land becomes available, should I?

massey265 · 14-06-2017 12:39AM #1

Looking for some advice, so there has come land available which I had notions on, not far from home Farm, around 8 to 9 miles away, it's good hill grazing land with ten acres off silage ground, the problem is they are in glas 3 and this silage ground has to be saved, it's too much for my needs, second problem is its only allowed for sheep grazing, I would rather it for cattle.. I would like to have it but with it being tied in glas for five years it doesn't suit my needs but don't want to miss out on it as I've first refusal on it and might not again.

AineM2013 · 14-06-2017 12:44AM

Yes I think you should. Five years is not all that long and I would look at it as an investment in your future. Good Luck

Kristopherus · 14-06-2017 12:45AM

Better regret you did,than you did'nt.

lakill Farm · 14-06-2017 10:14AM

can you sub lease it out for the 5 years at the consent of the owner

then when its out of the scheme its yours to do as you like

Mooooo · 14-06-2017 10:29AM

are you talking renting it or buying it?

croot · 14-06-2017 10:35AM

Glas3 is only starting. You could pull out before payment

massey265 · 14-06-2017 10:37AM

No he won't lease the entitlements so that would also put me off, can he change it to graze cattle on his glas plan?

It would be to rent moo,

blue5000 · 14-06-2017 11:15AM

Sounds a bit too complicated to me. Why would you take it on, comply with GLAS and still have to drive 8-10 miles to it?

_Brian · 14-06-2017 11:48AM

Would I be shot at mantioning "return on investment" ?

I mentioned that before and was told that ROI on land never makes sense, yet it will be bought by someone !

ganmo · 14-06-2017 12:57PM

what would happen if you were already in glas then bought more glas land?
would you receive both payments or would the max payment still apply?

anyway back to ops issue, by the sounds of it you wouldn't be buying to expand a current enterprise but start a sheep one which ya don't sound too enthusiastic about

zetor 4911 · 14-06-2017 01:30PM

massey265 wrote: »

Looking for some advice, so there has come land available which I had notions on, not far from home Farm, around 8 to 9 miles away, it's good hill grazing land with ten acres off silage ground, the problem is they are in glas 3 and this silage ground has to be saved, it's too much for my needs, second problem is its only allowed for sheep grazing, I would rather it for cattle.. I would like to have it but with it being tied in glas for five years it doesn't suit my needs but don't want to miss out on it as I've first refusal on it and might not again.

Are you planning taking over the GLAS contract if so that is not allowed. Can't change the GLAS action at this stage.

J.O. Farmer · 14-06-2017 06:07PM

zetor 4911 wrote: »

Are you planning taking over the GLAS contract if so that is not allowed. Can't change the GLAS action at this stage.

It sounds like the OP would be taking over the work of the GLAS contract but not the payment and paying rent for the privilege.

I really don't see why the OP would do it. It's an 8-10 mile drive to land with more restrictions than normal on land and it seems restrictions that don't suit the op. 5 years is a long time on leased land. Even if there's a 10 year lease half it will be spent in GLAS for someone else.

Bass Reeves · 14-06-2017 08:15PM

massey265 wrote: »

No he won't lease the entitlements so that would also put me off, can he change it to graze cattle on his glas plan?

It would be to rent moo,

I am trying to get the gist of this. Owner is holding onto the entitlements (maybe claiming them) it is in GLAS and he has put the silage ground into the low input meadow so it cannot be cut until July and then has to be saved for hay or turned 2-3 times. Is he holding onto the GLAS payment as well and the ANC payment????

And then he wants you to rent it or at least farm it to the GLAS specifications so he can claim the payments.

If my assumptions are correct I would not touch it with a twenty foot barge pole. He will do you no favours in 5 years time either.

50HX · 14-06-2017 08:38PM

agree with bass above

land that far away even if it top class stuff you have to have full control of it for what you suits your needs

that owner is trying to rub lard onto a pigs arse getting you to take with them conditions and he getting bps anc & glas

you have 1st refusal now but 5 years is a long time in one way and you might be the only one standing come then

i'd let it slide and hold tough

massey265 · 14-06-2017 08:57PM

Yeah great advise there, yous are spot on he is holding on to payments and it being in glas only makes it even more troublesome, I wouldn't be pushed on the hassle off putting sheep on it either, I know rent wouldn't be massive but it's hard to make a bob even when you get payments.

zetor 4911 · 14-06-2017 09:00PM

My understanding now is that the owner is going to declare the land on his BPS application draw his entitlements and GLAS but lease the land to Massey 265. Does he not know that by declaring the land on his BPS he is declaring that he is farming it he can't then turn around and lease it to someone else, this would be a false declaration which carry severe penalties. As per the advice given by other under no circumstances should anyone touch that land.

Bass Reeves · 14-06-2017 09:07PM

massey265 wrote: »

Yeah great advise there, yous are spot on he is holding on to payments and it being in glas only makes it even more troublesome, I wouldn't be pushed on the hassle off putting sheep on it either, I know rent wouldn't be massive but it's hard to make a bob even when you get payments.

TBH lads that rent land in such circumstances are f@@king it up for everyone. At a guess he is related to you but it is only a guess. He was cute enough to put it into GLAS and put the hay/silage ground into traditional meadow to maximize payments. I bet he has 5HA of low input grassland as well.

You would be a busy fool for the five years and when it came he do the same again if he can find a victim or look for a good lease payment. Let him off with it. At a guess he has 10+K in payments and wants you to fork out another 40+/acre. He be sitting at home on the bones of 300/week and maybe drawing the OAP as well.

longgonesilver · 14-06-2017 09:17PM

I would differ from the others slightly and say that maybe you should take it.

The question will then be how much will he give you to manage the land to these exacting standards so he can claim his payments.:D

massey265 · 14-06-2017 09:24PM

Notting gets past you bass, yous are saying everything that was making me questioning it, am a busy enough fool with out adding more, it's just a few months ago I lost my silage ground to which I guess is glas related to, and this just came along at the right time but it just doesn't make sense at the end off the day.

bogman_bass · 14-06-2017 10:00PM

Why would anybody take land that far from the home farm?

50HX · 14-06-2017 10:04PM

bogman_bass wrote: »

Why would anybody take land that far from the home farm?

know plenty that do it for silage, a good trailer and you'd bring 2 weeks of feed in bales from there in 2hours

Who2 · 14-06-2017 10:10PM

bogman_bass wrote: »

Why would anybody take land that far from the home farm?

i know lads taking ground 2-3 hrs away. Now in fairness some would be known for what they are like but there's a couple of genuine lads taking farms that distance away. Personally i think its crazy but there's plenty at it.

Bass Reeves · 14-06-2017 10:11PM

bogman_bass wrote: »

Why would anybody take land that far from the home farm?

The place I bought is about 10 miles maybe even a tad further from my house. I have it ten years ago and we intended to move there. It hasn;t got any nearer;)

blue5000 · 15-06-2017 10:58AM

massey265 wrote: »

Notting gets past you bass, yous are saying everything that was making me questioning it, am a busy enough fool with out adding more, it's just a few months ago I lost my silage ground to which I guess is glas related to, and this just came along at the right time but it just doesn't make sense at the end off the day.

Is a partnership an option?

massey265 · 15-06-2017 11:12AM

blue5000 wrote:

Is a partnership an option?

Not sure that would work, he only keeping the number off sheep for payments how would that be fair on me?

Bass Reeves · 15-06-2017 01:54PM

blue5000 wrote: »

Is a partnership an option?

When you are dealing with these type of guyes partnership is never an option. He will want all the payments plus a rental or its equivlent.

Username John · 15-06-2017 02:03PM

zetor 4911 wrote: »

My understanding now is that the owner is going to declare the land on his BPS application draw his entitlements and GLAS but lease the land to Massey 265. Does he not know that by declaring the land on his BPS he is declaring that he is farming it he can't then turn around and lease it to someone else, this would be a false declaration which carry severe penalties. As per the advice given by other under no circumstances should anyone touch that land.

Can you let land on an 11 month lease and still claim BPS on it?

I know this is different to what Massey might be getting into, as that sounds more like a long term lease...

Just wondering is all...

J.O. Farmer · 15-06-2017 06:13PM

Username John wrote: »

Can you let land on an 11 month lease and still claim BPS on it?

I know this is different to what Massey might be getting into, as that sounds more like a long term lease...

Just wondering is all...

I'd say it's being done however I think when you submit your bps payment application that you are declaring that you have use of the land for the year and are actively farming it.
I don't see how either of those conditions can apply if it's leased out to someone else.

tractorporn · 15-06-2017 08:32PM

Bass Reeves wrote:

When you are dealing with these type of guyes partnership is never an option. He will want all the payments plus a rental or its equivlent.

I can never understand why lads take land under these type of stipulations. If more lads refused to take land without the entitlements they would have nowhere else to go.

I tried for two pieces of ground this spring and both wanted to keep the entitlements. Even when I offered to to give half the value of the entitlements in the rent they still weren't happy so I left them to it.

kowtow · 15-06-2017 10:03PM

tractorporn wrote:

I tried for two pieces of ground this spring and both wanted to keep the entitlements. Even when I offered to to give half the value of the entitlements in the rent they still weren't happy so I left them to it.

I've heard of similar arrangements. Always assumed the entitlement value was paid as a lease fee and the entitlement taken on by the tenant?

Do people seriously attempt any other way? Surely it would be easy to pick up at inspections etc. ?

alps · 16-06-2017 10:34AM

J.O. Farmer wrote: »

I'd say it's being done however I think when you submit your bps payment application that you are declaring that you have use of the land for the year and are actively farming it.
I don't see how either of those conditions can apply if it's leased out to someone else.

As far as I'm aware, you declare that you will be farming the land for a period that includes the 31st if May...

That's grey, as it could mean just that day, but others take it to mean the period leading up to the 31st of May, or the period from 31st of May onwards...and leases do take place either side of this date...

land becomes available, should I?

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