America's gun problem Do you think they will ever fix it?

AMKC · 18-02-2018 09:43PM #1

What would you do to fix it?

Me I think there should be an age limit of 30 or 35 before you can have a gun privately and that guns should not be sold with bullets in gun shops. You would get your bullets at the gun range.

So what should they do to solve it and stop more gun shootings from happening?

BillyBobBS · 18-02-2018 09:45PM

They need the will to fix it which they don't have.

whiskeyman · 18-02-2018 09:46PM

It's not a gun problem.
It's a people problem.

Dev84 · 18-02-2018 09:47PM

Who cares. They dont. Why should we. Let them murder all the school kids.

WoollyRedHat · 18-02-2018 09:48PM

I'm gun to say no.

Fiery mutant · 18-02-2018 09:50PM

First they have to admit they have a problem. Once that happens then progress can be made. Hopefully this is the turning point where something will be done.

But I won’t hold my breath.

whiskeyman · 18-02-2018 09:51PM

I've got the solution to the gun problem.

But it'll probably get shot down...

mulbot · 18-02-2018 09:52PM

AMKC wrote: »

What would you do to fix it?

Me I think there should be an age limit of 30 or 35 before you can have a gun privately and that guns should not be sold with bullets in gun shops. You would get your bullets at the gun range.

So what should they do to solve it and stop more gun shootings from happening?

Do you think that guns should only be allowed to be used at gun ranges?

Agricola · 18-02-2018 09:55PM

- reinstate ban of firearms sales to people with mental illness, actually strengthen it
- preferably a blanket ban on the sale of military style rifles to civilians, but as there is no hope of that happening, bring in strict background checks for everyone who wishes to have a license for such a weapon, if there is anything dubious about the applicant = denied.
- strict limit on amount ammunition that can be bought at any one time
- No harm in introducing an age restriction as well, if you can't buy a drink til you're 21 over there, why own a gun? Some kind of graded system starting at 21 for peeshooters, ending at 25 or more for these assault rifles. You also need to be a paid gun club member for x number of years before you can legally licence a gun / requirement for character references from club members.

WoollyRedHat · 18-02-2018 09:56PM

whiskeyman wrote: »

I've got the solution to the gun problem.

But it'll probably get shot down...

Could you share with us in bullet points?

Are Am Eye · 18-02-2018 09:58PM

I don't think there's any silver bullet solution.

Manic Moran · 18-02-2018 10:03PM

I'd be happy to see laws similar to that of the Czech Republic where I am here in California.
Of course, that means loosening them, which I don't think the local politicians will go for.

Gatling · 18-02-2018 10:04PM

Not without a complete resetting of humanity in America and a civil war ,
Then it's possible until then the shootings go on, along with the excuses and defense against tyrannical government paronia that children are brainwashed with since birth

Mint Sauce · 18-02-2018 10:10PM

Whilst the NRA bankrolls alot of their politicians, cant see alot being done.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 18-02-2018 10:12PM

There's something like 300,000,000 guns in circulation in the USA, so that horse (banning gun ownership) has already bolted.

There's something running much deeper in American society than just a fascination with gun ownership. And tbh, you can kill as many people driving a truck through a crowded street as you can with a gun, so its not like they're short of the tools should guns magically disappear overnight.

Carlos Orange · 18-02-2018 10:39PM

Fiery mutant wrote: »

First they have to admit they have a problem. Once that happens then progress can be made. Hopefully this is the turning point where something will be done.

Don't see anything happening for a long while. America is obviously too divided atm.

When something does happen hopefully it focusses on the big issues not the flashy issues. Most gun deaths in the US are suicides and most gun homicides involve handguns.

Noveight · 18-02-2018 10:42PM

It would take a completely united effort to bring any change about and the States has never seemed more divided than it is now. "Us vs them" politics contributes very little towards real progress.

smurgen · 18-02-2018 10:47PM

Not a hope.america is basically on a trajectory that is seeing it become a 3rd world dump with gated communities,rampant homelessness and a more and more polarization.the gun violence is just another layer on the **** cake. We should count our lucky stars we live in Europe.

ongarite · 18-02-2018 10:49PM

Gun ownership rates are falling in the US.
Less than 25% of Americans own a gun.
A smaller and smaller % of that, 14%, own over half of all civilian guns.
Even before the Florida shooting, gun makers were facing plummeting profits and bankruptcy.

Controlling this population % will be extremely difficult as they are die hard NRA supporters.
Banning high power rifles, AR15 and similar would be a huge win but unlikely.

Time may eventually see things change if attitudes change over the years and ownership rates continue to fall.

Joeseph Balls · 18-02-2018 10:57PM

AMKC wrote: »

Me I think there should be an age limit of 30 or 35 before you can have a gun privately and that guns should not be sold with bullets in gun shops. You would get your bullets at the gun range.

Why the age limit?
There is approx 230,000 licenced firearms in Ireland. With no 30yr old age limit and no such legally held firearm shootings. Now I know the guns legally allowed to purchase in the US are more relaxed than here (I know of one ar15 licenced here), I don't think age is the problem.

doolox · 18-02-2018 11:05PM

At the start of the second world war America was at risk of being invaded by the Japanese and it was a very close run thing. For 6 months from Dec 41 to May 42 the US was fighting a tense holding pattern against the Japanese. One Japanese Admiral remarked that invading the mainland US would be futile as there would be a rifle behind every tree. Even in the 1940's the US was seen as being unusually well armed and most totalitarian nations knew this and recognised that invading and subjugating the US would be an impossibly tall order. Hitler characterised them as gun toting gangsters.

They had no such compunctions with other less well armed States and many suffered invasion as a result.

The US holds a special place for self reliance and independence at a very personal level which is almost alien to most western democracies.

The truth is that they have never been invaded by an outside power while Mexico and most South American countries have been invaded or raided by European and US forces in the mid to late 1800's.

The last time The US was invaded was in the war of 1812 and the Brits were kicked out by the Americans by the use of part time militia mostly equipped and armed privately by themselves.

It would be an almost impossible task to disarm the US to any useful extent because the ability to make and modify guns is already widespread and available in a vast part of the country. Merely taking and seizing existing guns would not be enough and would only drive the gun trade under ground. People would secretly hold and manufacture and trade in guns, such is the fear at grassroots level of being unarmed.

A similar situation exists in the northwest frontier of Pakistan where handmade AK47's and Browning M 1919 pistols are commonly traded and made by the people from basic materials and machine tools handed down through generations of craftsmen. Unless you intern an entire generation of gunsmiths and prevent them from passing on their skills to the next generation the elimination of guns will not happen.

Junkyard Tom · 18-02-2018 11:16PM

You'e more likely to be struck by lightning on the way to the airport.

Turtwig · 18-02-2018 11:20PM

Nope. Just like our attitude to alcohol it's a cultural issue that will forever be downplayed or ignored.

eeguy · 18-02-2018 11:23PM

Turtwig wrote: »

Nope. Just like our attitude to alcohol it's a cultural issue that will forever be downplayed or ignored.

The Irish attitude to alcohol is at a cultural level.
America has a cultural obsession with guns.

It's near impossible to change a culture in the short term. Just like we're seeing with alcohol, you can restrict sales and increase prices, but the Irish are still gonna get drunk and Americans are still gonna buy guns.

I don't believe people here and in Europe fully understand America's gun culture and how deeply ingrained it is.

Gorgeousgeorge · 18-02-2018 11:32PM

Joeseph Balls wrote: »

Why the age limit?
There is approx 230,000 licenced firearms in Ireland. With no 30yr old age limit and no such legally held firearm shootings. Now I know the guns legally allowed to purchase in the US are more relaxed than here (I know of one ar15 licenced here), I don't think age is the problem.

A semi auto centrefire .223 ar-15 licenced in ireland? I find it very hard to believe any super would issue that restricted licence

Gatling · 18-02-2018 11:34PM

Gorgeousgeorge wrote: »

A semi auto centrefire .223 ar-15 licenced in ireland? I find it very hard to believe any super would issue that restricted licence

I've seen several here

18-02-2018 11:37PM

AMKC wrote: »

What would you do to fix it?

It’s too late to “fix” it.
There are so many guns in circulation and there isn’t sufficient will to change anything.

18-02-2018 11:42PM

Gorgeousgeorge wrote: »

A semi auto centrefire .223 ar-15 licenced in ireland? I find it very hard to believe any super would issue that restricted licence

I have seen 3 licensed in the ROI.

KerranJast · 18-02-2018 11:42PM

There's nothing to "fix". They're happy with the status quo.

They make "aw sad" noises whenever something obscene like this happens but then rapidly default back to not giving a crap.

If a bunch of little kids getting murdered at Sandy Hook didn't cause a profound societal crisis and reexamination of the gun issue, then nothing will.

lukesmom · 18-02-2018 11:46PM

Nope. They will never fix it. Not while the republican party are in power. They are heavily funded by the national rifle association.
The majority of American people are pretty stupid too. Unfortunately they don't see a problem with selling weapons to 18 year olds.
The kids are so molly coddled, driven everywhere, afraid of everything. They are never taught how to solve problems themselves, using their own logic and brain. The first sign of a problem and it straight to the therapist that is on speed dial. So you run the risk of being left with many disillusioned kids that have access to all sorts of guns. Bizarre! They believe because its in the 2nd amendment of the constitution of 'Murica' that they have the God given right to keep guns and shoot each other if they are afraid. So a nation of constantly paranoid people who buy and wear guns to protect themselves from constantly paranoid people who buy and wear guns to protect themselves from..... And on it goes, collective insanity.

BorneTobyWilde · 18-02-2018 11:52PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taOFk38iEHM

NRA could at least pay for the 50$ locks for a school door.
Would be something.

donegaLroad · 18-02-2018 11:53PM

I know a guy from New England who moved here 15 odd years ago. When he moved over he made a request to the gardaí that he could ship over his gun collection. Of course this request was rejected, and we were asking him why the hell he would want his gun collection in Donegal. He said he missed having them.

I can only imagine that some night at a drunken party, these things would be produced and there would be a near miss of some sort, and a hole or two in the ceiling the morning after.

I saw it happen before one night in Cork where a flatmate produced a .22 rifle to show around. Everyone ducked for cover as one drunk guy swung it around the place for a laugh.

Noveight · 19-02-2018 12:00AM

KerranJast wrote: »

If a bunch of little kids getting murdered at Sandy Hook didn't cause a profound societal crisis and reexamination of the gun issue, then nothing will.

I've seen a few posters mention that in the wake of the Florida shooting. If the shooting of twenty 6 and 7 year old kids in their own school didn't drive change forward then nothing will.

rossie1977 · 19-02-2018 12:20AM

Right now the NRA and the NRA backed politicians hold sway over the rest of the population and nothing will be done while those politicians are in power. Like everything else the power is in the voters hands to elect people not in the pockets of the NRA going forward.

Just 3% of Americans own 50% of civilian weapons in circulation. 93% of all Americans believe mandatory background checks should be in place so the majority of the population will get behind efforts to a least try to do something.

dxhound2005 · 19-02-2018 12:24AM

There are some stats about guns in America which might be a surprise. 57% of people live in a household with no guns. Just 3%, known as super collectors, own more than half of all the guns. People living in rural areas are more likely to own a gun than urban dwellers.

The stand out one for me is that about 65% of all gun deaths are suicides. That compares to less than 2% from mass shootings.

Chrongen · 19-02-2018 12:28AM

People who want to own a gun have bigger problems than the society in which they live.

If you are afraid then you will always be afraid. If you are confident then you will always be confident.

People in America are always looking for ways to shield themselves from things that they don't want to accept as part of life and death.

People buy guns to shield themselves from an intruder that will probably never happen. They put helmets on a kid who is on a tricycle. They drive enormous cars, not for the roomy or space value but because they think it will protect them in a collision.

Americans are afraid of EVERYTHING. They don't like to see blood on TV because it's a reminder of their own fear of being hurt. .... real blood that is.

Americans do not have the capacity to actually face a danger that is, or might be, beyond their control. When things get worrisome they panic and look for a scapegoat. Even when things are going well they think that a threat is always there.

Guns soothe that pathology, somewhat.

Muahahaha · 19-02-2018 12:42AM

Not a hope it will change. I knew that once Sandy Hook happened. If American society can tolerate twenty 6 and 7 year old children getting gunned down then it can tolerate anything to keep the right to bear arms.

eeguy · 19-02-2018 12:48AM

Chrongen wrote: »

People who want to own a gun have bigger problems than the society in which they live.

If you are afraid then you will always be afraid. If you are confident then you will always be confident.

People in America are always looking for ways to shield themselves from things that they don't want to accept as part of life and death.

People buy guns to shield themselves from an intruder that will probably never happen. They put helmets on a kid who is on a tricycle. They drive enormous cars, not for the roomy or space value but because they think it will protect them in a collision.

Americans are afraid of EVERYTHING. They don't like to see blood on TV because it's a reminder of their own fear of being hurt. .... real blood that is.

Americans do not have the capacity to actually face a danger that is, or might be, beyond their control. When things get worrisome they panic and look for a scapegoat. Even when things are going well they think that a threat is always there.

Guns soothe that pathology, somewhat.

What you're describing is merely the minority. There's a hundred reasons to own a gun in the US. Not just fear of a home invasion.

As I said, gun ownership in the US is a culture. If you're not part of it and don't live it then you can't understand it.

Many of my American friends own guns, same as you'd own a fishing rod. It's a great hobby, just head out with a few hundred rounds and some targets, or go hunting, or head to the range, or buy and sell guns in the same way enthusiasts of any hobby buy and sell stuff.
If you're in the midwest, going shooting is actually a good idea for a date

JupiterKid · 19-02-2018 12:53AM

The sick obsession with guns, the sheer ignorance and fear of the world beyond their borders and shores, the cult of evangelical religion, the escapism of a violent and dumbed down media industry, the need to blame others for one's own failings, a highly partisan news industry and ridiculous Victorian prudery around nudity despite a thriving and exploitative hardcore porn industry.

It is all interlinked. The USA is a highly insular, immature society in the main. At one point - probably around the time of JFKs presidency in the early 1960s, the nation was at its most united and the future (Cold war threat excepted) seemed bright. Since then and especially after Reagan, it has been downhill all the way.

eeguy · 19-02-2018 01:02AM

JupiterKid wrote: »

The sick osession with guns,

We have a sick obsession with alcohol

JupiterKid wrote: »

the sheer ignorance and fear of the sorld beyond their borders and shores

What's that based on? Everywhere I've been there's been hordes of US tourists, especially everywhere in Ireland. If you're talking about fears of immigration and terrorism, well that's why Brexit passed.

, the cult of evangelical religion

We still have plenty of problems with religion in this country, regarding legacy of abuse and the churches influence on politics and education

the escapism of a violent and dumbed down media industry

The breadth of US media industry spans from the dumbest puerile humour, to the best and most intelligent programming available

the need to blame others for one's own failings

"It's not my fault I bought a 400k house on a 20k salary, it's the bank and the government"

a highly partisan news industry

Can't argue with that...

ridiculous Victorian prudery around nudity....

Makes the majority of the world's porn

The generalization in this thread is horrendous. The only way to make inroads into these issues is to understand them.

JupiterKid · 19-02-2018 01:07AM

eeguy wrote: »

We have a sick obsession with alcohol What's that based on? Everywhere I've been there's been hordes of US tourists, especially everywhere in Ireland. If you're talking about fears of immigration and terrorism, well that's why Brexit passed. We still have plenty of problems with religion in this country, regarding legacy of abuse and the churches influence on politics and education
The breadth of US media industry spans from the dumbest puerile humour, to the best and most intelligent programming available
"It's not my fault I bought a 400k house on a 20k salary, it's the bank and the government"
Can't argue with that...
Makes the majority of the world's porn

The generalization in this thread is horrendous. The only way to make inroads into these issues is to understand them.

I lived in the USA for a few years - I think I know the country better than some others on this thread. I have a number of good American friends who don't own guns, are liberal in their social outlook and are horrified at the direction their country is taking under Trump. I still hold firm to my views about the country.

eeguy · 19-02-2018 01:13AM

JupiterKid wrote: »

I lived in the USA for a few years - I think I know the country better than some others on this thread. I have a number of good American friends who don't own guns, are liberal in their social outlook and are horrified at the direction their country is taking under Trump. I still hold firm to my views about the country.

American's are not one homogeneous group of people. You can't generalise.
You may have lived in a liberal area which had a negative view of ownership. I lived in the opposite. Personally, I think a gun is a tool, which I have no use for, especially in Ireland, but gun ownership is a big hobby in the US and it's glamorized.

They're not going to give up their guns and quicker than we'd give up alcohol.

ED E · 19-02-2018 01:13AM

3D printing firearms is now a reality. We're passed Govt control.

The US needs mental health services more than it needs gun legislation it doesnt have the ability to enforce.

eeguy · 19-02-2018 01:16AM

ED E wrote: »

3D printing firearms is now a reality. We're passed Govt control.

The US needs mental health services more than it needs gun legislation it doesnt have the ability to enforce.

3D printed guns are just a media scare. You can make a more reliable gun with a piece of pipe, a nail and a spring.

Del2005 · 19-02-2018 01:26AM

American doesn't have a gun problem it has a massive mental health problem.

They also have a huge problem with DUI and serious crashes, should they ban cars. Is the cake responsible for the fat person?

Until they fix their mental health system and stop glorifying mass shooters with 24/7 coverage they'll have mass murder. If they ban guns then they will just get the people with serious issues renting big rigs and driving into crowds.

Maybe part of the solution is to not name the people who do mass murder so they will not get the fame they are looking for.

Edit... Just to add Europe is now seeing the same issues with the recent terrorist attacks. They have shown that you don't need a gun to commit mass murder. What do we ban to solve this problem?

diomed · 19-02-2018 01:35AM

They like shooting people.
The USA has been at war 222 out of 239 years, 93% of the time since 1776.
The USA has an itchy trigger finger.

A bit like England has been at war / had a military presence in about 90% of countries.

eeguy · 19-02-2018 01:36AM

Del2005 wrote: »

American doesn't have a gun problem it has a massive mental health problem.

They also have a huge problem with DUI and serious crashes, should they ban cars. Is the cake responsible for the fat person?

Until they fix their mental health system and stop glorifying mass shooters with 24/7 coverage they'll have mass murder. If they ban guns then they will just get the people with serious issues renting big rigs and driving into crowds.

Maybe part of the solution is to not name the people who do mass murder so they will not get the fame they are looking for.

Exactly. Shootings should be treated like suicides. Totally unreported in the media, but examined by the authorities. Remove the NRA pressure on stopping gun violence research would be a fantastic step forward:
http://www.businessinsider.com/cdc-nra-kills-gun-violence-research-2013-1?IR=T

rossie1977 · 19-02-2018 01:58AM

There are mental health issues in every country. New Zealand and Australia are among the worst effected. Here in Ireland you have people with mental health issues walking down the street in every town and city in the country.

The difference between US and New Zealand, Australia and Ireland is the ease by which you have access to deadly weapons. Once again the countries with the most guns in public circulation have the most gun deaths.

Nobody needs an AR-15 for home protection or hunting. A shotgun would suffice in both situations and a shotgun probably isn't going to kill 17 people in a school or 60 people from 1/4 of a mile away. If you want to fire a semi or automatic weapon for fun there are tons of gun ranges throughout the country.

diomed · 19-02-2018 02:02AM

rossie1977 wrote: »

If you want to fire a semi or automatic weapon for fun there are tons of gun ranges throughout the country.

Or buy a shoot 'em up computer game for an entertainment system.
The only reason people buy guns is to shoot other people, although they might say they are hunters. They don't need to hunt for food except in extremely remote areas.

ED E · 19-02-2018 02:05AM

eeguy wrote: »

3D printed guns are just a media scare. You can make a more reliable gun with a piece of pipe, a nail and a spring.

https://www.wired.com/2015/06/i-made-an-untraceable-ar-15-ghost-gun/

Note: I did bastardise the term 3D print as not everyone knows what a CNC is. The point is the hardware is readily accessible. Soon the need to have a premilled block will be gone.

Manic Moran · 19-02-2018 02:07AM

eeguy wrote: »

3D printed guns are just a media scare. You can make a more reliable gun with a piece of pipe, a nail and a spring.

Umm.. You might want to look that one up. The first fully 3D printed weapon (not a 'receiver only' which is the legal part of a gun in the US) to survive at least 500 rounds was a replica 1911 Colt .45 way back in 2013. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2L3QP5qVgo . Granted, it required an incredibly expensive 3D printer to do it, but then again, technology has slightly advanced in the 3D printing world since then.

3D-printed receivers (The legal, registered part of a firearm), however, now have been tested to fire thousands of rounds before failure. Plenty enough for a massacre or two, or a bank robbery, etc. A reasonable 3D printer costing about $800 will do an acceptable job. If you have, say, $2000, you're sorted.

Currently, there is not a huge swathe of folks going this route except for novelty value, as it's basically cheaper to make your own metal receiver at home instead. It's not as if firearms technology is arcane, we've been making the things for over four centuries, it just requires a bit of effort. A typical jig costs maybe $200, https://www.80percentarms.com/collections/lower-jigs , you purchase the unfinished receiver, and finish it yourself.

If you are particularly lazy, or really don't trust yourself with jigs and power tools, $1,695 plus shipping and handling will get your own GhostGunner 2 computer-controlled, CNC mill specifically designed to let anyone build their receiver at home. https://ghostgunner.net/products/ghost-gunner . Plug in to your laptop, insert the receiver block, push button, wait.

In some States, you are required to report the creation of your new firearm to the government. Of course, there's no way of knowing if you don't.

America's gun problem Do you think they will ever fix it?

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