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Will Ireland's public transport system be able to handle the Rugby World Cup in 2023?

  • 26-04-2016 09:34AM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,697 ✭✭✭


    With South Africa being blocked internally from making a bid, it's looking more likely Ireland will get the rugby world cup in 2023. In 2019 the standard will be set in terms of public transport at a world cup by Japan, who have fast, extensive, efficient, frequent and integrated rail network.

    We on the otherhand have poor public transport links between all the various potential venues. We don't have a rail link to the airport. I know New Zealand managed, despite having appalling public transport, but Ireland will attract far more visitors because we are located in Europe. How on earth is our third world public transport system going to manage an event of this magnitude?


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    What do you forsee the problem to be? 2 or 3 matches a day in the whole country early on, less at the end when the important matches are on.

    Galway, Limerick,Cork Belfast, Dublin
    What issues with PT would be there that aren't already happening on big sports days?

    Killarney - deals with loads of tourists/big matches


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,697 ✭✭✭Chivito550


    What do you forsee the problem to be? 2 or 3 matches a day in the whole country early on, less at the end when the important matches are on.

    Galway, Limerick,Cork Belfast, Dublin
    What issues with PT would be there that aren't already happening on big sports days?

    Killarney - deals with loads of tourists/big matches

    You can't compare GAA matches to a World Cup. For those games the vast majority have access to a car and will drive to the games, and drive home. For the World Cup there will be people from all over the rugby playing world, many who will be visiting for an extended period of time. They won't all have cars to drive themselves from Cork to Castlebar. When I go abroad to big sporting events, I rely heavily on public transport to get me to the event, and to get me around the country the event is taking place in (if I am making a holiday out of it). Most people from abroad will be doing likewise here.

    And think about the amount of people coming through the airports. All these people relying on crap bus services to get out of the airport. Laughable.

    Ireland 2023 will be a real step back in time after seeing what Japan 2019 has to offer.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,764 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    Theres about 6 days between each countries games, getting from Cork to Castlebar won't be a problem.

    Theres no big issue for fans who are staying for a few games, every prospective journey is do-able. From my own experience at these tourneys its normal to expect that one day between games will be 'moving day', whether it takes 5 hours or 9 hours isn't really an issue, its a lost day anyway. But there is a reasonable train service and/or a good bus network between the venue towns.

    What fans definitely won't be able to do is base themselves in one big city and travel up and down to provincial venues on the day of the game, the way London based fans did for RWC2015. (though this wasn't without problems as you might have seen).

    The lack of airport rail is annoying alright. But you know, Rio De Janeiro airport is much the same and they managed to host an even bigger world cup.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    What's the public transport like getting from Bordeaux to Lens? Longer or shorter than the train from Cork to Castlebar?

    I'd imagine there won't be many matches scheduled with teams having to move about that much.

    You're correct to state NZ managed and that's who to compare with not Japan.

    Maybe you could outline the issues the Portugese had with the uefa cup final in Landsdowne road? just to give an international flavour to the PT difficulties.

    How many people are you expecting to visit? If you're staying for a while in Ireland, a car is a worthwhile expense.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,723 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    A lot of people will come on packages and will be bussed from hotels to matches, anyone travelling independently will probably be able to afford taxis. I don't foresee any problem, nor do I expect anyone but a complete idiot to expect bullet trains and an extensive underground railway system similar to what they found in Japan in 2019 when they land in Ireland in 2023.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 620 ✭✭✭LeChienMefiant


    Cardiff isn't exactly blessed with public transport either, they struggled but they managed. We'll be grand.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,363 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    Lets hope we'll have a gvt by then.:D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,697 ✭✭✭Chivito550


    The lack of airport rail is annoying alright. But you know, Rio De Janeiro airport is much the same and they managed to host an even bigger world cup.

    On that point, it will be interesting to see how they manage the Olympic Games. The World Cup is one thing, with just 6-7 games in Rio spread over a month, and with many flying into other cities, such as Sao Paulo. Far different proposition getting people around all the venues in the 4 different Olympic zones in Rio, when there is multiple events going on at the same time, all in Rio (barring some football matches in other cities). The public transport links look a bit weak and disjointed, and their third metro line which links Ipanema to the Olympic Park in Barra may not even be ready in time. Rio is known for its rush hour gridlock traffic so it's not like a taxi will be an easier alternative. Could be a disaster for fans and journalists trying to get from one venue in one part of the city to a venue in the other.

    The Rugby World Cup is not the same scale as that, so perhaps you're right, we could manage. But at the same time, we definitely do not have an ideal public transport network for a major sporting event.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,121 ✭✭✭ClovenHoof


    Cardiff isn't exactly blessed with public transport either, they struggled but they managed. We'll be grand.

    Yeah, it only has 8 heavy rail lines compared to Dublin's 4 lines with a quarter the Dublin metro population...:rolleyes:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valleys_%26_Cardiff_Local_Routes


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    Cardiff struggled last year at the RWC, just ask anyone else who tried to get in from Bristol or London. Our infrastructure should be able to handle it. Most people will base themselves in Dublin. Extra trains and busses can be put on to get people to Cork/Galway/Limerick


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,615 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    P_1 wrote: »
    Cardiff struggled last year at the RWC, just ask anyone else who tried to get in from Bristol or London. Our infrastructure should be able to handle it. Most people will base themselves in Dublin. Extra trains and busses can be put on to get people to Cork/Galway/Limerick



    Cardiff struggled for the first game as the plans didn't adequately take account of the fact that there would be very little traffic from west of the city and that it would virtually all be from the east, unlike a home 6 Nations game.


    Certainly as the tournament progressed more appropriate arrangements were in place that worked much better.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 620 ✭✭✭LeChienMefiant


    That certainly wasn't my experience on the ground at the the quarter final I attended in Cardiff.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,768 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    Chivito550 wrote: »
    On that point, it will be interesting to see how they manage the Olympic Games. The World Cup is one thing, with just 6-7 games in Rio spread over a month, and with many flying into other cities, such as Sao Paulo. Far different proposition getting people around all the venues in the 4 different Olympic zones in Rio, when there is multiple events going on at the same time, all in Rio (barring some football matches in other cities). The public transport links look a bit weak and disjointed, and their third metro line which links Ipanema to the Olympic Park in Barra may not even be ready in time. Rio is known for its rush hour gridlock traffic so it's not like a taxi will be an easier alternative. Could be a disaster for fans and journalists trying to get from one venue in one part of the city to a venue in the other.

    The Rugby World Cup is not the same scale as that, so perhaps you're right, we could manage. But at the same time, we definitely do not have an ideal public transport network for a major sporting event.

    Public transport in Rio is horrendous every day of the week and driving to the airport is a nightmare except for flights which leave very late. The addition of a few hundred thousand Olympics attendees will have an effect but it will principally lead to moaning rather than true problems. The Zil lanes will play havoc with the local middle class as taxis and private cars will be slower during the olympics than at any other time (in a city where you can often take 3 hours to travel 5 miles). Spectators will need to base themselves at 1 location per day and set out very early for their events - I'm there for the full thing up to the closing ceremony for which we have tickets. Events in Barra will be a nightmare but I'm looking forward to nighttime beach volleyball - 5 minutes walk from my parents in law.

    Back on topic, Ireland will be absolutely fine for the RWC. Spectators from far away will come for extended periods and many will hire cars. The difficulty will come if, for example, England plays in Killarney and London based people want to fly in last moment. Hopefully, as with New Zealand camper vans will prove popular for nomadic fans.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,424 ✭✭✭✭Dodge


    Theres about 6 days between each countries games, getting from Cork to Castlebar won't be a problem.

    This is the important part. The vast, vast majority of fans visiting will be from the UK and France. They will fly in for the weekend of the and head home.

    The games involving the bigger nations are likely to be held in the cities so it's all very doable.

    Now we have transport issues that need fixing, but nothing that will crumble under World Cup 2023


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,778 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    The transport situation would be a bit touch and go, but I think Ireland could take it if (and it's a very big if) there were level-headed and practical people organising the trains.

    My reservation would be the number of hotels in some of the smaller venues (not to mention how much the price of a standard room would be bumped up by!)

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Chivito550 wrote: »
    With South Africa being blocked internally from making a bid, it's looking more likely Ireland will get the rugby world cup in 2023. In 2019 the standard will be set in terms of public transport at a world cup by Japan, who have fast, extensive, efficient, frequent and integrated rail network.

    We on the otherhand have poor public transport links between all the various potential venues. We don't have a rail link to the airport. I know New Zealand managed, despite having appalling public transport, but Ireland will attract far more visitors because we are located in Europe. How on earth is our third world public transport system going to manage an event of this magnitude?
    We cant really directly compare ourselves to Japan and we will be modelling ourselves more on New Zealand but due to our location we'll have significant numbers of people here just on short weekend breaks/flying in and out on day/weekend that their country is playing on.
    The inter city rail links are reasonable enough and the bus routes are again reasonable enough.
    P_1 wrote: »
    Cardiff struggled last year at the RWC, just ask anyone else who tried to get in from Bristol or London. Our infrastructure should be able to handle it. Most people will base themselves in Dublin. Extra trains and busses can be put on to get people to Cork/Galway/Limerick
    Cardiff struggles with a lot of big games in terms of people trying to get round the place. Its a mess. As the 2 main venues will be in Dublin most will base themselves there or just outside and travel up/down to games...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,697 ✭✭✭Chivito550


    Would hosting the World Cup not be a perfect opportunity to improve public transport infrastructure (regardless of whether we could get by without it or not)? Like how the roads were improved for the 1998 Tour de France, would this not be the perfect opportunity to get the powers that be off their holes and actually get Metro North built in time for this event?

    There could be a legacy to this event which goes beyond sport, and how other countries perceive us is important when we are presenting ourselves on a global stage. My housemate's family were over last week visiting from Poland, and one of them said to me that he found it odd that he didn't see much rail transport here. In mainland European nations that kind of thing is just expected.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,338 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    I would suggest we would need to complete the following projects to increase our public transport capacity sufficiently to host the RWC;
    [ol][li]Metro North - a large proportion of supporters would be coming in through DUB and it s needed anyway[/li][li]Extended Kildare Route Project to Heuston - increases rail capacity between Dublin and Cork+Limerick+Galway[/li][li]Build M20 and build a rail line along side the motorway between Charleville and Patrickswell -gives direct motorway and rail links between Cork and Limerick+Galway[/li][li]Double track Portarlington to Athlone - increases rail capacity between Dublin and Galway+Mayo[/li][/ol]


    That gives motorway and good rail capacity between our major cities. The big cost projects there are MN and M20 but these are necessary regardless of RWC. We should be looking to progress most of these projects within that timeframe anyway. We should also look at linking Shannon airport to the Limerick Galway rail line, even if it is just an airport shuttle although that is probably a RWC dependant project if even feasible then.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,424 ✭✭✭✭Dodge


    Chivito550 wrote: »
    Would hosting the World Cup not be a perfect opportunity to improve public transport infrastructure (regardless of whether we could get by without it or not)?

    That's a different question to your original one. I don't think you'll find any body arguing that we'd like to see upgrades to infrastructure in the next 7 years


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,988 ✭✭✭jacksie66


    This post has been deleted.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60 ✭✭darbat1


    I don't think so, Dept. of Transport, Transport for Ireland, Dublin bus etc they can't deliver a service now, and they have had over 25 years to get it right have they? I mean the web summit left this Country because of the transport problems, Hotel Pricing, We can't handle a web summit, it would take all the above to put their own interest aside, work for the greater good of the country but they can't do that now.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,424 ✭✭✭✭Dodge


    Web summit left because they wanted everything for free and Lisbon was willing to do that. Nothing to do with infrastructure


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,723 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    Dodge wrote: »
    Web summit left because they wanted everything for free and Lisbon was willing to do that. Nothing to do with infrastructure

    +1 They wanted the Govt. to use their muscle influence to get them big discounts in D4 hotels and they tried to get Garda escorts from the airport for CEOs of techie companies!

    Good riddance.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,464 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    P_1 wrote: »
    Extra trains can be put on to get people to Cork/Galway/Limerick

    we barely have the stock to run services as it is unfortunately.
    Chivito550 wrote: »
    Would hosting the World Cup not be a perfect opportunity to improve public transport infrastructure (regardless of whether we could get by without it or not)? Like how the roads were improved for the 1998 Tour de France, would this not be the perfect opportunity to get the powers that be off their holes and actually get Metro North built in time for this event?

    in an ideal world absolutely. however, this is ireland so i'd imagine the answer will be no .

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭questionmark?


    Marcusm wrote: »

    Back on topic, Ireland will be absolutely fine for the RWC. Spectators from far away will come for extended periods and many will hire cars. The difficulty will come if, for example, England plays in Killarney and London based people want to fly in last moment. Hopefully, as with New Zealand camper vans will prove popular for nomadic fans.

    I doubt a team such as England would be scheduled to play anywhere except Croker and the Aviva as they will pack the places out.

    If it was Killarney there is an airport nearby that already has London routes and I'm sure Ryanair would love to add loads of extra flights and big prices. Special flights from other airports would also be put on. Some joined up thinking from BE to get them to Killarney. The town also has a train station and buses from all over Ireland. The biggest issue with the town would be accommodation, not lack of it but rather the costs as tourism is the towns bread and butter so demand would be high.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,818 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    We will be able to handle it perfectly, airports, trains, buses and cars. Remember like 60% if no more will be Irish fans at the games!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,818 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    I doubt a team such as England would be scheduled to play anywhere except Croker and the Aviva as they will pack the places out.

    They will play where they are told to play, while most of the games will be in Dublin I wouldn't expect all of them to be. It will really depend on how the groups work out. If Ireland/England were playing of course it would be Croke Park but if other teams had big ticket games at same time as England would be bumped to lower capacity grounds.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭questionmark?


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    They will play where they are told to play, while most of the games will be in Dublin I wouldn't expect all of them to be. It will really depend on how the groups work out. If Ireland/England were playing of course it would be Croke Park but if other teams had big ticket games at same time as England would be bumped to lower capacity grounds.

    That is true but can you see a team that are guranteed to sell out the big stadiums have matches put on in Killarney or Thomand Park? There is a reason the Irish, Welsh and English games for example at the last world cup were at the biggest stadiums and the likes of Georgia were playing in stadiums more like Thomand park.

    Anyway back on topic. Ireland will get on fine and will get the sufficient transport in place to help make it a great world cup.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,818 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    That is true but can you see a team that are guranteed to sell out the big stadiums have matches put on in Killarney or Thomand Park? There is a reason the Irish, Welsh and English games for example at the last world cup were at the biggest stadiums and the likes of Georgia were playing in stadiums more like Thomand park.

    Anyway back on topic. Ireland will get on fine and will get the sufficient transport in place to help make it a great world cup.

    Yes because Dublin will host most (bar one likely) of Irish games and the the big ticket events. Remember along with Ireland, Wales, Scotland, France, Australasia and New Zealand will all be top contenders for Dublin games and only so many can be played

    A game such as England v Japan, Canada etc would not get played in Dublin if there was major games with above teams.

    Now as you say back on topic!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    I think dublin would be okay as most of the stadiums (croke park, landsdowne road and the rds) are within walking distance of the city centre the aviva has a the dart aswell which is another advantage. A metropical to the airport would be good aswell. Most of the games would in our so called major cities such as cork, limerick, belfast and galway all have the better of our rail connections you could even throw the likes of Thurles and kilarney both have relatively gaa grounds and are connected to dublin by rail.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,099 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    ClovenHoof wrote: »
    Yeah, it only has 8 heavy rail lines compared to Dublin's 4 lines with a quarter the Dublin metro population...:rolleyes:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valleys_%26_Cardiff_Local_Routes

    Let's not get too carried away. Here's the 'Metro' population for the two:

    Dublin: 1,801,040
    Cardiff: 1,097,000

    Cardiff hardly has only "a quarter the Dublin metro population".


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,697 ✭✭✭Chivito550


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Yes because Dublin will host most (bar one likely) of Irish games and the the big ticket events. Remember along with Ireland, Wales, Scotland, France, Australasia and New Zealand will all be top contenders for Dublin games and only so many can be played

    A game such as England v Japan, Canada etc would not get played in Dublin if there was major games with above teams.

    Now as you say back on topic!

    Good chance Japan could be one of the big teams come 2023 to be honest, but your point still stands.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,818 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    Chivito550 wrote: »
    Good chance Japan could be one of the big teams come 2023 to be honest, but your point still stands.

    TBH I would of had to Google spelling of the other weaker teams :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,778 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    I doubt a team such as England would be scheduled to play anywhere except Croker and the Aviva as they will pack the places out.

    If it was Killarney there is an airport nearby that already has London routes and I'm sure Ryanair would love to add loads of extra flights and big prices. Special flights from other airports would also be put on. Some joined up thinking from BE to get them to Killarney. The town also has a train station and buses from all over Ireland. The biggest issue with the town would be accommodation, not lack of it but rather the costs as tourism is the towns bread and butter so demand would be high.

    What's the transport like out of the airport?

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    What's the transport like out of the airport?

    Which Airport?
    The 2 at Belfast, The one near Killarney? the one near Limerick, the one for Cork or the one near Castlebar?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,778 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Which Airport?
    The 2 at Belfast, The one near Killarney? the one near Limerick, the one for Cork or the one near Castlebar?

    He said Killarney, so I'm assuming Farranfore.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,818 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    He said Killarney, so I'm assuming Farranfore.

    10 minute walk to train station and there is bus service, anyway for RWC additional buses would be provided etc.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,453 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Marcusm wrote: »
    Hopefully, as with New Zealand camper vans will prove popular for nomadic fans.

    NZ did have to build temporary camper van parks: even with their established camping infrastructure (which Ireland lacks to a great extent), they had nothing like enough regular facilities for these. But with the political will to do it, they managed. I'm not sure if the anti-camping ethos here could be overcome.

    However one big difference between the two is that Ireland has a far larger existing tourist infrastructure. Pricing during a RWC ensures that only rugby fans travel to the place at that time (I attended a wedding in NZ just after the RWC there - the date was actually shifted to not clash, because pricing just went thru the roof during it.) So I think Ireland would cope with little difficulty.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 51,744 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    bit of a thread resurrection, but it was just mentioned on the radio that ireland did not score well in the infrastructure section, and public transport was explicitly mentioned, in the technical recommendation examining the various bids for the world cup. by far from the only section we did not do well in, mind.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,708 ✭✭✭BeardySi


    Yes, it's looking like this thread is going to be an unfortunately moot point... :(


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 51,744 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i should clarify - the reporter explicitly mentioned public transport, i have not seen what reference was made to it in the recommendations.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 72,412 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    South Africa has wonderful PT of course...

    Residents thought the 2010 football WC was a disaster and they've even less money now


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    L1011 wrote: »
    South Africa has wonderful PT of course...

    Residents thought the 2010 football WC was a disaster and they've even less money now

    True enough I know someone who was and they told me they don't have buses in the cities.


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