'Dublin life is unsustainable' - meet the professionals who left for the Mid-West....

Comhrá · 16-07-2017 06:30PM #1

A somewhat rare and welcome positive feature on life in Limerick in today's Sunday Indo:

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/dublin-life-is-unsustainable-meet-the-professionals-who-left-for-the-midwest-to-enjoy-a-better-quality-of-life-35923655.html

seachto7 · 17-07-2017 10:02AM

Good article, but for many sectors, Limerick is still a non runner unfortunately. What I do, jobs only pop up from time to time, but that's the way it goes I guess...

It's not that I'm highly skilled either. Overall I'd agree with the article. I'm in Dublin currently, but won't settle here.

zulutango · 17-07-2017 11:31AM

Seems like an effort to sell Limerick as 'The Midwest', which is lamentable but also understandable. When I worked in Dublin I was amazed at how negative and skewed the impression people had of our city. In my own business we're short-staffed but there's little we can do to attract people to come here. They'd rather pay enormous rents and spend a long time commuting in Dublin than live in Limerick. We have a very big obstacle to overcome, imo.

Tabnabs · 17-07-2017 11:34AM

I commuted from my home town of Limerick to Dublin for almost three years on a weekly basis, travelling up early Monday mornings and back late Friday nights. For me it was unsustainable.

Well duh, how was that ever going to be sustainable?! He's living in cloud cuckoo land if he thinks that won't affect his health, his family life and his bank balance. They couldn't have picked a worse candidate for living and working in Dublin...

seachto7 · 17-07-2017 12:18PM

zulutango wrote: »

When I worked in Dublin I was amazed at how negative and skewed the impression people had of our city. In my own business we're short-staffed but there's little we can do to attract people to come here. They'd rather pay enormous rents and spend a long time commuting in Dublin than live in Limerick. We have a very big obstacle to overcome, imo.

I work in Dublin now, and there's no reference to Limerick ever at work. None of our business is based in Limerick. It's not on the radar. Nothing outside Dublin, in general, in the business I'm in, is on the radar, or else we're dealing with head offices in Dublin and that's it.

dominatinMC · 17-07-2017 01:12PM

seachto7 wrote: »

I work in Dublin now, and there's no reference to Limerick ever at work. None of our business is based in Limerick. It's not on the radar. Nothing outside Dublin, in general, in the business I'm in, is on the radar, or else we're dealing with head offices in Dublin and that's it.

Stating the obvious here, but Ireland being so dependent on Dublin is one of the biggest problems in modern Ireland, and is an indictment of previous government policies. The whole economy is just so Dublin-centric. Look at all the issues in Dublin; housing crisis, homelessness, traffic congestion, etc. I would argue that all these can be attributed to the fact that Dublin has reached (over)saturation point. There are too many people living and working there for the current infrastructure to manage. These problems are only going to excaberate with Brexit. The government should offer incentives to entice any prospective banks/financial institutions to relocate to Limerick/Cork/Galway, instead of Dublin. I know these cities may not seem as "attractive" compared to Dublin, but only through investment (in terms of people, as well as capital) will they become viable alternatives.

keane2097 · 17-07-2017 01:21PM

We made the move from Dublin to Limerick about three months ago for the lifestyle reasons mentioned in the article. Very happy with the decision so far.

John_Mc · 17-07-2017 01:22PM

Moved down to Limerick after 10 years in Dublin in February and it's ok, but not what that article is promising. Yes the commute is shorter every day, but so are the job opportunities. I did get one fairly easily when we moved down but there's less competition between employers so salaries are substantially lower.

Rent is a bit lower but it's not proportionate to the lower salaries and everything else besides rent costs the same so you're not better off.

Having done the move we're actually considering moving back up there, and the only thing stopping us is the fact that we would have family in Limerick to support us if we have children.

17-07-2017 01:35PM

Meet the professionals not from Dublin who left for the mid west........... "I commuted from my home town of Limerick to Dublin for almost three years on a weekly basis, travelling up early Monday mornings and back late Friday nights"

............

"Both my fiancé and I are originally from Kerry and were working in Dublin for eight years when we decided to leave Dublin to be closer to our families"

..........

"Daniel Smith, Professional Services Manager at Action Point moved back to Limerick after spending time in Australia during the recession in Ireland."

The heading isn't at all representative of the detail, people from area move back after years away, shocker :rolleyes:

I'm from Cork and work in Dublin at the moment. Plenty of work in Limerick in my game, I wouldn't consider moving there at all tbh unless I hooked up with a Limerick lady and was essentially mandated to

testaccount123 · 17-07-2017 02:12PM

Tabnabs wrote: »

Well duh, how was that ever going to be sustainable?! He's living in cloud cuckoo land if he thinks that won't affect his health, his family life and his bank balance. They couldn't have picked a worse candidate for living and working in Dublin...

What a stupid article. Of course commuting to Dublin from Limerick every day isn't sustainable.

keane2097 · 17-07-2017 02:14PM

testaccount123 wrote: »

What a stupid article. Of course commuting to Dublin from Limerick every day isn't sustainable.

He was travelling to Dublin on Monday and back to Limerick on Friday, if you read it closely.

seachto7 · 17-07-2017 02:50PM

dominatinMC wrote: »

Stating the obvious here, but Ireland being so dependent on Dublin is one of the biggest problems in modern Ireland, and is an indictment of previous government policies.

Do you think it's just down to the size of Ireland and the thin spread of people once you get out of Dublin that leads to some of this?

If we were the size of Belgium, would we have the same problem. I guess there would be more of a concentrated population, so it would be a very different scenario.

Imagine it on a grander scale. Australia. Fair to say that it's all weighted towards Sydney? Maybe that's a bad example! Is it the same in any big country though?

I agree though. Cork or Galway should be promoted long term as stronger business hubs to entice people away from Dublin.

Or maybe Athlone, somewhere in the midlands.

17-07-2017 02:52PM

testaccount123 wrote: »

What a stupid article. Of course commuting to Dublin from Limerick every day isn't sustainable.

Depends surely? There's plenty who get a bus/train from 7am onwards to get to Dublin. There's bits of "Dublin" that could be driven in that time.

myshirt · 17-07-2017 02:55PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Depends surely? There's plenty who get a bus/train from 7am onwards to get to Dublin. There's bits of "Dublin" that could be driven in that time.

I think you lads are in for a shock when you find out the amount of people doing a daily commute. Because people are doing it. Look at Dublin Coach and Irish Rail at 6a.m.

I myself was doing it for 2 years, 3 days a week, but was driving.

17-07-2017 02:58PM

myshirt wrote: »

I think you lads are in for a shock when you find out the amount of people doing a daily commute. Because people are doing it. Look at Dublin Coach and Irish Rail at 6a.m.

I myself was doing it for 2 years, 3 days a week, but was driving.

I did a 7am bus for college on and off for a long time. Pain in the arse and wouldn't be up for it again but I saw the same people at the end as when I started so I wouldn't have thought a 2 hour commute would be "unsustainable" for plenty.

testaccount123 · 17-07-2017 02:59PM

myshirt wrote: »

I think you lads are in for a shock when you find out the amount of people doing a daily commute. Because people are doing it. Look at Dublin Coach and Irish Rail at 6a.m.

I myself was doing it for 2 years, 3 days a week, but was driving.

Who is surprised? The whole country is full of people who felt they absolutely had to buy a house, bought an 'affordable' one somewhere hours away from where the work is and burned away their time and money commuting for 20+ hours a week. Now we get to listen to them moaning in the national press every few months.

17-07-2017 03:03PM

Deleted User wrote: »

................. I wouldn't have thought a 2 hour commute would be "unsustainable" for plenty.

4 hours a day commuting?
That's unsustainable if you are sane.
It takes me 45 mins to drive to work at the moment, it's easy driving though, only about 35kms. Still a pain in the arse

kilburn · 17-07-2017 03:12PM

Only in the Limerick forum can we whinge about a positive article for the City

the-island-man · 17-07-2017 03:12PM

Changing the capital and the place of government somewhere else such as Athlone could help in counterbalancing Dublin.

There's plenty of examples of other countries where the economic powerhouse is not the capital:
New Zealand
Canada
Australia
USA
Switzerland
Brazil

17-07-2017 03:12PM

Augeo wrote: »

4 hours a day commuting?
That's unsustainable if you are sane.
It takes me 45 mins to drive to work at the moment, it's easy driving though, only about 35kms. Still a pain in the arse

Plenty doing it and doing it long-term. Wouldn't be for me though.

seachto7 · 17-07-2017 03:24PM

I know a few commuting to Dublin. One did it because they got a free train every day. Not sure if they still do it.
Another can't move due to mortgage etc, so is contracting in Dublin.

Mc Love · 17-07-2017 03:40PM

Augeo wrote: »

4 hours a day commuting?
That's unsustainable if you are sane.
It takes me 45 mins to drive to work at the moment, it's easy driving though, only about 35kms. Still a pain in the arse

I know folks in London that do the same if not more (4 hours commuting) It's hard on them especially with kids but they have more affordable housing and better opportunities for their kids. They'd love to move here but for the lack of jobs. When I was unemployed for a while, Dublin has all of the jobs I was interested in except for a few in Cork, and even less in Limerick.

dominatinMC · 17-07-2017 04:14PM

Mc Love wrote: »

I know folks in London that do the same if not more (4 hours commuting) It's hard on them especially with kids but they have more affordable housing and better opportunities for their kids. They'd love to move here but for the lack of jobs. When I was unemployed for a while, Dublin has all of the jobs I was interested in except for a few in Cork, and even less in Limerick.

Isn't that the issue though; that they HAVE TO commute those 4 hours? Crazy stuff IMO, if government policies distributed investment more equally (locate more companies outside of the capital), then there would be a greater choice of jobs in the other cities and, thus, people would have a choice to move.

FWIW, I would gladly take a pay-cut/less senior job and move to a smaller city, if I was in a scenario where I had to commute 4 hours a day to work. More to life than a good salary.

Mc Love · 17-07-2017 04:24PM

dominatinMC wrote: »

Isn't that the issue though; that they HAVE TO commute those 4 hours? Crazy stuff IMO, if government policies distributed investment more equally (locate more companies outside of the capital), then there would be a greater choice of jobs in the other cities and, thus, people would have a choice to move.

FWIW, I would gladly take a pay-cut/less senior job and move to a smaller city, if I was in a scenario where I had to commute 4 hours a day to work. More to life than a good salary.

Exactly, why I chose to remain in Limerick. I have a family and house here, and all my relatives are close by. Takes me about 10 mins to get to work max 15-20 mins.

Idbatterim · 17-07-2017 04:25PM

Stating the obvious here, but Ireland being so dependent on Dublin is one of the biggest problems in modern Ireland, and is an indictment of previous government policies. The whole economy is just so Dublin-centric. Look at all the issues in Dublin; housing crisis, homelessness, traffic congestion, etc. I would argue that all these can be attributed to the fact that Dublin has reached (over)saturation point. There are too many people living and working there for the current infrastructure to manage. These problems are only going to excaberate with Brexit. The government should offer incentives to entice any prospective banks/financial institutions to relocate to Limerick/Cork/Galway, instead of Dublin. I know these cities may not seem as "attractive" compared to Dublin, but only through investment (in terms of people, as well as capital) will they become viable alternatives.

but there are simple solutions, like actually not starving Dublin of infrastructure funding. Like allowing reasonable densities! The place isn't bloody hong kong! Dublin is our only city of any scale, which is why the vast majority of companies and people want to live here...

um7y1h83ge06nx · 17-07-2017 05:48PM

I love Limerick, been here for 16 years now, ever since I started college.

The property market is crazily different. My brother very recently bought a fairly old terraced house, 920sq ft in a decent area of North Dublin. Decent place, sound structurally, would need about 10k to spruce it up and improve the finishing including a new kitchen.

2 years ago I bought a modern 3200sq ft detached 2 storey on 3/4 of an acre within 15 minutes of the city. Turn key condition finished to an extremely high standard with expensive finishing - granite in kitchen and all bathrooms, top end appliances etc. Only paid 3k more for that than the brother did for his.

Obvious location, location but a big difference.

Sure I could earn more in Dublin but I love the lifestyle here. Living in the country but could be in town ordering a pint in 20 minutes.

jackofalltrades · 17-07-2017 07:02PM

dominatinMC wrote: »

Crazy stuff IMO, if government policies distributed investment more equally (locate more companies outside of the capital), then there would be a greater choice of jobs in the other cities and, thus, people would have a choice to move.

But what policies can the government bring in to locate more companies outside of Dublin?
Short of forcing companies to setup in regional towns and cities, there's not really a lot you can do.

adaminho · 17-07-2017 08:57PM

Idbatterim wrote: »

but there are simple solutions, like actually not starving Dublin of infrastructure funding. Like allowing reasonable densities! The place isn't bloody hong kong! Dublin is our only city of any scale, which is why the vast majority of companies and people want to live here...

I'm sorry but Dublin isn't starved of infrastructure funding. You have two luas lines (about to be joined) a Dart and motorways to pretty any part of the country! Meanwhile the second and third largest cities in the country are linked by what can only described as a glorified country road!

Cookiemunster · 17-07-2017 09:24PM

adaminho wrote: »

I'm sorry but Dublin isn't starved of infrastructure funding. You have two luas lines (about to be joined) a Dart and motorways to pretty any part of the country! Meanwhile the second and third largest cities in the country are linked by what can only described as a glorified country road!

Actually the whole country is being starved of infrastructure funding. Dublin is choking and badly needs Metro North and DART underground amongst other projects. There is money being spent outside of Dublin with the M17/18, the N25 New Ross bypass and the M11 Gorey to Enniscorthy. However the rest of the country is also badly in need of other infrastructure such as the M20, Corks Northern ring road and Galways bypass.
The issue is that FG don't like spending on Infrastructure anywhere.

mishkashubaly · 17-07-2017 09:50PM

adaminho wrote: »

I'm sorry but Dublin isn't starved of infrastructure funding. You have two luas lines (about to be joined) a Dart and motorways to pretty any part of the country! Meanwhile the second and third largest cities in the country are linked by what can only described as a glorified country road!

It is for it's population. The Dart and Luas serve small catchment areas, for a start. All approaches to the city are gridlocked morning and evening, M50 is at capacity, busses to outer suburbs (where luas/dart don't serve) frequently pass people at stops in the suburbs full in the mornings and depart the city terminus full in the evenings and take an age due to said traffic and zero bus priority infrastructure.

Metro/underground was needed a decade ago, never-mind now, but will never be funded unless Dublin gets autonomy on how to spend money it generates. Gov will spunk money on more motorways in the back arse of nowhere no problem though.

Limerick's population is less than Tallaght ffs, ye are a city in name only.

jjjd · 17-07-2017 10:58PM

jackofalltrades wrote: »

But what policies can the government bring in to locate more companies outside of Dublin?
Short of forcing companies to setup in regional towns and cities, there's not really a lot you can do.

It just needs good marketing by the government and the IDA. No need to force companies to set up in the area if that's not what they want to do. Just look at what the Wild Atlantic Way had done for tourism in this country. The scenery was always there, it just wasn't marketed in the right way, both domestically and internationally. The very same could be done with the Midwest, a good marketing campaign both here and abroad may make companies choose to locate in the Midwest.

jjjd · 17-07-2017 11:21PM

Augeo wrote: »

Meet the professionals not from Dublin who left for the mid west........... "I commuted from my home town of Limerick to Dublin for almost three years on a weekly basis, travelling up early Monday mornings and back late Friday nights"

............

"Both my fiancé and I are originally from Kerry and were working in Dublin for eight years when we decided to leave Dublin to be closer to our families"

..........

"Daniel Smith, Professional Services Manager at Action Point moved back to Limerick after spending time in Australia during the recession in Ireland."

The heading isn't at all representative of the detail, people from area move back after years away, shocker :rolleyes:

I'm from Cork and work in Dublin at the moment. Plenty of work in Limerick in my game, I wouldn't consider moving there at all tbh unless I hooked up with a Limerick lady and was essentially mandated to

Just out of curiosity, could you give the reasons why you wouldn't consider moving to the Midwest (apart from the lazy stereotypes please)? How well do you know the region that you could make a sweeping statement like that?

testaccount123 · 17-07-2017 11:29PM

jjjd wrote: »

It just needs good marketing by the government and the IDA.

It doesnt just need good marketing, a city needs the things which attracts young educated workforces to move there. Dublin struggles with this issue, nevermind Limerick.

jjjd · 17-07-2017 11:44PM

testaccount123 wrote: »

It doesnt just need good marketing, a city needs the things which attracts young educated workforces to move there. Dublin struggles with this issue, nevermind Limerick.

Cheaper housing, cheaper childcare, less traffic congestion, shorter commutes and a better work-life balance are a good start to have over Dublin though. A good marketing campaign can bring all these things together that could make a young educated workforce want to live in the region.

panda100 · 18-07-2017 08:13AM

I love living in Limerick for all the reasons outlined in the article and on this thread. I am renting a lovely apartment in the heart of the city something I could never afford in Dublin. I have a 5 minute walk to work. My sister had a new baby yesterday and I was able to walk to the maternity hospital in 10 minutes after work. Lots of great amenities close by and close enough to Dublin and Cork for shopping and night outs.

One issue I find with living in Limerick is I find it very clique-ish both professionally and personally. I have wanted to work for the company I currently work with as soon as I graduated. I waited three years doing other jobs in Dublin until a position became available. I went for it and got it. I say they were sick of me talking about how much I want to move back to Limerick so I was lucky to be offered a position down here with them about 5 years ago. This role in Limerick wasn't publicly advertised.
About a year ago I realised that there really wasn't any room for me to grow or develop anymore so i went for a new job with a new company in Dublin which I got. About two months after that I got a phone call from a contact in Limerick offering me a new role (wasn't publicly advertised), so back down I came. Since I've moved here none of our companies roles in Limerick have been advertised. I work in the health/social care/social justice sector and many of the good positions available are advertised by word of mouth or who you know.

When I worked in Dublin I was surrounded by hugely talented and passionate people who deserved the positions they were in. I can't say I find the same for Limerick and am often left scratching my head as to how certain individuals have got so far in their careers as they have.

John_Mc · 18-07-2017 08:38AM

mishkashubaly wrote: »

Metro/underground was needed a decade ago, never-mind now, but will never be funded unless Dublin gets autonomy on how to spend money it generates. Gov will spunk money on more motorways in the back arse of nowhere no problem though.

Limerick's population is less than Tallaght ffs, ye are a city in name only.

The M20 motorway would be connecting Cork, Limerick and Galway all together by motorway. It might be "in the back arse of nowhere" according to those in the pale but it will serve far far more people than the population of Tallaght.

Typical Dubliner attitude on display :rolleyes:

zetalambda · 18-07-2017 09:09AM

mishkashubaly wrote: »

It is for it's population. The Dart and Luas serve small catchment areas, for a start. All approaches to the city are gridlocked morning and evening, M50 is at capacity, busses to outer suburbs (where luas/dart don't serve) frequently pass people at stops in the suburbs full in the mornings and depart the city terminus full in the evenings and take an age due to said traffic and zero bus priority infrastructure.

Metro/underground was needed a decade ago, never-mind now, but will never be funded unless Dublin gets autonomy on how to spend money it generates. Gov will spunk money on more motorways in the back arse of nowhere no problem though.

Limerick's population is less than Tallaght ffs, ye are a city in name only.

Dublin doesn't need a metro...it's the smallest capital city in Europe

seachto7 · 18-07-2017 09:09AM

mishkashubaly wrote: »

It is for it's population. The Dart and Luas serve small catchment areas, for a start. All approaches to the city are gridlocked morning and evening, M50 is at capacity, busses to outer suburbs (where luas/dart don't serve) frequently pass people at stops in the suburbs full in the mornings and depart the city terminus full in the evenings and take an age due to said traffic and zero bus priority infrastructure.

Metro/underground was needed a decade ago, never-mind now, but will never be funded unless Dublin gets autonomy on how to spend money it generates. Gov will spunk money on more motorways in the back arse of nowhere no problem though.

Limerick's population is less than Tallaght ffs, ye are a city in name only.

Don't be complaining about the roads when you're on your weekend break to "the back arse of nowhere"

Balf · 18-07-2017 09:22AM

testaccount123 wrote: »

It doesnt just need good marketing, a city needs the things which attracts young educated workforces to move there. Dublin struggles with this issue, nevermind Limerick.

I think this is a more insightful comment. The regional cities need to develop - and have the capacity to develop.

I think the OP article actually frames the issue in a very negative light - starting with this strange proposition that life in Dublin must be so awful that anything must be better.

John_Mc wrote: »

The M20 motorway would be connecting Cork, Limerick and Galway all together by motorway.

I don't see what connecting the regional cities will achieve, without some kind of coherent idea of how it contributes to the cities' development.

At worst, the M20 could simply encourage the kind of sprawl that has undermined all the cities, and the regional cities in particular. The starting point is testaccount123's, which is developing a positive urban life within the city.

The Specialist · 18-07-2017 09:44AM

mishkashubaly wrote: »

Metro/underground was needed a decade ago, never-mind now, but will never be funded unless Dublin gets autonomy on how to spend money it generates. Gov will spunk money on more motorways in the back arse of nowhere no problem though.

Limerick's population is less than Tallaght ffs, ye are a city in name only.

Metro/Underground can go and ****..the M20 is needed much more than another fancy transport system for Dublin. As for autonomy on how ye spend the money, lets pull every cent that the rest of Ireland generates and see how well ye snobby clowns survive then. Typical dub - full of your own **** and self importance.

18-07-2017 09:48AM

The Specialist wrote: »

Metro/Underground can go and ****..the M20 is needed much more than another fancy transport system for Dublin. As for autonomy on how ye spend the money, lets pull every cent that the rest of Ireland generates and see how well ye snobby clowns survive then. Typical dub - full of your own **** and self importance.

LOL.

L.T.P. · 18-07-2017 10:00AM

panda100 wrote: »

I love living in Limerick for all the reasons outlined in the article and on this thread. I am renting a lovely apartment in the heart of the city something I could never afford in Dublin. I have a 5 minute walk to work. My sister had a new baby yesterday and I was able to walk to the maternity hospital in 10 minutes after work. Lots of great amenities close by and close enough to Dublin and Cork for shopping and night outs.

One issue I find with living in Limerick is I find it very clique-ish both professionally and personally. I have wanted to work for the company I currently work with as soon as I graduated. I waited three years doing other jobs in Dublin until a position became available. I went for it and got it. I say they were sick of me talking about how much I want to move back to Limerick so I was lucky to be offered a position down here with them about 5 years ago. This role in Limerick wasn't publicly advertised.
About a year ago I realised that there really wasn't any room for me to grow or develop anymore so i went for a new job with a new company in Dublin which I got. About two months after that I got a phone call from a contact in Limerick offering me a new role (wasn't publicly advertised), so back down I came. Since I've moved here none of our companies roles in Limerick have been advertised. I work in the health/social care/social justice sector and many of the good positions available are advertised by word of mouth or who you know.

When I worked in Dublin I was surrounded by hugely talented and passionate people who deserved the positions they were in. I can't say I find the same for Limerick and am often left scratching my head as to how certain individuals have got so far in their careers as they have.

Often they have gotten these positions solely based on who they know. Drives me mad :mad::mad::mad::mad:

testaccount123 · 18-07-2017 10:15AM

The Specialist wrote: »

Metro/Underground can go and ****..the M20 is needed much more than another fancy transport system for Dublin. As for autonomy on how ye spend the money, lets pull every cent that the rest of Ireland generates and see how well ye snobby clowns survive then. Typical dub - full of your own **** and self importance.

Dublin would be better off if it didn't have to fund the regions...

Can someone less angry explain what a motorway between Cork and Limerick is supposed to be achieving? A link to Shannon airport is it?

I was in Limerick with work last week, it was the first time I'd really ever been. The city was much nicer than I expected although everything (bar the pretty decent pub scene) seemed to just close at 6pm. I would say the planning focus should be on developing the city as an urban hub to attract people. Not everyone is a 30 something suburbanite with 2.4 kids, 2 cars and no interests outside a visit to the local park. People are not going to be attracted to Limerick because of cheap child care and short commutes if they already live in a city centre and have no children.

seachto7 · 18-07-2017 10:16AM

You think that jobs in Dublin aren't down to "who you know" either? Ok, not all, but to think it doesn't go on anywhere else in Ireland is silly...

John_Mc · 18-07-2017 10:18AM

testaccount123 wrote: »

Dublin would be better off if it didn't have to fund the regions...

Can someone less angry explain what a motorway between Cork and Limerick is supposed to be achieving? A link to Shannon airport is it?

http://www.limerickchamber.ie/red-c-survey-m20-between-limerick-and-cork-will-enhance-economic-linkages-safety-and-reduce-congestion/

http://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/Businesses-tell-of-economic-necessity-behind-building-M20-to-Limerick-509681c4-1953-4a91-9bf7-24d925e667b9-ds

18-07-2017 10:35AM

jjjd wrote: »

[/B]
Just out of curiosity, could you give the reasons why you wouldn't consider moving to the Midwest (apart from the lazy stereotypes please)? How well do you know the region that you could make a sweeping statement like that?

I'm sorry? What did I say to bring that comment about?

Anyway, I was a rep years ago. Covering Munster, had 5 or 6 key accounts in Limerick. Spent quite a bit of my week there.
Wages are quite frankly brutal compared to Cork or Dublin, that's the primary reason. Secondary reason would be the actual city is tiny and much of it is rundown.

How is saying "I wouldn't consider moving there" a sweeping statement? Would you move to Dublin? Cork? Belfast? If no do you think the natives would get offended? NOPE

testaccount123 · 18-07-2017 10:42AM

In order to facilitate growth across Munster and the wider Atlantic Corridor, the cities of Cork and Limerick must be connected with a motorway fit for purpose to meet increasing traffic volumes from transport heavy industries along the M20 corridor and to enable new economic expansion

This is fairly confusing. What are these transport heavy industries they are looking to encourage?

Surely the better plan is to build density within the cities, have people live and work in them, use public transport, cycling and walking within them, encouraging a lively city with plenty of amenities for all. After which you can start encourage more of your Ubers and other knowledge economy based businesses in.

Instead the plan appears to be to actively pursue the kind of sprawl that causes so many issues for Dublin.

ifElseThen · 18-07-2017 10:50AM

They could decentralise by offering tax incentives for businesses to encourage remote working where applicable.

If commuters could could do 2 days a week from home it would make their lives easier and the three day commute a bit more tolerable.

Rural towns might decline less, takes the pressure of Dublin housing, office space etc.

Sebastian Dangerfield · 18-07-2017 10:58AM

Dublin life is not unsustainable at all, but it is higher maintainence. I left limerick 15 years ago because there were no jobs. Northern Trust have changed that for me potentially but I wouldnt consider moving back for a second, I love it in Dublin and can afford it. My Mrs would probably disagree on some counts, as its the difference between her having to work or be able to stay home with the kids.

keane2097 · 18-07-2017 11:07AM

testaccount123 wrote: »

This is fairly confusing. What are these transport heavy industries they are looking to encourage?

Surely the better plan is to build density within the cities, have people live and work in them, use public transport, cycling and walking within them, encouraging a lively city with plenty of amenities for all. After which you can start encourage more of your Ubers and other knowledge economy based businesses in.

Instead the plan appears to be to actively pursue the kind of sprawl that causes so many issues for Dublin.

Limerick is in the midst of redeveloping the city centre already. Several large scale developments in planning and post-planning stages, city centre being redeveloped to be more amenable to pedestrians, cyclists and PT etc.

As for the M20, you can read the detailed socio-economic impact scheme here:

https://static.rasset.ie/documents/news/m20-executive-summary-june-2017.pdf

Some highlights:

Key Findings
The assessment highlights the following key benefits that would arise from completion of the M20 Cork to Limerick Motorway scheme:

> The current N20 is under significant capacity constraints due to the recent growth in traffic volumes. Several locations on the current N20 have seen traffic levels at over 120% of capacity in 2017.

> Development of the M20 would provide a Blarney to Patrickswell journey time of approximately 47 minutes.

> The M20 scheme would prevent approximately 118 accidents per annum, which could result in an annual monetary saving of €12.4 million.

> These transport benefits would also underpin the competitiveness of the South-West and Mid-West Regions, through enhancing internal and external connectivity, and improving productivity.

> The M20 would facilitate the development of a Cork-Limerick ‘twin-city’ region, which would provide a complement to Dublin in the context of the National Planning Framework, and the wider Mid-West and SouthWest
Regions (including Kerry) and the Atlantic Corridor.

> The M20 scheme would provide enhanced labour market connectivity for the 273,000 people in the wider catchment’s labour force. The motorway would increase the labour force within a 45-minute commute of
major employment centres by an estimated 23% to 243,000 people.

> The M20’s role in enhancing the environment for FDI and indigenous investment has the potential to support an estimated additional 4,000-5,400 direct jobs in the region. In gross terms excluding displacement impacts, these additional direct jobs could provide an annual gross exchequer impact of up to €128 million, depending on the nature of investment attracted.

> The M20 would deliver improved capacity to serve the external trading and connectivity requirements of businesses and tourism in the South-West Region, including through expanding the catchment areas of Cork and Shannon Airports, and the major ports of Cork and Shannon Foynes.

> The scheme would increase the accessibility of the wider South-West and Mid-West Regions for overseas and domestic tourism visitors.

> The M20 would deliver social and community benefits, including reduced stress and improved quality of life for commuters, and enhancing employment opportunities for residents in more remote locations.

Balf · 18-07-2017 11:26AM

keane2097 wrote: »

Limerick is in the midst of redeveloping the city centre already. Several large scale developments in planning and post-planning stages, city centre being redeveloped to be more amenable to pedestrians, cyclists and PT etc.

As for the M20, you can read the detailed socio-economic impact scheme here:

https://static.rasset.ie/documents/news/m20-executive-summary-june-2017.pdf

Some highlights:

I know the M20 has become almost a symbolic project, so it's hard to look at it dispassionately (particularly as the N20 just isn't a good road.)

However, I still find that CBA reads more like an advocacy case than an analysis. For instance, when they say "expanding the catchment areas of Cork and Shannon Airports", what does that actually mean? Presumably, it would make Cork Airport more accessible to people who use Shannon and Shannon Airport more accessible to people who use Cork. There might be some hope, in that, of Shannon attracting some Cork-based business from Dublin.

But I can't really see anything in it for Cork Airport - which I'm not saying is a problem. Just if they mean that the road might create a stronger airport in Shannon, at the expense of Cork Airport but to the benefit of both the MidWest and the South, I'd prefer they said that more plainly.

However, the main thrust of the case seems to be the "spreading out" kind of vision, which hasn't served the country well. "Spreading out" favours Dublin - and partly explains why Galway Airport no longer has scheduled services.

'Dublin life is unsustainable' - meet the professionals who left for the Mid-West....

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