Turas Nua - What are my rights?

baalad · 02-01-2018 06:13PM #1

Hi guys. I recently got a letter from Turas Nua stating i was to attend a meeting around the beginning of December. That was fine but i was working on the day the meeting was scheduled for (Iam a Part Time worker at present)

I called them and explained i was unable to attend and that it would be difficult to commit to any meetings scheduled at Xmas time as i work in retail and my hours were being changed at the time so i had no set work days so to speak! I did not refuse to attend nor co-operate with them. I merely stated it was difficult for me to commit to any meetings and that once xmas was over and work is not so crazy then i would be able to attend more reliably. The guy i spoke to was understanding and he just said that they would send me an appointment for early January. I also went out of my way to notify the Social Welfare as my understanding was that ultimately its them that make the decisions regarding Turas Nua. Likewise they were understanding and it was no big deal putting off the meeting for 2/3 weeks.

The very next week however i received a letter stating that i failed to attend the meeting and failed to notify them lol I was threatened with losing my X&0's payment if i failed to attend the next meeting which they AGAIN scheduled before Xmas. Luckily enough i was off on this particular day and able to attend!

I turn up for the meeting anyhow and was then told "Oh your not supposed to be here until Monday" That letter you have in your hand is wrong! Sure now that your here take a seat and ill give you a quick run down on why your here! Fair enough i thought!

He then proceeded to ask me personal questions and dig deeper and deeper with regards my work! He wanted to know exactly where it was located for a start. To the point where i had to give directions! Now i have nothing to hide and everything is above board etc regarding work so i did not mind giving him the details etc but 3 days later he shows up at my work place, looks around and says nothing to me!

Fast forward to today - I receive another appointment in the post and iam also being asked to bring proof with me to the next meeting to show them the days and hours i worked throughout December!

I have no problem providing this information simply because iam 100% not doing anything wrong or hiding anything! However, Iam kinda pissed off as i feel iam being treated as if iam some sort of scumbag! I didnt appreciate them sending the someone in to my workplace to pretty much spy on me and now they are challenging me to provide proof (which is fine) but they are essentially challenging me to prove myself because they obviously think iam lying to them!

What are my rights with these people? Part of me is happy to give them what they want but at the same time i feel like telling them to mind there own f'n business and to stop borderline harassing me and spying on me!

Tenigate · 02-01-2018 08:28PM

I'm assuming X's and O's suits you. But end of the day you're claiming jobseekers so be prepared to jump through the hoops. It's free money. Edit: it's not free, it's taxpayer money

Rather than complicate things, accept your appointment. If you are rostered to work, reschedule the appointment or ask your employer to swap your shift.

baalad · 02-01-2018 08:37PM

Tenigate wrote: »

I'm assuming X's and O's suits you. But end of the day you're claiming jobseekers so be prepared to jump through the hoops. It's free money.

Rather than complicate things, accept your appointment. If you are rostered to work, reschedule the appointment or ask your employer to swap your shift.

Well not particularly, no. Im happy to accept help in finding full time employment and had plans to look for full time employment in the new year anyhow. My problem is the are more interested in my personal life then they are in helping me find work. I mean turning up to my job is not cool and made me feel very uncomfortable. And then asking me to essentially prove that i was unable to make the appointment before Christmas is a bit much like! I have literally missed one appointment and they are challenging me to provide evidence of days worked etc They can have their evidence but theres no need to treat me like iam some sort of scammer! Meanwhile the real scammers and scumbags seem to get away with even attending these meetings!

Tenigate · 02-01-2018 08:43PM

There's not a major difference between you and the people you describe as the scammers and scumbags. You're all "takers". Just so happens their tactics are more effective on people like you.

baalad · 02-01-2018 08:59PM

Tenigate wrote: »

There's not a major difference between you and the people you describe as the scammers and scumbags. You're all "takers". Just so happens their tactics are more effective on people like you.

I understand the point your making. I meant scammers as in people that perhaps work on the side and should not even be getting any jobseekers benefit at all. Im happy to co-operate as i said anyhow. I just feel they are goin over the top with turning up to my workplace and asking me to prove what hours i worked just because i cancelled one appointment!

Tenigate · 02-01-2018 09:06PM

Maybe.. but that's the price of "big government'

ilovethistles · 02-01-2018 09:10PM

Tenigate wrote: »

There's not a major difference between you and the people you describe as the scammers and scumbags. You're all "takers". Just so happens their tactics are more effective on people like you.

There's a big difference between somebody receiving social welfare that they are entitled to when needed and 'scammers' who make a living from the system. Just because someone needs social welfare assistance doesn't mean they should be treated less than others or with less respect or dignity.
There are numerous reasons why people need assistance (that's what it's there for) and they should be treated with respect by the state.

delly · 02-01-2018 09:22PM

In fairness, I have some sympathy for the OP. Based on the described circumstances, someone who is in the system and will jump through whatever hoops are necessary to keep getting benefits, but is fully legitimate. Yet there are more difficult clients of the social welfare system who will provide zero assistance to those who manage it, but will continue to receive payment year after year. Similar setup with revenue defaulters, individual paye workers get very little slack, big fish and businesses get deals on tax evasion all the time.

ilovethistles · 03-01-2018 07:23AM

baalad wrote: »

Hi guys. I recently got a letter from Turas Nua stating i was to attend a meeting around the beginning of December. That was fine but i was working on the day the meeting was scheduled for (Iam a Part Time worker at present)

I called them and explained i was unable to attend and that it would be difficult to commit to any meetings scheduled at Xmas time as i work in retail and my hours were being changed at the time so i had no set work days so to speak! I did not refuse to attend nor co-operate with them. I merely stated it was difficult for me to commit to any meetings and that once xmas was over and work is not so crazy then i would be able to attend more reliably. The guy i spoke to was understanding and he just said that they would send me an appointment for early January. I also went out of my way to notify the Social Welfare as my understanding was that ultimately its them that make the decisions regarding Turas Nua. Likewise they were understanding and it was no big deal putting off the meeting for 2/3 weeks.

The very next week however i received a letter stating that i failed to attend the meeting and failed to notify them lol I was threatened with losing my X&0's payment if i failed to attend the next meeting which they AGAIN scheduled before Xmas. Luckily enough i was off on this particular day and able to attend!

I turn up for the meeting anyhow and was then told "Oh your not supposed to be here until Monday" That letter you have in your hand is wrong! Sure now that your here take a seat and ill give you a quick run down on why your here! Fair enough i thought!

He then proceeded to ask me personal questions and dig deeper and deeper with regards my work! He wanted to know exactly where it was located for a start. To the point where i had to give directions! Now i have nothing to hide and everything is above board etc regarding work so i did not mind giving him the details etc but 3 days later he shows up at my work place, looks around and says nothing to me!

Fast forward to today - I receive another appointment in the post and iam also being asked to bring proof with me to the next meeting to show them the days and hours i worked throughout December!

I have no problem providing this information simply because iam 100% not doing anything wrong or hiding anything! However, Iam kinda pissed off as i feel iam being treated as if iam some sort of scumbag! I didnt appreciate them sending the someone in to my workplace to pretty much spy on me and now they are challenging me to provide proof (which is fine) but they are essentially challenging me to prove myself because they obviously think iam lying to them!

What are my rights with these people? Part of me is happy to give them what they want but at the same time i feel like telling them to mind there own f'n business and to stop borderline harassing me and spying on me!

In response to your query op, you could complain to social welfare HQ as Turas Nua in effect are sub contracted for them or you could complain to the ombudsman.

While they do have a somewhat investigative job to do, I would question their limitations and tactics. I have heard similar stories of the way they carry out their business.
As I said in my previous post, regardless of your circumstances you deserve to be treated with respect and dignity.

na1 · 03-01-2018 06:00PM

ilovethistles wrote: »

Tenigate wrote: »

There's not a major difference between you and the people you describe as the scammers and scumbags. You're all "takers". Just so happens their tactics are more effective on people like you.

There's a big difference between somebody receiving social welfare that they are entitled to when needed and 'scammers' who make a living from the system. Just because someone needs social welfare assistance doesn't mean they should be treated less than others or with less respect or dignity.
There are numerous reasons why people need assistance (that's what it's there for) and they should be treated with respect by the state.

Do you make complaints to the airport security, when they:
-delay your pass though the security gates by up to 30 minutes or more in some cases?
-make you take off your shoes and other clothes items, and step bare feet on the floor - potentially catching some infections?
-take out and check your personal items from the bag publicly?
-making you pass though a body scanner -which displays your body underneath the clothes?
After all you are not a terrorist or a criminal? Why should you being humiliated?

ilovethistles · 03-01-2018 07:25PM

na1 wrote: »

Do you make complaints to the airport security, when they:
-delay your pass though the security gates by up to 30 minutes or more in some cases?
-make you take off your shoes and other clothes items, and step bare feet on the floor - potentially catching some infections?
-take out and check your personal items from the bag publicly?
-making you pass though a body scanner -which displays your body underneath the clothes?
After all you are not a terrorist or a criminal? Why should you being humiliated?

I think whilst carrying out their duties, which may be unpleasant or invasive they should still treat people with respect.

john.han · 03-01-2018 07:43PM

na1 wrote: »

Do you make complaints to the airport security, when they:
-delay your pass though the security gates by up to 30 minutes or more in some cases?
-make you take off your shoes and other clothes items, and step bare feet on the floor - potentially catching some infections?
-take out and check your personal items from the bag publicly?
-making you pass though a body scanner -which displays your body underneath the clothes?
After all you are not a terrorist or a criminal? Why should you being humiliated?

That's a completely false equivalency. Airport Security is based on a risk to public safety and so has to be primarily random.

Welfare fraud detection should be nuanced and based to a greater degree on measuring risk. Why turn up at someone's workplace on a day they indicated they were working... that's a day they're not claiming.

Turas Nua is too focused on getting what they consider or can record as a result. It's probably easier and more likely that a part time worker will return to or find full time employment and they can mark it off as them doing a good job. In the meantime they won't bother with the long-term claimants because they're much harder to get a result for. In the long-term what Turas Nua are like now will only make the situation much worse with regards people on benefits most of their lives. They will focus on statistics looking better, not on focusing where the hard work actually is.

nilescraneo · 03-01-2018 11:27PM

Tenigate wrote: »

There's not a major difference between you and the people you describe as the scammers and scumbags. You're all "takers". Just so happens their tactics are more effective on people like you.

Piss off, the OP is working and has been honest with TN and the DSP and is still being hounded and threatened with sanctions. That's a huge difference from someone deliberately falsifying working hours or claiming welfare whilst not declaring work at all.

Turas Nua are a private business operated by FRS recruitment and an English company called Working Links, the latter of which has a dubious record of fraud running similar schemes in the UK. I would imagine they are hounding you because they get a bonus from the government for each person they 'get' full time employment for (they had 0 to do with finding me FT work last year, but hounded me for a month after I signed off for details of my new employer so they could claim their bonus) and see you as an easy target to push into FT work seeing as you are working PT.

Tenigate · 04-01-2018 09:34AM

nilescraneo wrote: »

Piss off, the OP is working and has been honest with TN and the DSP and is still being hounded and threatened with sanctions. That's a huge difference from someone deliberately falsifying working hours or claiming welfare whilst not declaring work at all.

I'm not here to argue. I've stated my point of view to the op.. in the view of dsp, they are making a social welfare payment to some one who is available to work. In the view of turas, the dsp is a client and the op is "low hanging fruit". Your view of what's fair or who's more deserving really doesn't come into it. But 10/10 for the virtue signalling.

na1 · 04-01-2018 11:59AM

Welfare fraud detection should be nuanced and based to a greater degree on measuring risk. Why turn up at someone's workplace on a day they indicated they were working... that's a day they're not claiming.

Lets assume you are working at Turas Nua and hold a meeting with several people on JA. One of the person refused to attend, claiming he will be working that day. You want to check that he's really working that day and not sitting at home watching tv, or drinking at the pub, or playing golf, what would you do?

Turas Nua is too focused on getting what they consider or can record as a result. It's probably easier and more likely that a part time worker will return to or find full time employment and they can mark it off as them doing a good job. In the meantime they won't bother with the long-term claimants because they're much harder to get a result for. In the long-term what Turas Nua are like now will only make the situation much worse with regards people on benefits most of their lives. They will focus on statistics looking better, not on focusing where the hard work actually is.

If there is a weak taxation law which allows some business to avoid paying tax. And the business is actively using it. Would you blame the business or the state?

john.han · 04-01-2018 01:27PM

na1 wrote: »

Lets assume you are working at Turas Nua and hold a meeting with several people on JA. One of the person refused to attend, claiming he will be working that day. You want to check that he's really working that day and not sitting at home watching tv, or drinking at the pub, or playing golf, what would you do?

I'd ask them what days they are not working and schedule a meeting for a day that mutually suits. On a day they are working they don't get jobseekers.

na1 wrote: »

If there is a weak taxation law which allows some business to avoid paying tax. And the business is actively using it. Would you blame the business or the state?

I'd blame the state primarily. Not sure what that has to do with anything.

ilovethistles · 05-01-2018 06:24AM

Tenigate wrote: »

I'm not here to argue. I've stated my point of view to the op.. in the view of dsp, they are making a social welfare payment to some one who is available to work. In the view of turas, the dsp is a client and the op is "low hanging fruit". Your view of what's fair or who's more deserving really doesn't come into it. But 10/10 for the virtue signalling.

Actually, it's because he is available to work he is eligible for social welfare, if he were not available for work he wouldn't be entitled to jobseekers (the clue is in the name). The op if far from 'low hanging fruit' as you put it... There is an ethos held within the civil service that each member of the public should be delt with the assumption of honesty, this reinforces the other values of dignity and respect in carrying out duties.
Turns Nua are afaik an outsourced company, but this still does not give them the right to hound or harass anyone.

In fact it is these tactics that will inevitably be its own demise, especially if people complain where necessary imo.

Wanderer78 · 05-01-2018 07:24AM

Has turas nua ever been successful in blocking a persons welfare payment?

ilovethistles · 05-01-2018 09:00AM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Has turas nua ever been successful in blocking a persons welfare payment?

I have no idea I'm afraid.

Wanderer78 · 05-01-2018 09:02AM

ilovethistles wrote: »

I have no idea I'm afraid.

id love to know, im wondering are their threats just that

ilovethistles · 05-01-2018 09:03AM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

id love to know, im wondering are their threats just that

Yeah it would be interesting to know all right.

ilovethistles · 05-01-2018 09:03AM

ilovethistles wrote: »

Yeah it would be interesting to know all right.

I can't imagine they'd have too much power, legally.

Wanderer78 · 05-01-2018 09:04AM

im thinking the same, but id still like to know the actual truth

Sonics2k · 13-01-2018 04:47PM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Has turas nua ever been successful in blocking a persons welfare payment?

Turas Nua have no direct power to cut off a welfare payment.

However, they are contracted to inform the Department of Social Protection if a person hasn't been engaging with them, and then the DSP will (most likely) decide to stop any future payments.

Conall Cernach · 13-01-2018 04:55PM

Sonics2k wrote: »

Turas Nua have no direct power to cut off a welfare payment.

However, they are contracted to inform the Department of Social Protection if a person hasn't been engaging with them, and then the DSP will (most likely) decide to stop any future payments.

This is what happens. They contact the DEASP who will write to the claimant saying that payment will be stopped because they did not attend a meeting etc. They will usually be informed that they have one last chance and they must attend on such and such a day. If they don't attend then the payment is stopped and the claimant has to go through the review/appeals process to get it restarted.

EmmaBX · 06-04-2018 12:48PM

Tenigate wrote: »

There's not a major difference between you and the people you describe as the scammers and scumbags. You're all "takers". Just so happens their tactics are more effective on people like you.

"Takers"??? "People like you"????

I hope one day you or a family member needs to sign on so you and yours can be considered "takers" also

Kk333 · 21-05-2018 04:17PM

Tenigate wrote: »

I'm assuming X's and O's suits you. But end of the day you're claiming jobseekers so be prepared to jump through the hoops. It's free money. Edit: it's not free, it's taxpayer money

Rather than complicate things, accept your appointment. If you are rostered to work, reschedule the appointment or ask your employer to swap your shift.

what are you doing on a thread about social welfare if you have nothing but contempt for people who find themselves on it? Governments around the world love fools like you. Blame everything on a small few people for the countries woes. Im sure you gave your children's allowances back or to charity if you have a well paid job and had kids? If not your a hypocrite as this is social welfare.

solo1y · 30-08-2018 05:01PM

Tenigate wrote: »

I'm not here to argue.
...
Your view of what's fair or who's more deserving really doesn't come into it. But 10/10 for the virtue signalling.

For someone who's not here to argue, you sure post some argumentative things.

Also, I'm not a fan of virtue signalling, but it sure beats asshat signalling.

Turas Nua - What are my rights?

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