Is the new Feminist movement damaging male female relationships?

suicide_circus · 17-04-2018 04:57PM

Until men can get pregnant and have children there will never be equality of outcome for the sexes.

hatrickpatrick · 17-04-2018 04:58PM

beefburrito wrote: »

Sugar and spice and all things nice....

That's the sht we had to sing going to school during the 70's

Absolutely disgraceful, talk about us all being equal...

Nothing worse than being made think you're made of puppy dog's tails...

Made a lad want to puff the magic dragon...

Am I allowd to say puff?

This is exactly the kind of sh!t I'm talking about when I say that boys are frequently exposed to a message which says that girls are just inherently better people, especially at an age when they're far too young to take such a comment at anything other than face value. The idea that this doesn't do psychological harm to at least some of them is moronic.

17-04-2018 04:59PM

Appledreams15 wrote: »

We are 50 per cent women and 50 per cent men. Women have never been anyway near half represented in politics. Of course they have been discriminated against.

They were discriminated against in the past. We have a clear system of laws to protect womens rights against discrimination.

Can you prove to me that women are being discriminated against in Politics now?

I'd genuinely like to know.

ArthurDayne · 17-04-2018 05:00PM

My honest belief is that the current climate of feminism and those who advocate something-approaching-feminism-but-not-quite-feminism are targeting the wrong things -- or perhaps rather are casting their net far too wide in the attempts of dredging up examples of misogyny. The prevalence of words like 'slut' in private conversation (among both males and females) is not definitively indicative of some sliding in standards for the respect of women -- but is actually also indicative of the normalisation of women's sexual liberation. 'Slut' is simply a connotation for a woman who is promiscuous / has multiple casual sex partners -- but promiscuity and having sex with lots of people are things which we are increasingly becoming more accepting of, whether you're male or female (and rightly so). Therefore -- the word slut has become meaningless to a lot of people in private banter because the very thing it connotates is something many if not most of us don't really care about anymore!

Having said that, as everyone knows, the word 'slut' can indeed offend people, which is why it is not a word which should be fired out indiscriminately to the world at large, and care is needed in understanding that the word may affect some people more than others (but I do think most people abide by this anyway!). But crucifying people for saying it in private is not going to further the cause of equality, tolerance and justice. I am a passionate believer in gender equality, not just in the legal sense, but also the empowerment of female sexuality. Yet simply because I use the word 'slut' sometimes, this would negate my passion in the eyes of many -- who would presume to have the measure of my beliefs on the basis of the silly utterances I make to my friends etc. This to me seems a haphazard and careless way of identifying true misogyny.

Just my two cents.

Appledreams15 · 17-04-2018 05:01PM

Deleted User wrote: »

They were discriminated against in the past. We have a clear system of laws to protect womens rights against discrimination.

Can you prove to me that women are being discriminated against in Politics now?

I'd genuinely like to know.

So why do you think they brought the gender quota in, to get male parties to have to nominate female candidates,or they will lose their funding?

Why, because they were sexist that's why.

17-04-2018 05:02PM

suicide_circus wrote: »

Until men can get pregnant and have children there will never be equality of outcome for the sexes.

Does that make women who can't have children less female? After all, if the identity of being a woman revolves around being able to have children, as opposed to men not being able to....

Appledreams15 · 17-04-2018 05:03PM

ArthurDayne wrote: »

My honest belief is that the current climate of feminism and those who advocate something-approaching-feminism-but-not-quite-feminism are targeting the wrong things -- or perhaps rather are casting their net far too wide in the attempts of dredging up examples of misogyny. The prevalence of words like 'slut' in private conversation (among both males and females) is not definitively indicative of some sliding in standards for the respect of women -- but is actually also indicative of the normalisation of women's sexual liberation. 'Slut' is simply a connotation for a woman who is promiscuous / has multiple casual sex partners -- but promiscuity and having sex with lots of people are things which we are increasingly becoming more accepting of, whether you're male or female (and rightly so). Therefore -- the word slut has become meaningless to a lot of people in private banter because the very thing it connotates is something many if not most of us don't really care about anymore!

Having said that, as everyone knows, the word 'slut' can indeed offend people, which is why it is not a word which should be fired out indiscriminately to the world at large, and care is needed in understanding that the word may affect some people more than others (but I do think most people abide by this anyway!). But crucifying people for saying it in private is not going to further the cause of equality, tolerance and justice. I am a passionate believer in gender equality, not just in the legal sense, but also the empowerment of female sexuality. Yet simply because I use the word 'slut' sometimes, this would negate my passion in the eyes of many -- who would presume to have the measure of my beliefs on the basis of the silly utterances I make to my friends etc. This to me seems a haphazard and careless way of identifying true misogyny.

Just my two cents.

Men think about feminism more than women ever do. You'd wonder just what they are afraid of

17-04-2018 05:05PM

Appledreams15 wrote: »

So why do you think they brought the gender quota in, to get male parties to have to nominate female candidates,or they will lose their funding?

Why, because they were sexist that's why.

No, no, no. You made a point about gender discrimination in politics. Do some legwork and provide some proof to support your statement.

And no, I'd imagine it's this belief that women need to be equally (if not more than equally) represented in any industry that appeals to them. But I'd be happy to be shown otherwise.

silverharp · 17-04-2018 05:06PM

Appledreams15 wrote: »

Men think about feminism more than women ever do. You'd wonder just what they are afraid of

the government tends not to listen to men, they do listen to women though and feminists tend to be the noisy sub group while other women are just getting on with their lives.

Appledreams15 · 17-04-2018 05:07PM

Deleted User wrote: »

No, no, no. You made a point about gender discrimination in politics. Do some legwork and provide some proof to support your statement.

And no, I'd imagine it's this belief that women need to be equally (if not more than equally) represented in any industry that appeals to them. But I'd be happy to be shown otherwise.

Don't tell me to do some legwork and provide some proof. I just pointed out what is glaringly obvious.
Political parties in ireland were made to implement gender quotas because they were sexist.
Fact.
What do you think about the fact that Ireland has been flagged for human rights abuses of women by the United Nations?

Appledreams15 · 17-04-2018 05:08PM

silverharp wrote: »

the government tends not to listen to men, they do listen to women though and feminists tend to be the noisy sub group while other women are just getting on with their lives.

Don't be so afraid of women.

boylecm · 17-04-2018 05:09PM

Personally haven't seen any changes in male/female relationships due to modern feminism. Tinder has been the big change.

Lu Tze · 17-04-2018 05:11PM

Appledreams15 wrote: »

They had to bring in gender quotas to get predominatly male parties to nominate at least 30% female candidates.

They were not even nominating 30% female candidates before this.

Surely you know this is true. It is evident.

Discrimination is still a big assumption here.

What's cause of the disparity in the independents then? Where are the female party membership? They can do something about it. Are there less female members than male? Is this also discrimination? Or is there less inclination to get involved in politics?

Higher female membership in parties will result in higher gender vote (if they vote or nominate on those lines) and more and higher quality potential female candidates to choose from.

Outlaw Pete · 17-04-2018 05:11PM

Grayson wrote: »

How often do I have to point out that one single story about women groping men in kilts does not illustrate a trend.

Grayson, no matter how many links you are given to support a view, you come back and say that one story doesn't mean anything. Again and again and again. Incidentally, I didn't post the story to suggest a trend anyway. If you were paying attention you would have seen that I was replying to the user moaning about women being objectified and I was merely asking them how they felt when women groped men and used that particular situation as an example.

You are not being oppressed by feminism. Feminism is an objective good thing.

In one ear and out the other. Feminism today is not a 'good thing'. It's very much a bad thing. A dangerous thing. A sexist thing. A misandric thing. In the UK they are currently having to reverse Police procedures brought in at the behest of Feminist lobbying given that it resulted in so many rape trials collapsing. In Ireland we have feminists (like the NWCI, funded by the tax payer I might add) telling young women that they should automatically believe the woman in sexual assault and rape trials. Then encourages them to protest jury verdict when conviction is not secured. Feminism is a good thing, Grayson? Come on.

Feminism is about equality.

The only people who seem to be annoyed with it are people who feel that they are losing out. And if you're losing out because of equality it means you shouldn't have had the advantage that you're losing.

Again, this kind of bullshit comment just shows you don't pay attention to users in the threads which you take part in. If Feminism was just about equality, then nobody would ever complain. Camille Paglia, Christine Hoff Sommers, and women like them have written books about the ills and of modern feminism. Do you think they are making it all up or something? Try listening for once:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXGm9kvgslc

LirW · 17-04-2018 05:11PM

givyjoe wrote: »

How exactly? And if they were, how exactly are they still being discriminated against?

Well, first of all politics doesn't work that way of just showing up and saying "I'm here, I'm a politician now".
Parties have a pretty strict hierarchy and when you enter, unless you have mad connections, you are at the very basic level. On that level you'd usually see a good mix of both genders.
But when it comes to progressing within the parties, there are a lot of factors in play. Generally the more conservative a party is, the higher the percentage of men on the top level.
A female candidate has to present conservative to represent the party values, you'd be surprised about how much weight her family values and her views on children have. All that does only marginally apply to male candidates.
Also, and don't get me wrong, a lot of high positions are simply filled with some old gits that see the young girls as good enough to do the dirty work but would never consider them in a higher position. Sexual harassment within parties is still a thing and women in politics have to put up with it if they wanna get somewhere, this exploitation isn't a Hollywood cliche and still happens.
Something that stands out in female candidates is that a lot of them have some kind of political heavyweight in their family already or a partner, that is fairly well known. Of course that applies to male ones too, not denying that but you'd have a lot more men "coming from the bottom level" than women.

Don't get me wrong, politics is a very cut throat environment in general, you have to be cut throat yourself. But you doing well depends on a lot of other factors than simply having the drive to do it.
Was involved in my early 20 in politics a good bit and it's a grim field and wouldn't want to enter that again, ever ever ever.

cantdecide · 17-04-2018 05:12PM

silverharp wrote: »

the government tends not to listen to men, they do listen to women though and feminists tend to be the noisy sub group while other women are just getting on with their lives.

This also brings up the idea of 'representation' - if your group's interests are being represented - isn't that more important than their contents of their underpants?

In that sense, are women not very well 'represented' in politics and in the media - at least as well as men?

ArthurDayne · 17-04-2018 05:14PM

Appledreams15 wrote: »

Men think about feminism more than women ever do. You'd wonder just what they are afraid of

A perfect example of the exact thing I am talking about. I write a post which may well have been all total drivel in the eyes of another reader, but at the very least tried to give it some thought. Your response is simply to fire back some one-liner about men being scared of feminism.

As I said in my post -- I am a strong believer in gender equality and a believer in female sexual liberation. I accept that there is still a way to go in achieving equality, but it will only be achieved when we can all talk and reason together -- rather than fling labels at people straight off the bat or make assumptions about them.

In short, why alienate me?

Appledreams15 · 17-04-2018 05:14PM

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Grayson, no matter how many links you are given to support a view, you come back and say that one story doesn't mean anything. Again and again and again. Incidentally, I didn't post the story to suggest a trend anyway. If you were paying attention you would have seen that I was replying to the user moaning about women being objectified and I was merely asking them how they felt when women groped men and used that particular situation as an example.

In one ear and out the other. Feminism today is not a 'good thing'. It's very much a bad thing. A dangerous thing. A sexist thing. A misandric thing. In the UK they are currently having to reverse Police procedures brought in at the behest of Feminist lobbying given that it resulted in so many rape trials collapsing. In Ireland we have feminists (like the NWCI, funded by the tax payer I might add) telling young women that they should automatically believe the woman in sexual assault and rape trials. Then encourages them to protest jury verdict when conviction is not secured. Feminism is a good thing, Grayson? Come on.

Again, this kind of bullshit comment just shows you don't pay attention to users in the threads which you take part in. If Feminism was just about equality, then nobody would ever complain. Camille Paglia, Christine Hoff Sommers, and women like them have written books about the ills and of modern feminism. Do you think they are making it all up or something? Try listening for once:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXGm9kvgslc

So Outlaw Pete, seeing as you are so against feminism. What do you think of all the instances of men being cruel to women in history? You must be very against that too right?
Lets see, men stopped women from voting 100 years ago, denying them their basic human right. You must think that was terrible!

Malayalam · 17-04-2018 05:16PM

Appledreams15 wrote: »

By all male parties refusing to nominate a female candidate..actually

Maybe there were not that many women there to be nominated. Maybe women did not want to be involved in politics - strikes me as a horrible job. I think ''refusing'' in this case is too strong a word.

Quotas in general strike me as a bad idea. The best should be appointed for any position, otherwise the world of ideas will tend towards mediocrity in the long term on the macro scale.

Appledreams15 wrote: »

Men think about feminism more than women ever do.

Proof? Link? Stats?

17-04-2018 05:16PM

Appledreams15 wrote: »

Don't tell me to do some legwork and provide some proof. I just pointed out what is glaringly obvious.
Political parties in ireland were made to implement gender quotas because they were sexist.
Fact.

I'm more interested in you proving your "fact". Or is it really just an opinion?

What do you think about the fact that Ireland has been flagged for human rights abuses of women by the United Nations?

https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/europe-and-central-asia/ireland/report-ireland/

I assume you're only interested in the female related issues... Don't we have a referendum about Abortion coming up?

Although, isn't this going a bit off topic considering what we were talking about?

Appledreams15 · 17-04-2018 05:17PM

LirW wrote: »

Well, first of all politics doesn't work that way of just showing up and saying "I'm here, I'm a politician now".
Parties have a pretty strict hierarchy and when you enter, unless you have mad connections, you are at the very basic level. On that level you'd usually see a good mix of both genders.
But when it comes to progressing within the parties, there are a lot of factors in play. Generally the more conservative a party is, the higher the percentage of men on the top level.
A female candidate has to present conservative to represent the party values, you'd be surprised about how much weight her family values and her views on children have. All that does only marginally apply to male candidates.
Also, and don't get me wrong, a lot of high positions are simply filled with some old gits that see the young girls as good enough to do the dirty work but would never consider them in a higher position. Sexual harassment within parties is still a thing and women in politics have to put up with it if they wanna get somewhere, this exploitation isn't a Hollywood cliche and still happens.
Something that stands out in female candidates is that a lot of them have some kind of political heavyweight in their family already or a partner, that is fairly well known. Of course that applies to male ones too, not denying that but you'd have a lot more men "coming from the bottom level" than women.

Don't get me wrong, politics is a very cut throat environment in general, you have to be cut throat yourself. But you doing well depends on a lot of other factors than simply having the drive to do it.
Was involved in my early 20 in politics a good bit and it's a grim field and wouldn't want to enter that again, ever ever ever.

Very well said

Appledreams15 · 17-04-2018 05:18PM

ArthurDayne wrote: »

A perfect example of the exact thing I am talking about. I write a post which may well have been all total drivel in the eyes of another reader, but at the very least tried to give it some thought. Your response is simply to fire back some one-liner about men being scared of feminism.

As I said in my post -- I am a strong believer in gender equality and a believer in female sexual liberation. I accept that there is still a way to go in achieving equality, but it will only be achieved when we can all talk and reason together -- rather than fling labels at people straight off the bat or make assumptions about them.

In short, why alienate me?

The first thing that we need are more women in politics. If you would like to sincerely help, here womenforelection.ie, thanks

suicide_circus · 17-04-2018 05:19PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Does that make women who can't have children less female? After all, if the identity of being a woman revolves around being able to have children, as opposed to men not being able to....

Women to don't have children for whatever reason tend to match or out perform men in the workplace. But a lot of women do have children - it allows for the continuation of the species so it's pretty important.

gw80 · 17-04-2018 05:21PM

Appledreams15 wrote: »

Men think about feminism more than women ever do. You'd wonder just what they are afraid of

When a conquering army take over a nation, women have nothing to lose, the men, on the other hand lose everything.

Appledreams15 · 17-04-2018 05:24PM

gw80 wrote: »

When a conquering army take over a nation, women have nothing to lose, the men, on the other hand lose everything.

But then do men ever think of all the cruel abuses and suffering that they put women through in the past?

This is what I don't understand:
Men are afraid of feminism because they feel it will hurt them.

Looks at history: a long string of cruel and savage abuses towards women from men. It wasn't the other way around.

So many civil and human rights abuses of women. So it was okay when it was men doing it to women?

gw80 · 17-04-2018 05:25PM

Appledreams15 wrote: »

The first thing that we need are more women in politics. If you would like to sincerely help, here womenforelection.ie, thanks

Yea, like Sweden.

Outlaw Pete · 17-04-2018 05:27PM

Baron de Charlus wrote: »

I think it's less about youngfellas being exposed to it and more about them going looking for it. As I said, it's a case of people looking for something to be outraged by. And it seems to be mainly young men who engage in it.

It's amazing the lengths they go to find evidence of their perceived bogeymen (in this case the feminists). You see people getting all het up about something that happened on some US college campus, as if it has any bearing on their lives here in Ireland.

You're misinformed. It's far from just US collage campuses (as many keep suggesting, not just yourself). Take consent classes as an example.

Trinity College has sexual consent workshops and UCD had them (but cancelled them).

Over 90% Turnout for Trinity Hall Consent Workshops

Trinity Hall consent workshops saw attendance figures reach over 90 per cent, according to the latest figures from Trinity College Dublin Students’ Union (TCDSU).

With the last consent classes in Trinity Hall concluded, attendance figures suggest that 90.8 per cent of Halls residents attended the classes. Organisers have been forced to hold more workshops and call in more facilitators due to increased demand.

Rachel Skelly, last year’s TCDSU Gender Equality Officer and a lead organiser of the workshops, told The University Times that the increased demand for more workshops in the coming weeks comes from students who missed the classes this week.

In University College Dublin (UCD), earlier in the year, consent classes had to be cancelled, after poor turnout. In July, Queen’s University Belfast Students’ Union (QUBSU) announced that the union would be modelling its consent classes on Trinity’s model.

“We’ve had a huge emphasis on it’s ok if you can’t make your workshop but you have to let us know”, explained McClean. “It’s just becoming an accepted part of the culture. It’s topical”, he continued.

LirW · 17-04-2018 05:28PM

gw80 wrote: »

When a conquering army take over a nation, women have nothing to lose, the men, on the other hand lose everything.

If an army conquers a country, the chances that she'll be raped, her daughters will be raped and she'll be captured and go through some abuse that you can't even imagine is very high.
Look at the middle east what's happening there and the things women do simply to stay alive. In a lot of cases simply being killed would be the better thing to happen to them.

17-04-2018 05:29PM

suicide_circus wrote: »

Women to don't have children for whatever reason tend to match or out perform men in the workplace. But a lot of women do have children - it allows for the continuation of the species so it's pretty important.

I never said it wasn't important. I just don't see this placing women on a pedestal because they choose to have a child. I don't see fathers being raised to the same pedestal.

And this idea that women are going to stop having children.. is silly. Women consistently outperform men in professional workplaces like Finance before they're 30, and then most will stick at lower positions so that they have can have a family and the time to spend with their child. Although, many other women do have children, and still manage to make it to top management positions.

Having children doesn't exclude you from professional success. Wanting to spend extensive time with them does.

17-04-2018 05:30PM

Appledreams15 wrote:

We are 50 per cent women and 50 per cent men. Women have never been anyway near half represented in politics. Of course they have been discriminated against.

Utter bull**** if you are talking about modern day politics. But you already know that

Appledreams15 wrote:

Men think about feminism more than women ever do.

Again, just a baseless attempt to put men down.

Appledreams15 wrote:

Don't be so afraid of women.

Coming from someone who has spent the last month or so saying how scary it is to be a woman in the patriarchal he'll hole that is Ireland, perhaps it's not the men who need to play down the fear card.

Thankfully, most women I meet aren't bats hit crazy like some on the thread. I would really fear for my young daughter if she was going to be raised in a country full of lunatic feminists. But for the time being, it seems to be just the twitterati and keyboard warriors save for a few blue haired protesters at hashtag marches.

Worth keeping an eye on though, these bitches be crazy. Let's not have the lunatics run the asylum.

Is the new Feminist movement damaging male female relationships?

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