Net Neutrality Repealed in the US

Wurly · 14-12-2017 10:11PM #1

THe FCC in America have repealed Net Neutrality... Here's just a glimpse of what this means for Americans:

Take Google for example. Now that net neutrality rules have been dismantled, the internet monolith faces the possibility of paying higher fees to access high-speed (meaning, the same speeds they've enjoyed for the past two years) lanes. This is one reason Google, Apple, Facebook, Twitter and other major companies have been so loudly, fervently opposed to the destruction of net neutrality: They want to make money, and paying higher fees doesn't compute with this goal. Meanwhile, small ISPs hoping to enter the market would face these same elevated prices for faster connections, potentially stifling innovation at the onset.

ISPs, on the other hand, want the ability to charge these higher fees. Not only does today's FCC's ruling open the path for ISPs to institute multiple internet speed lanes, but it also allows them to engage in previously banned practices like throttling, blocking and paid prioritization. Throttling, for instance, would allow a company like Comcast to slow speeds down on certain apps or sites, thereby nudging people toward alternative services. Comcast is the largest ISP in the US and it happens to own NBCUniversal, which has a controlling stake in Hulu. If Comcast wants to give Hulu an edge over Netflix, it's now free to slow down speeds just for Netflix. Hell, it could even block the service entirely.

Source: https://www.engadget.com/2017/12/14/net-neutrality-what-now/

The definition of net neutrality is: "The principle that Internet service providers should enable access to all content and applications regardless of the source, and without favouring or blocking particular products or websites.".

Oh dear!! This is a little scary...... Basically, the internet is set to become an absolute sh!t show for the smaller ISP's... All of the conglomerates in bed with the big guys will have quick access granted to their websites. The others will be slow as bejaysis. So if you're on your fave site and it's barely loading, you're eventually going to look elsewhere. And that elsewhere will be what they decide you look at. You won't get that decision anymore.

doc22 · 14-12-2017 10:24PM

Why should ISP's invest massive sums into infrastructure while allowing other companies profit of there backs?

Are Am Eye · 14-12-2017 10:25PM

In the long run it will be beneficial if different private business(big web companies) add their own infrastructure which will secure their autonomy and improve the overall situation.

ThisRegard · 14-12-2017 10:27PM

doc22 wrote: »

Why should ISP's invest massive sums into infrastructure while allowing other companies profit of there backs?

Here here. Now, how do I pay my transport provider their cut of my profits I earn from them taking me to and from the place I make my money.

It's a nonsensical argument.

Sonics2k · 14-12-2017 10:34PM

doc22 wrote: »

Why should ISP's invest massive sums into infrastructure while allowing other companies profit of there backs?

You know the various ISP's have been given anywhere between $200billion and $400billion to expand the infrastructure across the US by the Government, right?

No Net Neutrality also means that ISP's can throttle bandwidth to certain websites either because they want you to use their own platform (Netflix for example) or simply because they want you to pay more per month.

Thankfully in the EU we have Net Neutrality, and it's not going anywhere.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 14-12-2017 10:38PM

So, potentially daft question coming in here (not as tech savvy as most of you here), but will this effect non-US internet users?

doc22 · 14-12-2017 10:41PM

ThisRegard wrote: »

Here here. Now, how do I pay my transport provider their cut of my profits I earn from them taking me to and from the place I make my money.

It's a nonsensical argument.

If you were using say a bus as a mode of transport to deliver products commercially say as a courier and taking up space with parcels would you not be expected to pay more?

bodhrandude · 14-12-2017 10:43PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

So, potentially daft question coming in here (not as tech savvy as most of you here), but will this effect non-US internet users?

It could affect streaming of US premiered shows and torrent sites and the like.

ThisRegard · 14-12-2017 10:45PM

doc22 wrote: »

If you were using say a bus as a mode of transport to deliver products commercially say as a courier and taking up space with parcels would you not be expected to pay more?

Will the bus company charge me more, drive much, much slower, or the long way, if my neighbour pays them more for preferential treatment, making it harder for me to get to work and earn money?

doc22 · 14-12-2017 11:00PM

Do you think it's fair that websites like netflix's can choke up infrastructure but pay nothing towards it's up keep?

ThisRegard · 14-12-2017 11:03PM

doc22 wrote: »

Do you think it's fair that websites like netflix's can choke up infrastructure but pay nothing towards it's up keep?

Have you read how Netflix manage their data over the internet via their CDNs they pay for?

Wurly · 14-12-2017 11:03PM

It also means having to pay for downloading simple things like PDF files.

There's talk of social media becoming a chargeable service like this:

Twitter: $14.99/month
Snapchat: $9.99/month
YouTube: $19.99/month
Netflix: $9.99/per movie
Google: $1.99/per search

Nuts!

Ipso · 14-12-2017 11:27PM

Wurly wrote: »

It also means having to pay for downloading simple things like PDF files.

There's talk of social media becoming a chargeable service like this:

Twitter: $14.99/month
Snapchat: $9.99/month
YouTube: $19.99/month
Netflix: $9.99/per movie
Google: $1.99/per search

Nuts!

Hopefully this could be the end of facebook and twatter!

Pero_Bueno · 15-12-2017 12:08AM

Sonics2k wrote: »

You know the various ISP's have been given anywhere between $200billion and $400billion to expand the infrastructure across the US by the Government, right?

No Net Neutrality also means that ISP's can throttle bandwidth to certain websites either because they want you to use their own platform (Netflix for example) or simply because they want you to pay more per month.

Thankfully in the EU we have Net Neutrality, and it's not going anywhere.

Good, I was about to ask will it effect the EU - hope above stays true for the foreseeable future anyway.

Pero_Bueno · 15-12-2017 12:11AM

bodhrandude wrote: »

It could affect streaming of US premiered shows and torrent sites and the like.

It could, but I suspect people will start to use secure VPNs - ISP can't see the encrypted data.

suicide_circus · 15-12-2017 12:11AM

There's nothing American about neutrality!

dublinman1990 · 15-12-2017 01:59AM

You forgot one important detail about that decision from the FCC.

The US House of Congress could make the decision with a simple majority vote calling for this repeal to be reversed. But then if this vote isn't reversed at all; it could be a complete disaster for enabling continuing progression through all areas of the digital economy in America.

end of the road · 15-12-2017 02:40AM

doc22 wrote: »

Do you think it's fair that websites like netflix's can choke up infrastructure but pay nothing towards it's up keep?

netflics pays for the infrastructure they use.

Hammer89 · 15-12-2017 02:44AM

I have one question and one question only: Can I still ****?

KungPao · 15-12-2017 03:11AM

Hammer89 wrote: »

I have one question and one question only: Can I still ****?

Yeah but it’s $9.99 per ejaculation ☹️

15-12-2017 09:51AM

Aren't some of our practices here anti-Net Neutrality? You have mobile phone networks offering free access to YouTube, Facebook, etc. Pretty sure that's against what is defined as Net Neutrality.

Infini · 15-12-2017 10:02AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Aren't some of our practices here anti-Net Neutrality? You have mobile phone networks offering free access to YouTube, Facebook, etc. Pretty sure that's against what is defined as Net Neutrality.

In fairness theres a difference between free access and actively throttling competitors. The real problem with the net neutrality repeal is ISPs acting the bollocks and slowing down their competitors. ISPs wont be to quick either on ripping people off because firstly the net neutrality rules came about in the first place because of their messing. The second is that congress may yet block the repeal expecially after the loss of a republican stronghold and rising fury of people at their shenanigans.

15-12-2017 10:32AM

Sonics2k wrote: »

Thankfully in the EU we have Net Neutrality, and it's not going anywhere.

We actually don't. It's how a Portugese ISP can do this and Eir/Meteor can give free access to selected social media sites via their "Social Networking Bundle". From https://www.eir.ie/mobile/prepay/

On the Meteor Simplicity 4G plans you will automatically get unlimited access to Youtube (until 28th Feb 2018), Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, viber and whatsapp without eating into your data allowance.

end of the road wrote: »

netflics pays for the infrastructure they use.

Indeed. In fact, Eir have a Netflix CDN in-house. Unlike Virgin Media, who were throttling the hell out of it a few years back by misrouting traffic via the US and back.

Fnz · 15-12-2017 10:59AM

Hammer89 wrote: »

I have one question and one question only: Can I still ****?

Well, Comcast and AT&T may throttle you...

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Aren't some of our practices here anti-Net Neutrality? You have mobile phone networks offering free access to YouTube, Facebook, etc. Pretty sure that's against what is defined as Net Neutrality.

Thin end of the wedge, few will get outraged by getting free additional data. Can later be thrown in the face of objectors when Ireland/EU decide to repeal NN - "truth is we've never had neutrality... and it has been great for consumers!"

Foxhound38 · 15-12-2017 11:33AM

He couldn't even just do it and not be a complete pryk about it - he's actually rubbing everyone's noses in it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HK8a3yZDVUM

Also one of the people in the harlem shake part of it is an alt-right loon.

Sonics2k · 15-12-2017 11:52AM

Karsini wrote: »

We actually don't. It's how a Portugese ISP can do this and Eir/Meteor can give free access to selected social media sites via their "Social Networking Bundle". From https://www.eir.ie/mobile/prepay/

Indeed. In fact, Eir have a Netflix CDN in-house. Unlike Virgin Media, who were throttling the hell out of it a few years back by misrouting traffic via the US and back.

We actually do:

http://berec.europa.eu/eng/netneutrality/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_neutrality_law#European_Union

Basically all Net Neutrality means is that ISP's can't actively block or throttle your access to certain websites.

Eir, for example, don't block or throttle your access to social media sites, rather they simply don't include the data used when browsing those sites.

biZrb · 15-12-2017 11:52AM

I think this is a disaster for the consumer, it now gives ISPs the ability to charge extra for certain things on the internet that were once part of the package the consumer received from an ISP. The greed of corporate companies in America and the support they receive from Senators is just astonishing.

Also, that Ajit Pai guy seems like a prat.

Sephiroth_dude · 15-12-2017 11:56AM

That Ajit Pai deserve a box, the smary little bollox!

15-12-2017 12:26PM

Sonics2k wrote: »

We actually do:

http://berec.europa.eu/eng/netneutrality/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_neutrality_law#European_Union

Basically all Net Neutrality means is that ISP's can't actively block or throttle your access to certain websites.

Eir, for example, don't block or throttle your access to social media sites, rather they simply don't include the data used when browsing those sites.

But if we have Net Neutrality, how are MEO getting away with what they're doing?

ThisRegard · 15-12-2017 12:29PM

Karsini wrote: »

We actually don't. It's how a Portugese ISP can do this and Eir/Meteor can give free access to selected social media sites via their "Social Networking Bundle". From https://www.eir.ie/mobile/prepay/

I've had this debate before. It's not really the same. They're additional add on for a mobile phone package. If you don't take them you're not restricted from using them.

If you voluntarily do take them you're not excluded from using any other service, nor is any other service throttled or blocked from being used. Any of the services included in such bundles don't pay to do so in order to throttle rival services.

With the days of all you can eat packages on this side of the world you don't really need such packages and can use your data to do whatever you want.

15-12-2017 12:30PM

But you're still favouring one service over another.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 15-12-2017 12:30PM

Hammer89 wrote: »

I have one question and one question only: Can I still ****?

No and yes. No, it's still going to be sinful; while yes, but you might have to get used to this:

905670.jpg?b64lines=IE9ILCBDQVBUQUlOIEpBTkVXQVkuIE1NTSwKIExBQ0UtLSBUSEUgRklOQUwKIEJSQVNTSUVSRS4=

905670.jpg?b64lines=IE9ILCBDQVBUQUlOIEpBTkVXQVkuIE1NTSwKIExBQ0UtLSBUSEUgRklOQUwKIEJSQVNTSUVSRS4=

ThisRegard · 15-12-2017 12:38PM

Karsini wrote: »

But you're still favouring one service over another.

I suppose it could be argued that they're just given people what they want, reflecting the most used apps, rather than being driven by those who own the apps.

Digital Solitude · 15-12-2017 12:46PM

ThisRegard wrote: »

I suppose it could be argued that they're just given people what they want, reflecting the most used apps, rather than being driven by those who own the apps.

I would imagine it stifles competition somewhat.

How would you go about setting up a new social network or a new video hosting site when your main and biggest competitors don't count towards consumers data cap, but yours does.

I don't think it's directly malicious from Eir, VF, 3 etcs POV but I'd be surprised if Facebook, Twitter and Google aren't paying a hat of money to ensure they're the only ones benefitting

Sonics2k · 15-12-2017 12:46PM

Karsini wrote: »

But if we have Net Neutrality, how are MEO getting away with what they're doing?

I'm not an expert on it, but I believe that MEO is not actually preventing/blocking/throttling you from accessing this sites unless you pay, rather they give you 'unlimited' access to them each month and have no worry about using up your data allowance.

it's targeted at people who would easily use say 5gb of data on just Snapchat in a month, but the monthly allowance overall is 6gb. Meaning they only have 1gb left for the rest of the data.

I'm not saying I'm a fan of it, but this doesn't really break net neutrality.

If MEO or another network decided to massively reduce your speeds when using Netflix, or simply prevent you from using it, unless you paid extra then that would be against Net Neutrality laws.

cherryghost · 15-12-2017 12:49PM

ThisRegard wrote: »

Have you read how Netflix manage their data over the internet via their CDNs they pay for?

Netflix operate their own CDN, for well over a year now.

ThisRegard · 15-12-2017 12:53PM

Digital Solitude wrote: »

I would imagine it stifles competition somewhat.

How would you go about setting up a new social network or a new video hosting site when your main and biggest competitors don't count towards consumers data cap, but yours does.

As I said, the cap is so large these days there's little obstruction to using any service.

cherryghost wrote: »

Netflix operate their own CDN, for well over a year now.

That's my point.

Digital Solitude · 15-12-2017 12:57PM

ThisRegard wrote: »

As I said, the cap is so large these days there's little obstruction to using any service.

Not true at all, most mobile plans in this country have a cap of 20-30gb maximum, less than 1gb a day.

What would you consider a large cap?

Chrongen · 15-12-2017 02:52PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

So, potentially daft question coming in here (not as tech savvy as most of you here), but will this effect non-US internet users?

Eventually

Chrongen · 15-12-2017 02:59PM

Wurly wrote: »

THe FCC in America have repealed Net Neutrality... Here's just a glimpse of what this means for Americans:

Source: https://www.engadget.com/2017/12/14/net-neutrality-what-now/

The definition of net neutrality is: "The principle that Internet service providers should enable access to all content and applications regardless of the source, and without favouring or blocking particular products or websites.".

Oh dear!! This is a little scary...... Basically, the internet is set to become an absolute sh!t show for the smaller ISP's... All of the conglomerates in bed with the big guys will have quick access granted to their websites. The others will be slow as bejaysis. So if you're on your fave site and it's barely loading, you're eventually going to look elsewhere. And that elsewhere will be what they decide you look at. You won't get that decision anymore.

Any of the last remaining fools who still cling to the notion that the US has anything to do with freedom of any kind need to have their heads tested.

This will also wipe out websites/blogs/news services that are critical of the US government or carry content that is in anyway embarrassing or damning.

RIP Wikileaks.

TAFKAlawhec · 15-12-2017 03:07PM

Karsini wrote: »

We actually don't. It's how a Portugese ISP can do this...

If you count Snopes as being reliable, then the things being made available on the MEO page are additional extras available on top of standard internet access on their mobile network. Not quite the same as what's been given the green light in the USA where certain traffic can be throttled at the whim of the ISP for company preference or extortion etc.

https://www.snopes.com/portugal-net-neutrality/

On the issues of the likes of Facebook, Wikipedia and others being zero-rated on mobile data plans, while I don't see it myself as being inherently wrong I can understand the reasons opposing it as being against net neutrality in the strictest sense which at the same time puts users into a semi-walled garden which inhibits outside competitors. If there had to be a choice between an offer of specific sites of an internet plan getting zero rated being banned, and between what is now being allowed in the USA, I'd choose the former every time.

15-12-2017 03:14PM

I take that back so.

But it does bring up a point, if the EU do have net neutrality rules, then Virgin Media were obviously violating them back at the end of 2015 with the Netflix and YouTube throttling. I left at the time so I don't know if it's still going on with YouTube, but many believe that Netflix paid up, hence the integration with Horizon TV now.

ThisRegard · 15-12-2017 03:33PM

Digital Solitude wrote: »

Not true at all, most mobile plans in this country have a cap of 20-30gb maximum, less than 1gb a day.

What would you consider a large cap?

I get by with 1GB a month!

PLL · 15-12-2017 03:45PM

I always thought charges would come in for Social Media. I mean we pay sky to transmit channels we like. Why shouldn't we pay for apps that people spend hours on? They're businesses' after all. People will pay to use them.

15-12-2017 03:54PM

PLL wrote: »

I always thought charges would come in for Social Media. I mean we pay sky to transmit channels we like. Why shouldn't we pay for apps that people spend hours on? They're businesses' after all. People will pay to use them.

That analogy doesn't really work here though. When you watch pay TV, you pay the broadcaster, not the service provider. That would be the equivalent of paying SES (the satellite operator) to watch a channel on the satellite. In that case, the channel doesn't get the money, the satellite operator does.

Digital Solitude · 15-12-2017 07:28PM

ThisRegard wrote: »

I get by with 1GB a month!

Fair ****s, I regularly use 25gb+, would often have hit 100gb+ before I got broadband in the house.

As another poster said, if I were to allow FB and YouTube data free as opposed to a total repeal of NN, I'd give the free data every time. I don't necessarily agree with the practice but I can see the benefits for consumers.

Back to US NN, when does this become finalised? By my understanding it can still be overturned.

wheresmahbombs · 20-12-2017 04:11PM

ThisRegard wrote: »

I get by with 1GB a month!

Wow. I wonder what it would be like if I had to deal with the same struggle you endure.

Also, **** Ajit Pai.

Net Neutrality Repealed in the US

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