The "undocumented" Irish in America

McGrath5 · 18-04-2018 08:29PM #1

So RTE have run a heart warming piece on the so called undocumented Irish who have to spend their lives looking over their shoulder in case of been deported back to Ireland.

RTE's Brian O' Donovan made the arduous trek to Boston to go speak with these poor folk who didn't want to reveal their identify, for fear of deportation.
From driving around in fear of been pulled over by the police to going underground when the immigration and customs enforcement agency are in the area, these people live a life of fear.

I'm sorry, but am I missing something here? These illegal immigrants have chosen to overstay their welcome in a foreign country, yet go on as if they are a persecuted minority. I think if these people came from south of the border ie Mexico they would be called for what in fact they are, illegal immigrants.

Somehow though, if they where all to come back home, they would probably have an incredible sense of entitlement, expecting a free house and much more.

Poor form from RTE though reporting on this issue in such a biased manner.

Discuss.

hatrickpatrick · 18-04-2018 08:42PM

I'm pro-immigration and this still grinds my gears. People should be campaigning to change the law, not resorting to "newspeak" to try to pretend that the law doesn't exist and hope that it just goes away on its own. It's ridiculous.

The analogy about drug dealers calling themselves "unlicensed pharmacists" is apt - call a spade a spade, if you believe in more open borders then say "These peoples' immigration was illegal, but it shouldn't be". This whole trend of "change the label on something to pretend that it's something other than it is" is bizarre and in my view just a little too close to some of Orwell's ideas about controlling language for my liking.

The Old Guy · 18-04-2018 08:45PM

Just RTE being RTE. Not along ago they had a propaganda piece on the news about poor 'migrants' trying to cross the southern border.

Harry Palmr · 18-04-2018 08:47PM

Irish, Mexicans, whoever they are they are illegals if they overstay esp when they know perfectly well that they are going to overstay.

whisky_galore · 18-04-2018 08:52PM

Cry me a river.

The Irish originate from a rich country compared to Mexico and the world is their oyster. They could work within the EU if they were arsed learning a language which most won't do...only heading off to the bright lights and gold paved streets of Americay. They knew the rules and they decided to chance it. Tough titty if they happen to get nabbed.

Fr Tod Umptious · 18-04-2018 09:00PM

McGrath5 wrote: »

So RTE have run a heart warming piece on the so called undocumented Irish who have to spend their lives looking over their shoulder in case of been deported back to Ireland.

RTE's Brian O' Donovan made the arduous trek to Boston to go speak with these poor folk who didn't want to reveal their identify, for fear of deportation.
From driving around in fear of been pulled over by the police to going underground when the immigration and customs enforcement agency are in the area, these people live a life of fear.

I'm sorry, but am I missing something here? These illegal immigrants have chosen to overstay their welcome in a foreign country, yet go on as if they are a persecuted minority. I think if these people came from south of the border ie Mexico they would be called for what in fact they are, illegal immigrants.

Somehow though, if they where all to come back home, they would probably have an incredible sense of entitlement, expecting a free house and much more.

Poor form from RTE though reporting on this issue in such a biased manner.

Discuss.

It's a puff piece by RTE.

Just a filler.

I doubt the reporter even travelled to Dorchester to meet two lads, he could have written from his kitchen.

I disagree with the bit in bold though, most Irish people who go to work in the US for a long period of time learn the value of working, the folks who expect a free house etc usually stay in Ireland.

Graces7 · 18-04-2018 09:51PM

McGrath5 wrote: »

So RTE have run a heart warming piece on the so called undocumented Irish who have to spend their lives looking over their shoulder in case of been deported back to Ireland.
RTE's Brian O' Donovan made the arduous trek to Boston to go speak with these poor folk who didn't want to reveal their identify, for fear of deportation.
From driving around in fear of been pulled over by the police to going underground when the immigration and customs enforcement agency are in the area, these people live a life of fear.
I'm sorry, but am I missing something here? These illegal immigrants have chosen to overstay their welcome in a foreign country, yet go on as if they are a persecuted minority. I think if these people came from south of the border ie Mexico they would be called for what in fact they are, illegal immigrants.

Somehow though, if they where all to come back home, they would probably have an incredible sense of entitlement, expecting a free house and much more.

Poor form from RTE though reporting on this issue in such a biased manner.

Discuss.

Not at all poor form. Truth matters. Whoever you are, or, rather, wherever you
come from. Shameful way to behave.

what free house?

Donald Trump · 18-04-2018 09:54PM

We like them now. Your leader Leo came over to give me a bowl of weeds for St. Patty's Day

It's not as if they are filthy Mexicans now is it?

Donald Trump · 18-04-2018 09:55PM

McGrath5 wrote: »

Discuss.

Feck off

MattressRick · 18-04-2018 09:57PM

No sympathy for them. Up sticks, family and all, if you miss home so much.

Donald Trump · 18-04-2018 10:00PM

MattressRick wrote: »

No sympathy for them. Up sticks, family and all, if you miss home so much.

It's not that easy.

Some might be married or in relationships or have kids in USA.

But they can't take the risk of stepping outside the US. Some might be there 20 years, keeping their heads down, working and paying their taxes.

What's the harm in regularizing their situation? Get them properly documented and monitored and give them a pathway to become part of the official system. And at the same time, improving the Immigration infrastructure so that it doesn't happen again in the future

There is feck all for free in the USA in terms of welfare supports. Yeah, your kids will go to a school for free but beyond that there's feck all. It's likely that the Irish undocumented aren't on food stamps or looking to avail of free housing/shelter

farmerwifelet · 18-04-2018 10:08PM

but getting into a relationship and having children while being an illegal immigrant is the most selfish thing you can do. it is a deliberate choice.

There are a lot of Irish over there who went through the channels and got their citizenship the right way. It can be done so I don't have any sympathy and being stuck there because you might not get back is also a choice.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 18-04-2018 10:27PM

farmerwifelet wrote: »

but getting into a relationship and having children while being an illegal immigrant is the most selfish thing you can do. it is a deliberate choice.

There are a lot of Irish over there who went through the channels and got their citizenship the right way. It can be done so I don't have any sympathy and being stuck there because you might not get back is also a choice.

Absolutely. I have several family members who went to the USA and went through the correct channels. These 'undocumented' had ample opportunities to do it properly.

Zebra3 · 18-04-2018 10:29PM

No sympathy for them.

You’d think RTÉ would have better things to be reporting on.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 18-04-2018 10:36PM

I’m happy enough with the term illegal rather than undocumented. some of the rhetoric here is wrong though. They didn’t leave a rich country but a basket case country 20 years ago. They hardly are the type to want a free house.

Like the wind rush generation deporting people who have been anywhere for a generation is a bit off.

kwestfan08 · 18-04-2018 10:41PM

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

I’m happy enough with the term illegal rather than undocumented. some of the rhetoric here is wrong though. They didn’t leave a rich country but a basket case country 20 years ago. They hardly are the type to want a free house.

Like the wind rush generation deporting people who have been anywhere for a generation is a bit off.

Basket case in 1998? Hardly.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 18-04-2018 11:16PM

kwestfan08 wrote: »

Basket case in 1998? Hardly.

Well most immigrated from the 80s and early 90s. 20+ I should have said.

Mrs OBumble · 19-04-2018 12:03AM

sugarman wrote: »

In its present form, the nation isn't even 250 years old. That could be the equivalent of just 3 generations of family.

I'd imagine a few Native Americans would see the nation's age a bit differently.

And 250 years = three generations? The way Irish breed? Yeah, right ... more like 10+ generations.

Damn overstayers. Bring back dawn raids.

Mutant z · 19-04-2018 12:34AM

That should be the illegal Irish in America let's get the terminology right why don't we.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 19-04-2018 12:43AM

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I'd imagine a few Native Americans would see the nation's age a bit differently.

And 250 years = three generations? The way Irish breed? Yeah, right ... more like 10+ generations.

Damn overstayers. Bring back dawn raids.

The way “Irish breed”. Jesus wept.

Fr Tod Umptious · 19-04-2018 12:58AM

Randall Deafening Whimper wrote: »

Absolutely. I have several family members who went to the USA and went through the correct channels. These 'undocumented' had ample opportunities to do it properly.

The last "amnesty" was the Donnelly and Morrison visas in the early '90s.
They were like the current DV lottery visas but basically if you applied you were likely to get one.

That got a lot of the people who went over illegally in the 80s sorted.

Since then the only way to get a visa to the US has been DV lotttery (very hard to win) or H1B work permit (University degree and work specialisation required, and it's a lottery also)
Marry a US citizen.

So since the mid 90s the opportunities for legal immigration to the US has been pretty much out of the reach of a huge amount of Irish people.

Yet people, espically young single people, like to go over and give it a go.

These people grow up, become couples and have famalies. As I said in an earlier post Irish people who work in the US discovery the value of work and the reward of work.

As time goes by Ireland as a place to live becomes less attractive with it's (relatively) high taxes which seem to pay for an vast welfare state which some people spend their whole lives on.

So coming back to Ireland is not as simple as it seems.

Zebra3 · 19-04-2018 01:16AM

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

As I said in an earlier post Irish people who work in the US discovery the value of work and the reward of work.

Whereas Irish people elsewhere don’t?

AllForIt · 19-04-2018 01:42AM

The Undocumentables

DEFTLEFTHAND · 19-04-2018 02:37AM

Should be held to the same standard as everyone else.

There's no sympathy for them back here.

MattressRick · 19-04-2018 07:14AM

Donald Trump wrote: »

It's not that easy.

Some might be married or in relationships or have kids in USA.

But they can't take the risk of stepping outside the US. Some might be there 20 years, keeping their heads down, working and paying their taxes.

What's the harm in regularizing their situation? Get them properly documented and monitored and give them a pathway to become part of the official system. And at the same time, improving the Immigration infrastructure so that it doesn't happen again in the future

There is feck all for free in the USA in terms of welfare supports. Yeah, your kids will go to a school for free but beyond that there's feck all. It's likely that the Irish undocumented aren't on food stamps or looking to avail of free housing/shelter

Im well aware of why they cant leave and travel home for a holiday. But they made a decision to start families, presumably with the attitude that they'd get sorted eventually with a visa. So I've no sympathy.

Donald Trump · 19-04-2018 07:19AM

MattressRick wrote: »

Im well aware of why they cant leave and travel home for a holiday. But they made a decision to start families, presumably with the attitude that they'd get sorted eventually with a visa. So I've no sympathy.

I don't think they want your sympathy.

What is there to gain by treating them like an underclass?

Regularize their situation. Allow then to have some official, temporary status contingent on paying a fine and continued good behaviour etc. Give them something to work towards. It's a win-win. When you have a reasonable system in place it makes it easier and cleaner to get rid of actual chancers and messers

Reati · 19-04-2018 07:26AM

Donald Trump wrote: »

.

What is there to gain by treating them like an underclass?

No one is treating them as an underclass, they are calling a spade a spade.

The term undocumented Irish is a branding excerise for people who are illegally in America to make people sympathic to that cause.

We certainly don't and wouldn't refer to people here in ireland illegally as undocumented.

malinheader · 19-04-2018 07:30AM

Fair play to anyone who made the move to the states as for a lot of them it was down to no work available here and our government was only to glad to see them leave. Hard to leave your family behind not knowing when or if you be back. Also anyone heading there was heading to work not to avail of a soft welfare system as there was none.

Reati · 19-04-2018 07:36AM

malinheader wrote: »

Fair play to anyone who made the move to the states as for a lot of them it was down to no work available here and our government was only to glad to see them leave. Hard to leave your family behind not knowing when or if you be back. Also anyone heading there was heading to work not to avail of a soft welfare system as there was none.

Do you feel the same about Syrians and others from the middle east coming here and to Europe for the same reason?

seachto7 · 19-04-2018 07:43AM

Met a guy in Boston last year who was moaning about how he could never go home. He was engaged to a local too.
He had only arrived a year prior to that and was playing music.
So many other places he could have gone to to do this legally in Europe etc.
Zero sympathy for him. A large chip on his shoulder as well.

Manic Moran · 19-04-2018 07:55AM

sugarman wrote: »

The states is a funny one tho, the place was literally built by immigrants. In its present form, the nation isn't even 250 years old. That could be the equivalent of just 3 generations of family.

It was, indeed, built by immigrants, but what was in previous centuries is no longer. Back then, we had a heck of a lot of land, and nobody to exploit it. Not enough farmers, not enough railroad workers, not enough... well.., anything. What the US needed was raw manpower, which it would take from most anywhere. If you were generally healthy, we’d take you.

Today, though, the US’s situation is similar to that of most other developed countries. It has some certain critical skills shortages, possession of such skills means it to be more likely that a visa will be granted. In terms of population and raw manpower, though, the open immigration of the past is no longer a suitable policy. Why people think the US should exempt itself from common policy on such matters is beyond me.

The "undocumented" Irish in America

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