Why there are so many junkies (chavs/knackers)in Dublin?

cgcsb · 06-11-2017 11:51am

Well there are several reasons really.

-We don't have any prison spaces, so usually there are no prison sentences handed down, there are people walking around with dozens, if not hundreds of convictions for petty theft and even moderate offenses like assault.

-We don't have a police force per say. We have the Gardaí who spend most of their time checking tax and insurance on the national roads, falsifying data, triple parking on Pearse St., or generally just shooting the breeze in their offices

-Our government from the early 1990s up until the recession incentivized single women from working class areas to have as many children as possible, such was the welfare set up at the time. They also incentivized welfare dependency in the early 2000s by paying out a weekly welfare rate almost equal to the then minimum wage.

-Drugs policy is ignore and obfusticate. We had a tremendous opportunity in this country a few years back to regularize, regulate and tax drugs through 'headshops' which sold legal synthetic drugs. Of course a few phone calls to Joe Duffy meant that they were just banned outright.

-The recent recession saw the state take on massive residential property portfolios through NAMA, so policy since then has been to make housing as expensive as possible through an onerous planning process and heavy taxation on development. This creates a homelessness crisis as a side effect and of course homelessness and drugs go hand in hand.

-This will change though, gentrification of Dublin's inner districts will push out undesireables

Wanderer78 · 06-11-2017 11:56am

cgcsb wrote: »

This will change though, gentrification of Dublin's inner districts will push out undesireables

so people with extremely complex issues are 'undesirables' and should be 'pushed out'? again, 'out of sight, out of mind' comes to mind! this solves the problem by......

Dublin Spur · 06-11-2017 12:21pm

There are 2 issues for me: 1) The filth and 2) the danger/criminality

On the filth, the north inner city is filthy dirty. I work just off Talbot Street and the amount of sh1te (animal and human) I step over every day on the way to the office is sickening. The council do their best but the sheer volume of dirt, litter and rubbish is way too high for them to make a dent in it. I don't know if the guilty parties are local or come into the north inner city to dump the crap, I would say its probably a bit of both.

Regarding the scummy individuals that lurk around every corner I think it's a policing issue - in the 90's Manhattan was transformed from a dangerous sleazy kip so there's no reason the same can't be done with Dublin, there just needs the right amount of determination, focus and of course money. Zero tolerance on anti-social behavior would be a good start along with tough sentencing for repeat offenders, working for the dole would be another positive step.

Look, I know there are no easy fixes here but surely we all agree that we can't leave things the way they are, the north inner city is badly broken but nobody seems to be doing anything to fix it. It's an embarrassment, O'Connell St and the surrounding area should be a world class location and something we should all be proud of as Dubliners.

The North/South inner city divide is also very wrong, why for example in Merrion Square in better shape than Montjoy square, both are pretty identical Georgian Dublin developments yet one is now pretty much a tenement whilst the other is gleaming. Who allowed these double standards to take hold and why as nobody ever done anything about it?

wakka12 · 06-11-2017 12:37pm

Dublin Spur wrote: »

There are 2 issues for me: 1) The filth and 2) the danger/criminality

On the filth, the north inner city is filthy dirty. I work just off Talbot Street and the amount of sh1te (animal and human) I step over every day on the way to the office is sickening. The council do their best but the sheer volume of dirt, litter and rubbish is way too high for them to make a dent in it. I don't know if the guilty parties are local or come into the north inner city to dump the crap, I would say its probably a bit of both.

Regarding the scummy individuals that lurk around every corner I think it's a policing issue - in the 90's Manhattan was transformed from a dangerous sleazy kip so there's no reason the same can't be done with Dublin, there just needs the right amount of determination, focus and of course money. Zero tolerance on anti-social behavior would be a good start along with tough sentencing for repeat offenders, working for the dole would be another positive step.

Look, I know there are no easy fixes here but surely we all agree that we can't leave things the way they are, the north inner city is badly broken but nobody seems to be doing anything to fix it. It's an embarrassment, O'Connell St and the surrounding area should be a world class location and something we should all be proud of as Dubliners.

The North/South inner city divide is also very wrong, why for example in Merrion Square in better shape than Montjoy square, both are pretty identical Georgian Dublin developments yet one is now pretty much a tenement whilst the other is gleaming. Who allowed these double standards to take hold and why as nobody ever done anything about it?

Very very true. Parnell square at least will be getting a lot of money invested in it soon with the opening of the cultural quarter and library and the restorationof the georgian gardens, so thatll be a big step for the north inner city

iodd7 · 06-11-2017 1:41pm

Swanner wrote: »

Offensive to you maybe.. We don't all choose to get offended by words so speak for yourself thanks..

I agree OP. Dublin has become a kip. The city centre seems to have become a mecca for undesireables and it's generally a very unpleasant place to be imo. I would contrast that with many other European cities which are a pleasure to walk around.

Why ? Well there's no single answer but I would say a complete inability to govern ourselves effectively has a lot to do with it. Our politicians are too greedy, corrupt and busy feathering their own nests to tackle issues that effect the less fortunate in our society.

Due to its derogatory usage to describe travellers, 'knacker' IS offensive, and identified as such. For example, see the row over Phil Hogan's use of the term in March 2013 as reported widely at the time.

AlanG · 06-11-2017 2:05pm

main differences I have seen between US Cities and Dublin.
- treatment centers are in the CBD in Dublin, in the US most CBD areas are just businesses.
- there is far more of a mix between upper and lower income class areas in Dublin - in most parts of the states there are social housing projects and then there are private areas and there is very little mix between the two.
- police and judges in the states can be fired so they look after the areas that vote and pay more taxes to ensure they stay in power - this is to the detriment of poor areas but makes other areas well policed and relatively safe.
- in Dublin there are a lot of free bus passes for people with addictions so they get around more.
- in the states people are generally expected to take on a higher level of individual responsibility, in Ireland someone else, or the system is often blamed so it is more acceptable to be reliant on handouts and the state.

IMO this makes the problem more visible in Dublin but it is actually much worse in most US cities, they are just fr more segregated.

Paulzx · 06-11-2017 2:29pm

There is no "solution" to the drugs problem per se. The only way to actually rid the city of its heroin (and other drugs) problem is to somehow try and avoid people becoming addicted in the first place................

At present we have all the issues associated with illegal, addictive substances.

Addiction
Criminality at serious and petty levels
Social and medical issues.
Homelessness
Drug clinics
Anti social behaviour
Intimidation
Etc, etc, etc

Legalising drugs will probably eliminate the Serious criminal element.

Will it eliminate all the problems Personally, I don't think so. We would still have the problem of addiction with all it's consequences. The state is unlikely to provide all heroin for free so addicts will still require money to buy the legal version. I can still see petty crime being used to fund that.

The social and medical problems associated with drug abuse along with the anti social behaviour will still exist. Yes, the fact that drugs would be now legal ensures that help could be provided in a more open way will play a part in possible diminishing this problem but it will still exist.

I don't know what the answer is. I don't have strong feelings on legalising or not legalising. Neither option is a solution to all the ills of drug abuse but we certainly don't seem to be doing things right at the moment as the number of addicts is not decreasing.

Once you get on heroin it seems pretty impossible to get off for the majority of people. Not getting on it in the first place is the only solution and i have no idea how we can achieve that.

cactusgal · 06-11-2017 2:53pm

AlanG wrote: »

main differences I have seen between US Cities and Dublin.
- treatment centers are in the CBD in Dublin, in the US most CBD areas are just businesses.
- there is far more of a mix between upper and lower income class areas in Dublin - in most parts of the states there are social housing projects and then there are private areas and there is very little mix between the two.
- police and judges in the states can be fired so they look after the areas that vote and pay more taxes to ensure they stay in power - this is to the detriment of poor areas but makes other areas well policed and relatively safe.
- in Dublin there are a lot of free bus passes for people with addictions so they get around more.
- in the states people are generally expected to take on a higher level of individual responsibility, in Ireland someone else, or the system is often blamed so it is more acceptable to be reliant on handouts and the state.

IMO this makes the problem more visible in Dublin but it is actually much worse in most US cities, they are just fr more segregated.

Interesting evaluation. As as American who's been living in Dublin for many years (and a former inhabitant of a few different 'big cities' in the USA), I'd agree with these points.

alastair · 06-11-2017 3:34pm

Dublin Spur wrote: »

The North/South inner city divide is also very wrong, why for example in Merrion Square in better shape than Montjoy square, both are pretty identical Georgian Dublin developments yet one is now pretty much a tenement whilst the other is gleaming. Who allowed these double standards to take hold and why as nobody ever done anything about it?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/8-million-plan-for-restoration-of-mountjoy-square-park-1.1888517

http://www.dublincity.ie/sites/default/files/content/RecreationandCulture/DublinCityParks/NewsEvents/Documents/MountjoySquareConservationPlanHistoricLandscapeStudy.pdf

Mountjoy Square is well into its major restoration and redevelopment. It’ll end up in much better shape than Merrion Square, once it’s complete tbh. It’s also utilised to a much greater extent than Merrion Square, for it’s size - and is a very pleasant place to spend an afternoon. The use of the housing stock around the park is different to Merrion Square for sure, given that there’s little residential use of Merrion Square, but it’s not quite all ‘tenements’. There’s at least three modern apartment developments, a bunch of smart owner-occupier Georgian stock, a smattering of businesses, the former DIT campus, and yes, a bunch of dense flatland conversions of the Georgian stock. The typical trend for anything Georgian sold on the square in recent times is either for owner-occupation, or short-term holiday lets. Merrion Square, lunchtime sandwiches for office workers aside, tends to be a bit dead outside the various events hosted there. So no, there’s not really much merit to the ‘double standards / nothing being done’ claim, when you look at it carefully.

Dublin Spur · 06-11-2017 4:07pm

alastair wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/8-million-plan-for-restoration-of-mountjoy-square-park-1.1888517

http://www.dublincity.ie/sites/default/files/content/RecreationandCulture/DublinCityParks/NewsEvents/Documents/MountjoySquareConservationPlanHistoricLandscapeStudy.pdf

Mountjoy Square is well into its major restoration and redevelopment. It’ll end up in much better shape than Merrion Square, once it’s complete tbh. It’s also utilised to a much greater extent than Merrion Square, for it’s size - and is a very pleasant place to spend an afternoon. The use of the housing stock around the park is different to Merrion Square for sure, given that there’s little residential use of Merrion Square, but it’s not quite all ‘tenements’. There’s at least three modern apartment developments, a bunch of smart owner-occupier Georgian stock, a smattering of businesses, the former DIT campus, and yes, a bunch of dense flatland conversions of the Georgian stock. The typical trend for anything Georgian sold on the square in recent times is either for owner-occupation, or short-term holiday lets. Merrion Square, lunchtime sandwiches for office workers aside, tends to be a bit dead outside the various events hosted there. So no, there’s not really much merit to the ‘double standards / nothing being done’ claim, when you look at it carefully.

appreciate the info - good to see improvements being made

however I do think the Northern Georgian Dublin areas have been neglected massively in comparison to their southern equivalents

Fitzwilliam or Merrion Square (or Iveagh Gardens) have always been nicer, cleaner and safer than Mountjoy and Parnell Squares.
And I don't like they way one half of the city has been 'looked after' better then the other. It's very obvious if you take a walk through the city.

Another good example would be to compare the environment around the Aviva Stadum with the area around Croke Park. I hate the way some parts of the city center are neglected and others are not. It's a small city and the divide should not be so obvious.

dd972 · 06-11-2017 4:26pm

iodd7 wrote: »

OP - your terminology is offensive - 'knacker' is a pejorative term for traveller (like calling a black person the n word) so you should edit your post - your recurring use of the word in your replies is strange.

Most of the time though it's used pejoratively about 'lower class/caste' people rather than specifically about Travellers although they are the original targets of the term, I don't particularly like it, as I have what many idiots perceive as 'a Traveller's face' so have heard it many a time to the point of it being grindingly tiresome.

The sort of people who bandy it around tend to be working-class people who delude themselves to be middle-class due to having a leaving cert, house, job and a car.

The Bishop Basher · 06-11-2017 4:55pm

iodd7 wrote: »

Due to its derogatory usage to describe travellers, 'knacker' IS offensive, and identified as such.

You stated as fact that the term is offensive and asked the OP to edit their post..

The problem is that many of us either don't find it offensive or don't care that you do.

I can't see any reason why we should avoid certain phrases to protect your sensitivities..

Being offended is most definitely a choice and it doesn't give you rights to any sort of special treatment. Ever.

Lux23 · 06-11-2017 5:34pm

wakka12 wrote: »

Simply massive tracts of social housing within the city centre core. i dont know why, I havnt seen it anywhere else Ive ever visited. Or maybe other countries social housing is less instantly obvious as social housing. But yeh, huge amounts of the old georgian city were demolished to put up block after block of horrid looking social housing. I dont know why theyre still there, they should really be made into normal looking apartment complexes with mixes of paid homes and social houses with retail units at ground floor

Some of the most important,central land with extremely high economic potential shouldnt be given over to social housing. St patricks church, one of the countrys biggest tourist attractions st patricks church, is literally surrounded by social housing. Im not advocating moving these people out to suburbs and making slums. But they dont need to live in such central areas. Places like rathmines or harolds cross are perfect distance as they are within walking distance to cbd as well. But yeh it needs to change.

For the most part, the people living in these council estates aren't the people the OP is talking about. For one, if they have a home they aren't hanging around the streets unless they're teenagers. I know plenty of people living in social housing near St Pats and they all work, they aren't junkies.

AlekSmart · 06-11-2017 6:44pm

Swanner wrote: »

You stated as fact that the term is offensive and asked the OP to edit their post..

The problem is that many of us either don't find it offensive or don't care that you do.

I can't see any reason why we should avoid certain phrases to protect your sensitivities..

Being offended is most definitely a choice and it doesn't give you rights to any sort of special treatment. Ever.

+100%

Awash as we are with stuff to be offended by,I would suggest that this is one where,by usage alone,that OP is home and dry.

https://www.farmersjournal.ie/tag/knackeries

https://irishconstabulary.com/a-dublin-policeman-s-story-from-the-late-1930-s-t1281.html

Perhaps a new thread on Words & Terms deemed (by somebody) acceptable,is the best way forward ?

NinetyTwoTeam · 06-11-2017 6:48pm

Have a look:
https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/6506936?utm_campaign=hp_fb_pages&utm_source=main_fb&utm_medium=facebook&ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000063

imme · 06-11-2017 10:44pm

Del2005 wrote: »

All the drug treatment centres are in the city centre. Not helped by the lack of enforcement of our laws.

I think these facilities are misnamed, they should be called mistreatment centres.

The people who attend these places don't seem to get much treatment.
The one that I pass daily has had the same people hanging around outside after their 'treatment' for years.

@OP: The answer that many people give is that there are no drug treatment centres in the suburbs of Dublin, so they're all in the city centre, hence the need for those who use them to come into the city.

How do they handle treatment in Boston.

Do you have the same type of 'characters' hanging around in Boston city centre.
Do you have scumbags over there?

badboyblast · 06-11-2017 11:06pm

It's only when you visit other cities in Ireland like limerick., Cork and Galway do you realise how unsafe Dublin centre is.

It is walking with zombies and anti social behaviour, there are addicts everywhere, an absolute kip of a place, Boston is streets ahead of it, very safe and clean city

dublinstevie · 07-11-2017 2:02am

place is full of lowlife waste of space scum

alastair · 07-11-2017 3:23am

badboyblast wrote: »

It's only when you visit other cities in Ireland like limerick., Cork and Galway do you realise how unsafe Dublin centre is.

It is walking with zombies and anti social behaviour, there are addicts everywhere, an absolute kip of a place, Boston is streets ahead of it, very safe and clean city

Addicts may not be particularly attractive to your eye, but that doesn’t necessarily make the environment you see them in unsafe. Dublin City Centre isn’t particularly unsafe. A bit of common sense goes a long way in keeping you safe anywhere, and that probably starts with differentiating the unsightly from the dangerous.

hatrickpatrick · 07-11-2017 4:18am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

so people with extremely complex issues are 'undesirables' and should be 'pushed out'? again, 'out of sight, out of mind' comes to mind! this solves the problem by......

I'm sorry but someone who puts a lot firework in someone else's hood and then laughs maniacally while the victim's head is engulfed in a shower of sparks does not have "extremely complex issues", he is a sadistic, psychopathic scumbag who needs to be locked up. End of story. This applies to the vast majority of scumbaggery in Dublin city which does not result from people committing theft or burglary, seeking revenge for some grudge or acting in self defenses - it results from individuals who believe that it is fun and entertaining to cause harm to others. As far as I'm concerned, such people have no place in a civilised society.

The Bishop Basher · 07-11-2017 8:41am

alastair wrote: »

Addicts may not be particularly attractive to your eye, but that doesn’t necessarily make the environment you see them in unsafe. Dublin City Centre isn’t particularly unsafe. A bit of common sense goes a long way in keeping you safe anywhere, and that probably starts with differentiating the unsightly from the dangerous.

Agreed on the common sense but how do you manage the bit in bold ?

In my experience Dublin is one of the few cities where trouble will come find you..

You can be walking down any street minding your own business and some little knacker will come up looking for hassle..

So how do you manage to successfully differentiate between the unsightly and those looking to rob or attack you

[/QUOTE]

cgcsb · 07-11-2017 2:44pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

so people with extremely complex issues are 'undesirables' and should be 'pushed out'? again, 'out of sight, out of mind' comes to mind! this solves the problem by......

Well hanging around Dublin City Centre where they are likely to get hit by buses and trams is not in their interests either is it? and the state has more/less decided not to tackle these peoples complex issues.

The Bishop Basher · 07-11-2017 3:40pm

cgcsb wrote: »

Well hanging around Dublin City Centre where they are likely to get hit by buses and trams is not in their interests either is it? and the state has more/less decided not to tackle any complex issues.

FYP

Lux23 · 07-11-2017 3:58pm

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I'm sorry but someone who puts a lot firework in someone else's hood and then laughs maniacally while the victim's head is engulfed in a shower of sparks does not have "extremely complex issues", he is a sadistic, psychopathic scumbag who needs to be locked up. End of story. This applies to the vast majority of scumbaggery in Dublin city which does not result from people committing theft or burglary, seeking revenge for some grudge or acting in self defenses - it results from individuals who believe that it is fun and entertaining to cause harm to others. As far as I'm concerned, such people have no place in a civilised society.

You know the victim was a junkie herself? I think these people are far more at risk of violence than you're average Joe Soap on their way to work or the pub.

Dublin Spur · 08-11-2017 1:04am

Lux23 wrote: »

You know the victim was a junkie herself? I think these people are far more at risk of violence than you're average Joe Soap on their way to work or the pub.

Well 3 female colleagues of mine have been assaulted (for their phones) in the past 18 months in the Foley St / Talbot St area.

All whilst walking to Connolly Station.

Its a fcuking kip around there and nobody seems to give a sh1t about it
The scum roam free and do what ever the hell they want.

alastair · 08-11-2017 1:38am

Swanner wrote: »

Agreed on the common sense but how do you manage the bit in bold ?

In my experience Dublin is one of the few cities where trouble will come find you..

You can be walking down any street minding your own business and some little knacker will come up looking for hassle..

So how do you manage to successfully differentiate between the unsightly and those looking to rob or attack you

I’ve lived in the north inner city for twenty years, and Ringsend and Phibsboro for seven years before that. Never had any issue with violence or theft on the street. Perhaps it’s luck, but I suspect it’s more to do with just being savvy and not intimidated by, eh, ‘little knackers’.

Sam Quentin · 08-11-2017 1:47am

eduzzino5 wrote: »

Please don't get me wrong - I don't want to offend or to insult anyone.
I don't even know the right word to use (knackers/chavs/scumbags/junkies). I moved from Boston to Dublin last year and it seems to me there are so many knackers in the city.

Just wanted to understand if there is a reason (bad welfare? high level of drugs? low police enforcement?) of why there are so many knackers in Dublin (especially in the city center)

NO NO NO Your mistaken haha their just extras for the upcoming Walking Dead movie ehhhh yes really..

As I run away with shame for my Capital City

Sam Quentin · 08-11-2017 2:49am

I lived in London for few years, so was aware of City Centre banning/asbo's orders in UK...
Anyway I was searching just so I could post some info about such a thing, and that it would be a great idea for Dublin and probably other Towns and Cities around the Country...
And I found this, I can only assume there is in no way enough of these bans being handed out!?..

https://www.wearedublintown.ie/2013/02/first-city-centre-asbos-served-barring-five-individuals/

eoinzy2000 · 08-11-2017 9:01am

G.G.G. wrote: »

Lol, the drug addicts are here cos treatment clinics? Pretty sure they usually open cos there's already a high proportion of users in an area.....

Around the world, high concentrations of drug addicts (and associated social issues) tend to happen in similar environments. Low socio-economic status, associated unemployment, financial and mental stress,cyclical educational underachievement, a culture counter to the mainstream...

From what little I know, heroin addiction is prevalent in poor areas & synonymous with poverty. You need a lot of money to rehab here and probably a desirable end point to work to. So in short, it's the greedy b*****d's that are trying to gather as much as they can before they die that are at fault really. A pile of rehab and treatment would go a long way

The Bishop Basher · 08-11-2017 9:02am

alastair wrote: »

Never had any issue with violence or theft on the street. Perhaps it’s luck, but I suspect it’s more to do with just being savvy and not intimidated by, eh, ‘little knackers’.

So are you saying that if everyone was as brave and savvy as you they wouldn't get attacked ?

I'm not so sure..

Take a quick glance at today's news for example...

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/quick-thinking-garda-uses-phone-app-to-locate-violent-daylight-robber-813131.html

This lady fought back hard against her attacker and was injured in the process. If she was intimidated she certainly wasn't showing it. I can't speak for her saviness but it's a classic example of a completely unprovoked attack on an innocent person going about their business in the city centre.

That's just from today..

The examples that disprove your theory are too numerous to mention..

Savvy indeed.. :rolleyes:

alastair · 08-11-2017 9:43am

Swanner wrote: »

So are you saying that if everyone was as brave and savvy as you they wouldn't get attacked ?

I'm not so sure..

Take a quick glance at today's news for example...

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/quick-thinking-garda-uses-phone-app-to-locate-violent-daylight-robber-813131.html

This lady fought back hard against her attacker and was injured in the process. If she was intimidated she certainly wasn't showing it. I can't speak for her saviness but it's a classic example of a completely unprovoked attack on an innocent person going about their business in the city centre.

That's just from today..

The examples that disprove your theory are too numerous to mention..

Savvy indeed.. :rolleyes:

Roll your eyes all you like me. You can find reports of bad stuff happening pretty much anywhere. It doesn’t make a Dublin an unsafe place, any more than it makes whatever other random location you search for crime in. My ‘theory’ is not any such thing, it’s a factual personal experience of living in this supposedly ‘unsafe’ environment for decades without incidence on the street theft/violence front.

server down · 08-11-2017 10:24am

alastair wrote: »

Roll your eyes all you like me. You can find reports of bad stuff happening pretty much anywhere. It doesn’t make a Dublin an unsafe place, any more than it makes whatever other random location you search for crime in. My ‘theory’ is not any such thing, it’s a factual personal experience of living in this supposedly ‘unsafe’ environment for decades without incidence on the street theft/violence front.

Maybe you are a man, and your experience isn’t the same as everyone’s. You were replying to a post about a female victim.

Paulzx · 08-11-2017 10:30am

server down wrote: »

Maybe you are a man, and your experience isn’t the same as everyone’s. You were replying to a post about a female victim.

To be fair you are just as likely to be the victim of random street assaults and robbery as a man.

Gender is irrellevant to the low level scrotes. They hunt in packs and are willing to chance anything.

server down · 08-11-2017 10:52am

Paulzx wrote: »

To be fair you are just as likely to be the victim of random street assaults and robbery as a man.

Gender is irrellevant to the low level scrotes. They hunt in packs and are willing to chance anything.

I don’t really know but I doubt it. Nothing’s ever happened to me as a male - and apparantly not to Alistar - on talbot street but I’ve heard stories from women.

wakka12 · 08-11-2017 12:40pm

Swanner wrote: »

So are you saying that if everyone was as brave and savvy as you they wouldn't get attacked ?

I'm not so sure..

Take a quick glance at today's news for example...

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/quick-thinking-garda-uses-phone-app-to-locate-violent-daylight-robber-813131.html

This lady fought back hard against her attacker and was injured in the process. If she was intimidated she certainly wasn't showing it. I can't speak for her saviness but it's a classic example of a completely unprovoked attack on an innocent person going about their business in the city centre.

That's just from today..

The examples that disprove your theory are too numerous to mention..

Savvy indeed.. :rolleyes:

I dont know how Ive gotten away without as much as a bad comment in Dublin..honestly never witnessed any antisocial behaviour there..Im in the city a lot during the week , often by myself, and go out at night there a lot too, and often walk home by myself from nights out.. Im a young guy and quite small/slim and people say Ive a dozy spaced out look about me :pac: Probably prime target..maybe Ive just been lucky.

Never had an aggressive beggar come up to me either..all been quite polite and very thankful if I give money

Assetbacked · 08-11-2017 3:16pm

Around Connolly Station, as would be quite normal for main train stations in cities, there are always bottom-hangers roaming about. The area between Connolly and O'Connell Street is littered with junkies. The park on Foley Street is where drug-dealing takes place out in the open. Anyone can go and witness this any day of the week. Similarly, there is an internet café that is open 24 hours and charges a nominal fee of €5 or something for people to stay and "use the café" all night if they wish. As a result, there is a crew of knackers hanging around outside from early evening through the night. The amount of junkies and beggars in the City Centre is too high and creates a putrid atmosphere and unwelcoming sight for tourists and locals alike. One of the most infuriating things to see is elderly people walking the streets and being visibly uncomfortable by the junkies shuffling around.

On a street level, our police force should take a proactive approach and almost harass the junkies for simply hanging around. They should be routinely told to move on from the areas, stopped and questioned, have their pathetic belongings seized and thrown in the bin and intimidated by the police.

At a higher level, DCC need to work on some sort of plan which looks at what causes such a congregation of sub-humans in our City Centre in order to try and deal with the problem. I do not think this is simply a poverty issue, there are lower-socioeconomic sections of the city centre and the vast majority of people living there do not live their lives perpetually strung out. The cause must be something else.

hatrickpatrick · 08-11-2017 3:29pm

Lux23 wrote: »

You know the victim was a junkie herself? I think these people are far more at risk of violence than you're average Joe Soap on their way to work or the pub.

I don't mind people being junkies AKA drug addicts though. I mean it's sad and it sucks for them, and I think they should get help but being an addict in and of itself isn't necessarily causing harm to others and as such isn't necessarily part of the problem in Dublin. Only some drug addicts are also psychopathic scumbags who hurt, harass and physically attack others because they think it's funny, and only some psychopathic scumbags who hurt, harass and physically attack others because they think it's funny are also drug addicts. We need to start separating these types of people when we talk about this IMO. The person who gets wasted / blazed / out of it on some drug and then spends the rest of the day lying on the boardwalk or wandering around like a zombie is not a "problem" insofar as the wellbeing of other citizens is concerned. The person who randomly harasses, shouts at, hits, or violently assaults others just for fun is very definitely a "problem" for all of society, and it's those people I'm saying should be shown absolutely no pity or leniency whatsoever by the justice system.

There are drug addicts, there are violent drug addicts, and there are violent people in general. The latter two groups urgently need to be tackled. I'm not suggesting that the law should hassle or mass-incarcerate anyone in the former group, in fact I'm explicitly suggesting that it should refrain from doing this.

Let me put this in simpler terms - is there any evidence that the victim of the firework attack was the type of person who would similarly have assaulted / nearly killed another person and laugher her head off about it? If not, regardless of being a drug addict, she's not part of the problem as far as I'm concerned.

Hell, I'm from Dun Laoghaire and we have a fair few addicts here due to several methadone dispensaries in the area, but again only a tiny proportion of those get wasted and then go out to cause trouble for the rest of the day. The majority of them get their dose and then seek out a quiet, secluded or derelict space in which they can use it, obliviate themselves and essentially stay out of everyone's way. Most of them specifically aim to not be disturbed while they're out of it - the derelict baths building is widely known to be a hotspot for drug addicts these days. Those people may be junkies, but in my view they're not "knackers" as mentioned in the OP's post. Knackers are those who spend their day seeking ways to disrupt, annoy, and harm others - drugs or not.

Let me put it another way. Whether somebody leans out of their window and randomly shouts "WHAT DA FUQ ARE YEWWWWW LOOKIN' AH?!" at random passers by or not is a better indicator of whether they're a scumbag, than whether or not they have a drug addiction.

sabat · 08-11-2017 5:28pm

Assetbacked wrote: »

Similarly, there is an internet café that is open 24 hours and charges a nominal fee of €5 or something for people to stay and "use the café" all night if they wish. As a result, there is a crew of knackers hanging around outside from early evening through the night.

This place is no longer 24 hours from about a month ago; whether it was voluntary or from pressure from the police I don't know, but it does appear to have reduced the amount of filth hanging around.

Tony EH · 11-11-2017 1:27am

eduzzino5 wrote: »

Please don't get me wrong - I don't want to offend or to insult anyone.
I don't even know the right word to use (knackers/chavs/scumbags/junkies). I moved from Boston to Dublin last year and it seems to me there are so many knackers in the city.

Just wanted to understand if there is a reason (bad welfare? high level of drugs? low police enforcement?) of why there are so many knackers in Dublin (especially in the city center)

Because Dublin is a hard city to make things work in and it leads to people dropping out socially in various ways.

It's overpriced, underfunded, under developed and has been governed by a succession of cunts who don't give a damn about the devastating wake they leave, because none of them ever have to face the consequences of their actions/policies.

People here have essentially had their ability to put a roof over their heads taken away from them and their ability start families in stable environments, due to incredibly bad political mechanisation over the last 25 years or so. You can't buy a house, you can't rent for anything reasonable, your next crappy paycheck could be your last and you may find yourself on shitty part of the Monopoly board through no real fault of your own.

There are also a cadre of folk that just don't care any more. They've given up more or less, because they know it's too much of an uphill struggle. So, they live for today and to hell with tomorrow. They know that they'll be 35 and still living at home with their parents. They know there's no real future. So, they act it out.

They have nothing to lose and nothing to gain.

Tony EH · 11-11-2017 1:34am

Stoner wrote: »

San Francisco about 10 years ago was terrible, but they've addressed that issue to a large degree.

Have you been to SF recently?

EVERY street corner littered with homeless people, either mental or off their face.

It's a diabolical city.

Tony EH · 11-11-2017 1:51am

Birdie Num Num wrote: »

I saw the OP mentioned 'Bad Welfare' as a possible reason. Interestingly I was told that one of the reasons that San Fran had such a similar issue was because social welfare was pretty good there compared to other parts of the US.

Nope. It's because it's mild.

When I was there on business a few years ago I was utterly shocked (and little does that to me these days) by the sheer amount of homeless folk in the city. Everywhere, and I do mean everywhere. Some dangerous characters too.

They come from all over, usually to try and get to LA first and then they're often moved on from there and find themselves in San Francisco and the like.

I had a conversation with an interesting fella who works with them, in soup kitchens and whatnot when I was there. The weather's the main draw. Because, while you can live most of the year round in NYC on $1 pizza and do ok, a New York winter will kill you, especially is f it's like the ones they've seen over the past few years.

In SF, you might get the odd chilly morning as the fog rolls in, but you probably won't wake up covered in 2/3 ft of snowfall.

zetalambda · 11-11-2017 3:55am

Flies on shit.

mikemac2 · 11-11-2017 4:15am

RTÉ Radio One have a podcast show called Documentaries on one. All sorts of random topics and many were recorded decades ago

In 1975 a young bould Pat Kenny

interviewed four lads from Foley Street. Young lads 12 - 15 years old. All in and out of St Pats or Clonmel or other young offenders places

Blatantly bragging how they broke into cars or shops but never locals houses, honour among thieves....

We got no money mister Kenny, we rob from the rich fellas and break into their cars, sure they’d don’t need it mister Kenny is the gist

RTÉ returned around 1987, one lad became a brickie fair play, one was dead from drugs and the other two got corpo housing, had 6-7 kids, never lasted in any job and it was society’s fault they hadn’t held a steady job in 12 years

I thought it was an interesting show. Anyway it just confirms what you already know, the youngsters you see out robbing and dealing and hanging around.......members of their family has likely been at it for generations

Johngoose · 11-11-2017 5:19am

Cork is turning into a bit of a hole now too.City centre filled with scumbags, beggars and feral children.Little or no sign of guards or of them doing anything about it.

dd972 · 12-11-2017 12:34am

Johngoose wrote: »

Cork is turning into a bit of a hole now too.City centre filled with scumbags, beggars and feral children.Little or no sign of guards or of them doing anything about it.

Do they look down their noses at anyone not from Cork as well? :pac: (sorry, couldn't resist), bit surprising that, there is a bit of an underbelly to Cork but it seems well avoidable from all my visits there, not as obvious as such things are in Dublin or Limerick.

nilescraneo · 12-11-2017 5:04am

Dublin has a small city area in comparison to other cities, with a concentration of homeless services, hostels, methadone clinics, needle exchanges etc located within it's environs. So addicts are a lot more noticeable and congregate in bigger groups.

As for what can be done, the suggestions of "zero tolerance" and all that cop show bravado doesn't work and won't work. I work indirectly in this area, and the two things that I think would make a difference are: 1. Extremely early intervention for children who begin acting out in school, ie, social worker visits child's home to assess what the underlying problem might be, and what support parents might require. Fund those supports adequately, as if you can divert that child from coming into contact with the justice system as an adult you will be saving huge money in the long run on Garda time, prison, legal aid etc.

The second would be, on a pilot basis, to at least attempt to treat drug addiction as a medical/psychological problem and not a criminal justice one. When the chief super of Store Street Garda station openly admits that he can't arrest his way out of a medical problem, but has no other tools available to him, it's time for a bloody change!

NIMAN · 12-11-2017 5:33am

Tony EH wrote: »

Have you been to SF recently?

EVERY street corner littered with homeless people, either mental or off their face.

It's a diabolical city.

... and proof that Dublin is no worse than most other major cities.

Some people seem to think only Irish has these social issues.

The grass isn't always greener.

zetalambda · 12-11-2017 11:39pm

NIMAN wrote: »

... and proof that Dublin is no worse than most other major cities.

Some people seem to think only Irish has these social issues.

The grass isn't always greener.

Except Dublin isn't a major city (unless you're talking in an Irish context) and comparing San Francisco to Dublin is like comparing Dublin to Waterford.

wakka12 · 13-11-2017 12:16am

zetalambda wrote: »

Except Dublin isn't a major city (unless you're talking in an Irish context) and comparing San Francisco to Dublin is like comparing Dublin to Waterford.

Dublin is pretty big. Its roughly half the size of san fransisoc in terms of population ,600k in central city area, nearly 1.5 million people in city and suburban area combined. Almost 2 million if you include metro area which includes places like kildare meath wicklow

SF had 800,000 in the city, 4.5 million metro area which includes distant counties and towns outside san fransico, similar to how meath kildare are in our 'metro'dublin area

Bonniedog · 13-11-2017 12:19am

Prune Tracy wrote: »

"It happens in America too" is a bit overly defensive - I don't think the opening poster has disputed that, but they're asking about Dublin.

I reckon it's due to a policing vacuum, and I know that some major American cities have needle parks for addicts to hang out in - there aren't such places in Dublin though.

New York was going down the plug hole until the NYPD and mayor decided enough was enough. It is now relatively one of safest big cities in the world. Dublin is run by shower of half wits who are either incompetent or couldn't care less. I don't blame the cops as there was one major operation against street dealers that led to almost no jail time.

Why there are so many junkies (chavs/knackers)in Dublin?

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