Cork council merger plans to be axed but extension of city boundary recommended

Roger Hassenforder · 09-06-2017 07:21AM #1

So this is back in the public.
The latest report seems to have ixnayed the merger (Huzzah says the Corpo), but recommneds a significant expansion (boo says the Council).
Just as the city was against the Smiddy report, I cant see there being an appetite for this one in Co. Hall.

can we expect some compromise? City getting Douglas Grange, maybe as far as Ballincollig and Blarney. Bye bye green belt, but I cant see the Council handing over Little Island too easily.

(the last thread was closed due to slights on people- keep it civil)

BlinkingLights · 09-06-2017 08:54AM

I can see a situation where there's simply no change at all unless there's something pushed to extend the city boundaries.

It's all about money and control of budgets.

The original full merger was absolutely crazy though when you consider the size and rural nature or the county.

Reputable Rog · 09-06-2017 11:14AM

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

So this is back in the public.
The latest report seems to have ixnayed the merger (Huzzah says the Corpo), but recommneds a significant expansion (boo says the Council).
Just as the city was against the Smiddy report, I cant see there being an appetite for this one in Co. Hall.

can we expect some compromise? City getting Douglas Grange, maybe as far as Ballincollig and Blarney. Bye bye green belt, but I cant see the Council handing over Little Island too easily.

(the last thread was closed due to slights on people- keep it civil)

The CoCo offered Douglas and the North Environs, they are unlikely to offer anymore.
There will be an effective merger but with 2 separate bodies under one umbrella.

CHealy · 09-06-2017 03:47PM

About time some common sense came out of this, hopefully it goes through and Cork can continue to grow as an effective counter balance to Dublin.

Roger Hassenforder · 09-06-2017 04:14PM

Reputable Rog wrote: »

The CoCo offered Douglas and the North Environs, they are unlikely to offer anymore.
There will be an effective merger but with 2 separate bodies under one umbrella.

Can't see a merger now, but will probably see Douglas, (the parts in the county of) Grange, Blackpool, Bishopstown/Wilton areas being given over to the City, maybe even Monard.

DylanGLC · 09-06-2017 05:05PM

City boundary to almost double. Exact area not defined yet but it will add Douglas, Rochestown, Moneygourney before Carrigaline, the airport, Little Island, Ballingcollig and Blarney. May also include Fota? The county will retain Carrigaline, Passage West, Ringaskiddy and Monkstown, and the city council will need to compensate the county council financially (which is only fair). Supposedly Simon wants the boundary change to be implemented by this time next year and the rest of the stuff (change to mayor and so on) in 2019. Will increase the cities population from 125,000 to 225,000, and the county will lower to around 320,000. Overall, seems very positive and the best outcome for both councils

Over a merger (which was a ridiculous idea)

Roger Hassenforder · 09-06-2017 05:11PM

DylanGLC wrote: »

City boundary to almost double. Exact area not defined yet but it will add Douglas, Rochestown, Moneygourney before Carrigaline, the airport, Little Island, Ballingcollig and Blarney. May also include Fota? The county will retain Carrigaline, Passage West, Ringaskiddy and Monkstown, and the city council will need to compensate the county council financially (which is only fair). Supposedly Simon wants the boundary change to be implemented by this time next year and the rest of the stuff (change to mayor and so on) in 2019. Will increase the cities population from 125,000 to 225,000, and the county will lower to around 320,000. Overall, seems very positive and the best outcome for both councils Over a merger (which was a ridiculous idea)

worst outcome for the County!
they're not happy

KCAccidental · 09-06-2017 05:19PM

Some other interesting bits from the report. It recommends 5 year terms for a non-directly elected mayor. That should shake up the pact system in place in City Hall.

I assume the wards will have to be realigned or enlarged as there will be a few extra seats up for grabs, but with the higher population candidates would now need 1/3rd more votes to get elected than previously. Could be a bloodbath in the 2019 locals.

DylanGLC · 09-06-2017 06:20PM

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

worst outcome for the County!
they're not happy

I don't see how it is the worst outcome. It is still much bigger than the city council. Weren't they looking for a merger? It would've been odd having two council buildings then (both the County Hall and City Hall have strong history) - I couldn't see either wanting to give theirs up as the main 'headquarters'

Roger Hassenforder · 09-06-2017 07:17PM

DylanGLC wrote: »

I don't see how it is the worst outcome. It is still much bigger than the city council. Weren't they looking for a merger? It would've been odd having two council buildings then (both the County Hall and City Hall have strong history) - I couldn't see either wanting to give theirs up as the main 'headquarters'

AFAIR originally the county were willing to give the city some bit to expand into but city were asking for too much, so the talks broke down.
Then Alan Kelly got involved and said if they don't sort it out, he'll would and merge them as Tipperary, Limerick and Waterford were merged.
the resulting Smiddy report recommended the County "absorbing"
the City as a division to become a new superauthority. Worst result for city, and they are having none of it. Not the worst of possible outcomes for the county and they "welcomed" it which caused serious bad blood between the two.
Shelved a year or two, and now this new report, either to even the balance and assuage the city lads, but it's a serious kick in the nuts for the county. Their press release "doesn't accept" the report recommendations.

Reputable Rog · 09-06-2017 08:52PM

DylanGLC wrote: »

I don't see how it is the worst outcome. It is still much bigger than the city council. Weren't they looking for a merger? It would've been odd having two council buildings then (both the County Hall and City Hall have strong history) - I couldn't see either wanting to give theirs up as the main 'headquarters'

It's the worst outcome because they lose their largest town and 3 out of 4 Strategic employment areas and therefore most of the rates which go a long way toward servicing what is a large rural county without any large scale employment outside of Ringaskiddy.
Cork County will be reduced to a large version of Leitrim and there will be inevitable consequences for the areas outside of the new city.

Roger Hassenforder · 09-06-2017 09:54PM

Reputable Rog wrote: »

It's the worst outcome because they lose their largest town and 3 out of 4 Strategic employment areas and therefore most of the rates which go a long way toward servicing what is a large rural county without any large scale employment outside of Ringaskiddy.
Cork County will be reduced to a large version of Leitrim and there will be inevitable consequences for the areas outside of the new city.

good one!:D

BlinkingLights · 10-06-2017 08:07PM

Yeah roughly 10 Leitrims... That's not small by any standards

ongarboy · 12-06-2017 08:55AM

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/cork-city-population-to-expand-by-100-000-under-new-scheme-1.3116566
Details on which areas will be included/excluded in enlarged city below.
Cork city would expand to include Douglas, Donnybrook, Grange, Frankfield, Rochestown, Ballincollig, Tower, Blarney, Rathpeacon, Glanmire, Little Island, Carrigtwohill and Cork Airport but would not incorporate Passage West, Monkstown, Carrigaline or Ringaskiddy.

namloc1980 · 12-06-2017 09:20AM

County council moaning already. This will be totally diluted to appease the County.

pwurple · 12-06-2017 09:36AM

I must read that report later. At first glance, it seems to make no logical sense for places that are separated from the city by a green belt to be included. So I can see douglas, rochestown etc becoming city, yes yes, all reasonable.... but carrigtwohill in, and carrigline out? What's the logic there... City = East county? County = west cork?

Frostybrew · 12-06-2017 12:43PM

pwurple wrote: »

I must read that report later. At first glance, it seems to make no logical sense for places that are separated from the city by a green belt to be included. So I can see douglas, rochestown etc becoming city, yes yes, all reasonable.... but carrigtwohill in, and carrigline out? What's the logic there... City = East county? County = west cork?

Carrigtohill is separated from the rest of the cork urban area by a much smaller green belt, only a mile or so between Glounthaune and the edge of Carrigtohill. The green belt between Carrigaline and Cork is significant in comparison to other areas such as Glanmire or Ballincollig.

Eventually I can see the Cork metropolitan area consisting of two large urban areas, namely the city area and a harbour area consisting of Carrigaline, Ringaskiddy, Passage, Monkstown, Cobh, and the Crosshaven area. A third area may be centred on Midleton.

Patrick 1959 · 13-06-2017 08:07PM

County councilers called it a land grab that's a bit rich considering that the city did not get a boundary extension in over 52 years imagine that happening in Dublin. Where do these county councilers think the 100000 plus people on the outskirts of cork city came from? . The vast majority of them came from inner city cork or up from the country to work in the city. The industrial estates on the outskirts of the city were built there because there was no room to build them inside the city.

BlinkingLights · 13-06-2017 08:10PM

It's petty, just get on with it! In the medium term it will be much better for both the City and County that there's a solid urban centre in Cork.

Patrick 1959 · 13-06-2017 08:19PM

If one join metropolitan council was the best way for cork . Why has Dublin 4 councils .

BlinkingLights · 13-06-2017 09:27PM

They were proposing one council, which given the sheer physical size of County Cork would be like merging Dublin City with County Pale.

You'd have a city with a massive rural hinterland nearly half the size of Northern Ireland. It would have been a lousy deal for the city and for the county and produced an unworkable regional authority.

Soccarboy11 · 13-06-2017 10:20PM

Its kind of ridiculous really how the County Council maintain Bishopstown, Wilton areas etc. They are a 5 minute drive from the city, and the new Sarsfield road roundabout is always getting overgrown with weeds etc. Just past Togher then by the Supervalue is the city and everything is much better kept.

The County Council should be maintaining the countryside and villages around Cork, not suburbs of a city. Driving the wild atlantic way last year, Cork definitely had the worst kept route of them all. All the viewing points were totally overgrown and the roads were crap, drive up the country and there is heaps of a difference! That is what the county council should be focusing on.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo · 13-06-2017 11:12PM

The merging of the councils was an incredibly stupid idea. In reality Cork County Council should be split between east and west of the city. It's simply too big. Google Maps says there is 318 kilometers between Youghal and Goleen and Charleville. It's an absurdly large administrative area as it is.

There is way too much of the city that is not considered part of the city, parts of Douglas, Mayfield, Bishopstown fall outside the city, it is a really silly situation. Then you have the Airport, Little Island, Ballincollig and other places outside the city, when in every other measurable way they are most certainly part of the city.

And the thing is, population size can be a reason why companies from abroad might come here. How can the city thrive and prosper when it is effectively being run by two separate councils, with different agendas and goals.

The boundary needs to be extended as soon as possible or it will be to the massive detriment to Cork as a whole.

rebs23 · 14-06-2017 08:54AM

Can we please just get on with it now? Decision made, implement the decision. A new Cork City of 250,000, larger than the next 3 cities combined.

Reputable Rog · 14-06-2017 12:26PM

Can't see it happening to be honest. The county will fight it tooth and nail including high court if necessary.
The small print leaves the way open for a single executive and this will probably be the compromise.

14-06-2017 12:32PM

Patrick 1959 wrote: »

If one join metropolitan council was the best way for cork . Why has Dublin 4 councils .

Because the national government don't want a strong Dublin government.

mire · 14-06-2017 01:42PM

Reputable Rog wrote: »

Can't see it happening to be honest. The county will fight it tooth and nail including high court if necessary.
The small print leaves the way open for a single executive and this will probably be the compromise.

I'm not sure that it does? I think the report has very clear recommendations and the problem for the County is that the idea of a merger has been firmly rejected; the idea no longer (and never did) have any credibility.

What's interesting is that the County Council seem to be the only voice criticising the new report. The Chamber/IBEC/national politicians seem to accept it - and this will prove to be significant. And they are right.

Patrick 1959 · 14-06-2017 03:07PM

Douglas village road network has been neglected for decades in my view because the county council know that any boundary extension would bring it into city hands.little island traffic problem is the same trying to exit industrial parks heartbreaking. Forge hill Matthew hill same .the road network on the edges of the city boundary are nightmares for commuters.the line drawn for any city boundary extension should not cut through any urban areas . Leaving Passage Monkstown outside the new city boundary is creating new bottlenecks for the future.

BlinkingLights · 14-06-2017 03:52PM

Patrick 1959 wrote: »

Douglas village road network has been neglected for decades in my view because the county council know that any boundary extension would bring it into city hands.little island traffic problem is the same trying to exit industrial parks heartbreaking. Forge hill Matthew hill same .the road network on the edges of the city boundary are nightmares for commuters.the line drawn for any city boundary extension should not cut through any urban areas . Leaving Passage Monkstown outside the new city boundary is creating new bottlenecks for the future.

The huge omission is Carrigaline.

If they are going to keep that area as rural, they need to do something about ensuring a town that size has some kind of serious council representation or relaunch reformed town councils entirely.

Any infrastructural issues around the Cork Metro Area really need to be handled as a single project though. You can't have messing around with roads or other infrastructure like that.

namloc1980 · 14-06-2017 03:59PM

BlinkingLights wrote: »

The huge omission is Carrigaline.

If they are going to keep that area as rural, they need to do something about ensuring a town that size has some kind of serious council representation or relaunch reformed town councils entirely.

Any infrastructural issues around the Cork Metro Area really need to be handled as a single project though. You can't have messing around with roads or other infrastructure like that.

I know someone working out in County Hall and they got an email from management saying the Council totally disagrees with the report, that this is just the opening round in negotiations and that the final outcome will be very different. Guaranteed this will be completely diluted to appease the County. It's the way things always go

BlinkingLights · 14-06-2017 04:04PM

The annoying thing about this is that the general public be they in Cork City or County Cork are getting the worst outcome by this not going ahead.

All the in-fighting is essentially to appease an administrative empire.

What benefits the general public is having accountable public services, close to them. That's what an expansion of the City actually does.

Merging the two gives you a big wishy-washy unaccountable mess.

Ireland's track record on local government is very poor. It's all very badly structured and you tend to have centralisation of poet that is supposed to be devolved under a principle of subsidiarity (actually rehired under the EU treaties but ignored as a concept entirely in Ireland).

Town councils - scrapped rather than reformed. An utterly bizarre move and not replicated anywhere else in Europe. Most towns have a council / town hall. Then people wonder why towns here don't function well.

City Councils : Mergers with large rural counties pushed, effectively removing the concept of cities entirely.

Functions of councils? Many of them have either gone to national bodies like Irish Water etc etc or have been privatised.

It's like the Government / political system in general not only doesn't understand the purpose of local government but has gone out of its way to remove as much of it as humanly possible rather than making it a useful layer of democratic governance.

Roger Hassenforder · 14-06-2017 04:56PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

I know someone working out in County Hall and they got an email from management saying the Council totally disagrees with the report, that this is just the opening round in negotiations and that the final outcome will be very different. Guaranteed this will be completely diluted to appease the County. It's the way things always go

IMO this.

First report recommended County absorbing City. City having none of it.
Second report recommended significant City expansion. County having none of it.

Hopefully now that the tow of them are aware of possible outcomes neither want, it might encourage them to negotiate something they can both swallow.

BlinkingLights · 14-06-2017 05:21PM

City and County binding referendum would settle it.
Take the adminstrative bureaucracy internal politics out of the debate entirely.

This has to serve the people of Cork not just end up in a stupid argument between two bureaucracy.

KCAccidental · 14-06-2017 07:16PM

Coveney gone from Housing & Local Government.

Can see this festering for another few years.

Patrick 1959 · 16-06-2017 09:02AM

KCAccidental wrote: »

Coveney gone from Housing & Local Government.

Can see this festering for another few years.

You could be right on that. Status quo would suite the county council nicely just like it has for the last 52 years. They seem to forget that it's the city who made Corks population great only for that Cork would be another Mayo or Kerry i.e. Big county's with a few small towns.

D'Agger · 16-06-2017 10:35AM

I'm not going to claim to be in the know here, having only read scant reports on what's been recommended here.

But would I be right to say that the City taking in Douglas & Ballincollig in particular would be of huge benefit to the city? Given the housing situation, improvement of services from those 'boroughs' will be important for the sustained growth of the city.

From my reading of the reports & BlinkingLights post above - the City and County councils have rejected two proposals, because they seem to see-saw in terms of what covers what instead of striking a balance that's needed.

Blitzkrieger · 16-06-2017 10:40AM

mire wrote: »

What's interesting is that the County Council seem to be the only voice criticising the new report.

What about the residents of the expansion themselves? Nobody I've talked to wants to deal with the rates and insurance increases that will come with a city address.

CHealy · 16-06-2017 10:50AM

D'Agger wrote: »

I'm not going to claim to be in the know here, having only read scant reports on what's been recommended here.

But would I be right to say that the City taking in Douglas & Ballincollig in particular would be of huge benefit to the city? Given the housing situation, improvement of services from those 'boroughs' will be important for the sustained growth of the city.

From my reading of the reports & BlinkingLights post above - the City and County councils have rejected two proposals, because they seem to see-saw in terms of what covers what instead of striking a balance that's needed.

Thats exactly what it is.

In reality the city boundary should have been extended years and years ago, there is still parts of Douglas, Togher, Wilton, Bishopstown, Ballyvolane, Grange, Donnybrook, Mayfield, along with other areas part of the continuous urban area of the city not technically part of the city. It needs to be extended to include all these areas along with immediate suburbs such as Ballincollig, Glanmire, Little Island, Blarney and around the airport. The city itself is being done out of about 40% of its actual urban population. You look now and you see the official population at 120,000, small city in any country, you put in the real figure of over 200,000 and while still small, its a different beast all together.

No way will the County ever accept the new proposal, and no way will the City Council ever accept the previous proposal of a merge (rightly so), so I think the Government will have to step in here and just say whats what. The County will get their compensation, the City will have a true urban population to work with and expand, and off we go. Realistically this will go on and on for years and will eventually be forgotten about and we'll be left with the same boundary in 2030 as the one we had in 1965.

16-06-2017 11:01AM

I live in the county (and would after the city expansion) but the city needs to grow.

Ballincollig/Blarney/Douglas et al. use the city as their primary. There is no divide between City and Douglas/Ballincollig and hardly any with Blarney anymore. They are suburbs of the city and should be absorbed as such

BlinkingLights · 16-06-2017 11:03AM

The reality is that for the employees of city and county halls other than maybe being reassigned to a different council, their jobs won't change and might actually become more interesting as they'll be working either with a proper scale urban authority or a rural one with a real focus.

The resources won't actually change, the only thing that's preventing this is pretty empire building squabbling and that's undermining Cork in general.

Grow up and think or the greater good here !!

Patrick 1959 · 16-06-2017 12:27PM

Blitzkrieger wrote: »

What about the residents of the expansion themselves? Nobody I've talked to wants to deal with the rates and insurance increases that will come with a city address.

How much will the rates and insurance increase by?

namloc1980 · 16-06-2017 12:53PM

Patrick 1959 wrote: »

How much will the rates and insurance increase by?

Depends on circumstances but the rates are higher in the city than county. Plenty of businesses very nervous about joining the city council. Rates going up in an already tough business environment is the last thing they need.

BlinkingLights · 16-06-2017 01:11PM

Doesn't necessarily work like that though - you're expanding the rates base, so should be able to spread the costs a lot more.

As it stands it's grossly unfair that a small number of city rates payers are funding everything, while most of the property tax is flowing into the county, even though many of those people use city services, roads, amenities etc etc.

mire · 16-06-2017 01:40PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

Depends on circumstances but the rates are higher in the city than county. Plenty of businesses very nervous about joining the city council. Rates going up in an already tough business environment is the last thing they need.

Not true afaik, and the boundary extension will have no impact on rates. This idea that businesses are nervous about the boundary extension is news to me; hasn't appeared anywhere in the debate in the last 3 years. The commercial rate in the city is lower than the county (70.05 versus 74.75). The difference is based on the actual valuation of properties - and the differential will obviously remain - i.e. a valuation of a retail premises on Patrick street will be higher than one in Carrigtwohill. That argument is just not a real one. The only real opponents to this are Cork County Council - who have resisted any boundary reform for 52 years.

mire · 16-06-2017 01:41PM

BlinkingLights wrote: »

Doesn't necessarily work like that though - you're expanding the rates base, so should be able to spread the costs a lot more.

As it stands it's grossly unfair that a small number of city rates payers are funding everything, while most of the property tax is flowing into the county, even though many of those people use city services, roads, amenities etc etc.

The McKinnion report suggests that Cork city and suburbs subsidises rural Cork to about €35 million per annum....

Patrick 1959 · 16-06-2017 02:35PM

The biggest employers in Cork are based in the city i.e. hospitals,CIE,apple,office workers,shop workers even the county council office tower block is based in Cork City. Commuters crisscross Cork City at least twice daily (no part of Cork City is more than 2.5 miles from St Patrick Street ) mostly from the county areas either adjoining the City or within 5 to 12 mile radius. Cork City ratepayers are paying for the upkeep of roads streets parks etc which these commuters use . I'm from the innercity and am used to the sight of commuters cars parked for up 9 hours a day outside there homes.There is only 1 Park And Ride in Cork City .Cork County Council haven't built any on the outskirts of the City maybe they should be paying the city council 40 million a year to help with the upkeep of the City.

namloc1980 · 16-06-2017 03:02PM

mire wrote: »

Not true afaik, and the boundary extension will have no impact on rates. This idea that businesses are nervous about the boundary extension is news to me; hasn't appeared anywhere in the debate in the last 3 years. The commercial rate in the city is lower than the county (70.05 versus 74.75). The difference is based on the actual valuation of properties - and the differential will obviously remain - i.e. a valuation of a retail premises on Patrick street will be higher than one in Carrigtwohill. That argument is just not a real one. The only real opponents to this are Cork County Council - who have resisted any boundary reform for 52 years.

Your info is wrong or well out of date. The rate in the city is 74.98. It got hiked last year because of serious holes in the city budget. Hasn't been 70.05 in a long while.

Roger Hassenforder · 16-06-2017 08:08PM

Patrick 1959 wrote: »

The biggest employers in Cork are based in the city i.e. hospitals,CIE,apple,office workers,shop workers even the county council office tower block is based in Cork City. Commuters crisscross Cork City at least twice daily (no part of Cork City is more than 2.5 miles from St Patrick Street ) mostly from the county areas either adjoining the City or within 5 to 12 mile radius. Cork City ratepayers are paying for the upkeep of roads streets parks etc which these commuters use . I'm from the innercity and am used to the sight of commuters cars parked for up 9 hours a day outside there homes.There is only 1 Park And Ride in Cork City .Cork County Council haven't built any on the outskirts of the City maybe they should be paying the city council 40 million a year to help with the upkeep of the City.

a bit of a circular argument - the biggest employers in Cork City are the ones in eh in Cork City!

You're forgetting the number of people employed in Little Island, EMC, Ringaskiddy, Eli etc. With the exception of the colleges, the hospitals and Apple, most of the employment around the City could be arguably "low skill" work (and no disrespect to anyone working in a shop, I did it long enough). there is an argument these areas of Cork County bring more revenue to Cork, not to mind tourism attractions located in the County, serviced by hotels in the City. City than does Cork City itself. Cork County is one of the wealthiest local authorities.

there's a massive dockland area of Cork undeveloped. Why? inertia?
They're cribbing they've no place to expand. There's places within the City with plenty of development opportunity. City Council staf balloted for industrial action because their car park at Navigation house is being sold from under their ars3s. The Kinsale Rd. landfill amenity is an other example of their inertia and lack of forward thinking. Anyone doing business with both City and County Councils will report very different experiences.

It still makes no sense to have certain areas of the County not in the City, (Douglas etc.) they should be handed over. But to bring in the ones outside the green belt (Blarney, Carrigtohill and Ballincollig etc.) would result in one big sprawl like Dublin, which no one wants. An abject failure of sustainable planning.
I live in the city and would love if they do it differently in Cork, Higher density, better amenities and infrastructure. A Manhattan island boi!

Balmed Out · 16-06-2017 08:40PM

Patrick 1959 wrote: »

The biggest employers in Cork are based in the city i.e. hospitals,CIE,apple,office workers,shop workers even the county council office tower block is based in Cork City. Commuters crisscross Cork City at least twice daily (no part of Cork City is more than 2.5 miles from St Patrick Street ) mostly from the county areas either adjoining the City or within 5 to 12 mile radius. Cork City ratepayers are paying for the upkeep of roads streets parks etc which these commuters use . I'm from the innercity and am used to the sight of commuters cars parked for up 9 hours a day outside there homes.There is only 1 Park And Ride in Cork City .Cork County Council haven't built any on the outskirts of the City maybe they should be paying the city council 40 million a year to help with the upkeep of the City.

Ok I walked from various points on the mahon peninsula to Patricks street and even as the crow flies I refuse to believe this.

Patrick 1959 · 16-06-2017 10:08PM

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

a bit of a circular argument - the biggest employers in Cork City are the ones in eh in Cork City!

You're forgetting the number of people employed in Little Island, EMC, Ringaskiddy, Eli etc. With the exception of the colleges, the hospitals and Apple, most of the employment around the City could be arguably "low skill" work (and no disrespect to anyone working in a shop, I did it long enough). there is an argument these areas of Cork County bring more revenue to Cork, not to mind tourism attractions located in the County, serviced by hotels in the City. City than does Cork City itself. Cork County is one of the wealthiest local authorities.

there's a massive dockland area of Cork undeveloped. Why? inertia?
They're cribbing they've no place to expand. There's places within the City with plenty of development opportunity. City Council staf balloted for industrial action because their car park at Navigation house is being sold from under their ars3s. The Kinsale Rd. landfill amenity is an other example of their inertia and lack of forward thinking. Anyone doing business with both City and County Councils will report very different experiences.

It still makes no sense to have certain areas of the County not in the City, (Douglas etc.) they should be handed over. But to bring in the ones outside the green belt (Blarney, Carrigtohill and Ballincollig etc.) would result in one big sprawl like Dublin, which no one wants. An abject failure of sustainable planning.
I live in the city and would love if they do it differently in Cork, Higher density, better amenities and infrastructure. A Manhattan island boi!

Bankers,insurance brokers,stockbrokers,engineering consulting,1Albert Quay. People working in shops are also eye options,jewellers, and not just till workers. How many of the above work in the factory lines or as G.O in little island or Ringaskiddy . Yes there are professionals working there also but in far fewer numbers then the city.you say the City has plenty of places to expand where ? It's bursting out into the County.thats why we need an extension.The Docklands area is not undeveloped but being redeveloped a lot of it is Brown Field contamainated with chemicals, were also waiting for the Goverment to give the go ahead for the East Gate Bridge for major work to begin( 10,000 people exiting onto Albert Road from there new apartments = mayhem ) you mentioned kinsale Road what do you think you can build on a Dump? (Notting there must be 60 foot of rubbish buried there and enough metanegas to take half the city if it blew ) Don't know were your going with council workers voting for strike.Plain and simple Cork City with its 2.5 mile city radius needs a substantial boundary extension .

Patrick 1959 · 16-06-2017 10:30PM

Balmed Out wrote: »

Ok I walked from various points on the mahon peninsula to Patricks street and even as the crow flies I refuse to believe this.

Ok how miles is it ? City Center to Blackpool 25 minutes walk City Center to Ballaphane 25 minutes I've walked Mahon to City Center and to Greemount many times it 45 minutes. Don't refuse to believe just check it out and if iam out by a half mile on that route sorry . What about the rest of what I've written do you agree or are you just nitpicking?

Cork council merger plans to be axed but extension of city boundary recommended

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