Recommendations for a prospective EV owner

dmcg90 · 07-07-2018 07:04AM #1

Hey Boards!

Been doing a lot of research into EVs and decided to take the plunge when I’m changing the car.

I’ve been looking into a Nissan Leaf, e-Golf and a Model 3.

In terms of my driving, mostly around Dublin but there’s an occasional drive up to North West Donegal - normally drive under <10,000 KM/year. I also have solar panels on the house which I’d like to hook up to a Powerwall someday to charge the car off.

In that case, is it worth waiting for a Model 3 with the much higher range or is it easy enough to do with stops in a new 40KwH Leaf?

Thanks in advance!

Soarer · 07-07-2018 07:22AM

Any of those cars will suit your driving needs. Also the Ioniq, but they're harder to get your hands on.
If you needed to buy "today", your only real options are the e-golf or the Leaf. The Model 3 could be another 2 years away.
If you can keep your powder dry for another few months, there'll be 60kWh+ SUVs from Hyundai and Kia, and new Leaf being announced.

Patser · 07-07-2018 07:28AM

i3 Rex might suit now, depending on space requirements

There's also the EV hyundai Kona on the way with an option for a big battery and long range (might just make it on a single charge), although we're all looking at how low its battery back sits underneath. Donegal roads could really test that design.

dmcg90 · 07-07-2018 07:46AM

Patser wrote: »

i3 Rex might suit now, depending on space requirements

There's also the EV hyundai Kona on the way with an option for a big battery and long range (might just make it on a single charge), although we're all looking at how low its battery back sits underneath. Donegal roads could really test that design.

Hah! That was certainly a worry!

I’m in no rush to, car is working fine as it is but my car struggles up there (1l, 60 bhp) hence why I’d like to upgrade in the next 12-18 months.

Thanks for the tips!

goz83 · 07-07-2018 10:02AM

Put a refundable deposit on a model 3 and then start doing your research. A full EV will do you just fine. If you are waiting 12 months you will have more options.

Sabre Man · 07-07-2018 01:34PM

I would suggest taking a look at the route you're going and see what chargers are available along the route:
https://www.esb.ie/our-businesses/ecars/charge-point-map

Will you be able to charge overnight in Donegal?

I don't know which Leaf you're considering but next year's model looks like it could be a huge improvement:
https://electrek.co/2018/07/06/nissan-leaf-prototype-new-battery-pack-leaked-fast-charging/

Since you're considering a Model 3, would a used Model S be an option?

dmcg90 · 10-07-2018 01:20PM

Sabre Man wrote: »

I would suggest taking a look at the route you're going and see what chargers are available along the route:
https://www.esb.ie/our-businesses/ecars/charge-point-map

Will you be able to charge overnight in Donegal?

I don't know which Leaf you're considering but next year's model looks like it could be a huge improvement:
https://electrek.co/2018/07/06/nissan-leaf-prototype-new-battery-pack-leaked-fast-charging/

Since you're considering a Model 3, would a used Model S be an option?

Probably could swing overnight charging in Donegal off a normal 3-pin plug.

There's a CHAdeMO in Monaghan (en route), Letterkenny and Laghy which are ok, if the Monaghan one is out of service then it might be a much longer wait or tricky situation! This is why I'm tempted by the extended range on the Model 3.

I'll keep an eye out for the new Leaf next year, really interested to see how it'll cost vs. Model 3 and range too.

Thanks for the advice everyone!

Shefwedfan · 12-07-2018 09:44AM

How many KM's from door to door on the Donegal trip.

Do you do any other long-range trips? I do trips over to UK
Would the car be parked at house on a typical day or used as work commuter?
Do you have 2 cars? or will this be main car?

12-07-2018 10:24AM

dmcg90 wrote: »

Hey Boards!

Been doing a lot of research into EVs and decided to take the plunge when I’m changing the car.

I’ve been looking into a Nissan Leaf, e-Golf and a Model 3.

In terms of my driving, mostly around Dublin but there’s an occasional drive up to North West Donegal - normally drive under <10,000 KM/year. I also have solar panels on the house which I’d like to hook up to a Powerwall someday to charge the car off.

In that case, is it worth waiting for a Model 3 with the much higher range or is it easy enough to do with stops in a new 40KwH Leaf?

Thanks in advance!

Of course I'm going to recommend the i3 Rex, the S version is available now too which will have a stiffer suspension and faster past 100 Km/h. You can also get the i3 without Rex but I wouldn't given the state of the charging network.

I3 is probably the highest quality most fun EV you can buy now for the money but the Rex means no stopping at charge points if you do not want to , if a charger is down or in use or there's a queue you could find yourself waiting an hour or more to get a charge.

The public charger situation is diabolical and if you can avoid the mess then do, i3 is not everyone's cup of tea but I absolutely love it, I manage to take 4 year old and 2.4 year old away with all the stuff they need at that age. It's small but the ability to fire up the generator if you see cars queuing at charge points is really terrific.

I get a hard time here for even mentioning the i3 , it's a dirty work among some boards members but I chose to burn some petrol because after 3 years of the 24 Kwh Leaf and the experiences I had at charge points I said that until the Network improves I'm not doing that again.

+ I got to tell you if you got Girlfriend/Wife and Kids and you're stuck at chargers with a less than impressed missus and Kids screaming then I guarantee you will wish you had a generator to get you home !

I got a good deal on my i3 Rex, have a chat with Frank Keane on the Naas road, contact Rory , he's a good Chap to deal with.

Anyway, I liked the 40 Kwh Leaf but it has serious issues with wheel spin in damp and wet if you drive it hard but, it sounds like it will suit you well, However, I would hold off for the 60 Kwh if you want BEV only, the more range you have from home the less time you will need at charge points. It will have 215 Hp too which should be fun.

Wait for 60 Kwh Kona, maybe by Mid 2019.

BMW ix3 possibly early 2020 , going to be a really good EV 75 Kwh.

Model 3 , maybe by 2021.

12-07-2018 10:47AM

I did Leixlip-Lifford and somewhere in the countryside near Derry on a LEAF 40 a couple of months ago. The car had still about 20 percent of battery left when hitting Lifford. You should be able to make it just about anywhere in Donegal with one 15-30 minute charge. I didn't use M1 so not sure how it would have worked.

irishgrover · 12-07-2018 06:56PM

It you are in no hurry at all I'd wait and look for model 3
If you are slightly impatient then wait 6 months and look at the Kona or even better (but slightly longer wait) the Kia
If money is not a problem the ipace or model S
If you want one now if go for the leaf 40. Better than ioniq for your use case.

Regardless on when you pull the trigger, something better will come along with 6 months

unkel · 12-07-2018 08:45PM

Good advice but I don't know why you say:

irishgrover wrote: »

If you want one now if go for the leaf 40. Better than ioniq for your use case.

Going from Dublin to Donegal was a bit of a bother for Ioniq a year ago, but has improved greatly with several of the ESB chargers that were CHAdeMo were replaced with triple head chargers that now have CCS too

And on long motorway runs, the range of Ioniq and L40 are similar, but Ioniq charges twice as fast per km range (and will charge three times as fast per km when the new private Ionity chargers come in)

Shefwedfan · 12-07-2018 08:50PM

irishgrover wrote: »

It you are in no hurry at all I'd wait and look for model 3
If you are slightly impatient then wait 6 months and look at the Kona or even better (but slightly longer wait) the Kia
If money is not a problem the ipace or model S
If you want one now if go for the leaf 40. Better than ioniq for your use case.

Regardless on when you pull the trigger, something better will come along with 6 months

Based on a number of tests the Ioniq will outperform the L40 in long distance. If I was buying one today I would try and get the Ioniq

unkel · 12-07-2018 09:00PM

Or an eGolf if you can get one for reasonable money. It is less efficient and has less motorway range and it is smaller, but it is a better car in general than the Ioniq and it is a far better drivers car. Back a year ago I paid €25k for my Ioniq, and back then an eGolf started at about €36k. Now you pay full whack for Ioniq (close enough to €30k) and some people have got diesel scrappage on eGolf, making it only a grand or two more expensive than Ioniq. It is likely to keep its value better too.

And the eGolf has the same Ionity charging benefit. Minimum 4 chargers per station, so very unlikely you will have to wait. Whereas when a warm L40 has just pulled up to an ESB charger in front of you it could be 4 hours waiting before you are back on the road (worst case scenario, but could become even worse in the next few years when EV ownership increased and there will be several thousand new Leafs on the road)

Shefwedfan · 12-07-2018 09:05PM

Demo eGolf in Liffey Valley. Selling for circa 32k. 171 number plate.

irishgrover · 12-07-2018 10:05PM

unkel wrote: »

Good advice but I don't know why you say:

"If you want one now if go for the leaf 40. Better than ioniq for your use case"

Going from Dublin to Donegal was a bit of a bother for Ioniq a year ago, but has improved greatly with several of the ESB chargers that were CHAdeMo were replaced with triple head chargers that now have CCS too

And on long motorway runs, the range of Ioniq and L40 are similar, but Ioniq charges twice as fast per km range (and will charge three times as fast per km when the new private Ionity chargers come in)

1. If I was primarily driving in Dublin and only occasionally leaving it to head Northwest then I would be traveling above 110 kmph probably less than 0.01% of the time
2. If I was living in Dublin and doing most of my driving in Dublin than I would probably fastcharge 0.01% of the time
3. If I was only traveling to Donegal very occasionally then I assume I would not be coming back on the same day, so it's highly unlikely rapidgate would be an issue.
4. Going to Donegal is a pain in the ass of a drive on non motorway roads, with non motorway speeds. I'd personally be taking a 45 or 60 minute break, even if I was driving an ICE, further reducing the benefit of faster charging.
5. There are still more Chademos than CCS on that route
6. Is easier to buy a leaf with the top spec
7. The leaf will go farther and require less frequent charging than the ioniq in an urban environment

So most of the things that make the ioniq a better car for me really don't apply to the OP.

TomOnBoard · 12-07-2018 10:25PM

irishgrover wrote: »

1. If I was primarily driving in Dublin and only occasionally leaving it to head Northwest then I would be traveling above 110 kmph probably less than 0.01% of the time
2. If I was living in Dublin and doing most of my driving in Dublin than I would probably fastcharge 0.01% of the time
3. If I was only traveling to Donegal very occasionally then I assume I would not be coming back on the same day, so it's highly unlikely rapidgate would be an issue.
4. Going to Donegal is a pain in the ass of a drive on non motorway roads, with non motorway speeds. I'd personally be taking a 45 or 60 minute break, even if I was driving an ICE, further reducing the benefit of faster charging.
5. There are still more Chademos than CCS on that route
6. Is easier to buy a leaf with the top spec
7. The leaf will go farther and require less frequent charging than the ioniq in an urban environment

So most of the things that make the ioniq a better car for me really don't apply to the OP.

IMHO, OP should buy for the circumstances that will prevail 95-98% of the time, ie Dublin driving. For the other 2-5%, hire an ICE vehicle. Car hire in Ireland is dirt cheap for the most part. Why lock up funds in a machine to deal with the occasional exceptiion, rather than focusing on what is needed to satisfy the predominant need.

EDIT: apologies for not spotting earlier crappy word corrections by my tablet...

dmcg90 · 03-06-2019 08:59AM

Hi all

Sorry for bumping the thread but I’m finally ready to get an EV. So far:

Ruled out
Model 3/i-Pace - too expensive
Hybrid/PHEV - I’d rather go all electric after test driving a few
Leaf - Charging connector (prefer to go CCS)

In contention
Kona Electric
E-Niro

I’ve test drove both and liked them. I liked the eNiro more with the spec and space but it’s not available until 2020 and the garage was going to give me a terrible trade in value compared to Hyundai who had pretty much immediate availability on the Kona. I’m talking 3500 in the difference between them.

Pretty torn whether I should just go for the Kona (knowing there will be one next year with a better screen/charging set up) or go for the eNiro and bite the bullet? I’m not too confident about selling my car myself and would rather trade in. Should I shop around other Kia garages for a better trade in price maybe?

Appreciate any insights!

Shefwedfan · 03-06-2019 09:17AM

Sell the car on your own and buy the e-Niro

If waiting till 2020 it might be worth investing in a ID.3

The issues with trade in against these cars is Kia know they have a good product so no reason to sell at low margin

Sabre Man · 03-06-2019 09:32AM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Sell the car on your own and buy the e-Niro

You seem to quite like the e-Niro so I second this suggestion. No harm in trying to sell it privately.

dmcg90 · 03-06-2019 09:44AM

You're right about that. The back seats on the Kona and lack of some features in comparison are holding me back from it.

Any advice on selling cars? Pretty new to it!

Sabre Man · 03-06-2019 09:53AM

dmcg90 wrote: »

You're right about that. The back seats on the Kona and lack of some features in comparison are holding me back from it.

Any advice on selling cars? Pretty new to it!

Make sure your car is as clean as possible inside and out, take lots of good quality pictures in good light.

A long NCT and road tax helps, so get an early NCT if possible/applicable. Check prices of similar cars on donedeal and price accordingly.

BoatMad · 03-06-2019 09:54AM

dmcg90 wrote: »

Hi all

Sorry for bumping the thread but I’m finally ready to get an EV. So far:

Ruled out
Model 3/i-Pace - too expensive
Hybrid/PHEV - I’d rather go all electric after test driving a few
Leaf - Charging connector (prefer to go CCS)

In contention
Kona Electric
E-Niro

I’ve test drove both and liked them. I liked the eNiro more with the spec and space but it’s not available until 2020 and the garage was going to give me a terrible trade in value compared to Hyundai who had pretty much immediate availability on the Kona. I’m talking 3500 in the difference between them.

Pretty torn whether I should just go for the Kona (knowing there will be one next year with a better screen/charging set up) or go for the eNiro and bite the bullet? I’m not too confident about selling my car myself and would rather trade in. Should I shop around other Kia garages for a better trade in price maybe?

Appreciate any insights!

Rather silly to exclude the leaf solely on its connector , there’s no current disadvantage having chademo , and some advantage having exclusive access to Kona free Nissan chademo stations

at present

slave1 · 03-06-2019 10:17AM

Wait for the eNiro, all round better car on virtually every YT benchmark review, internal quality, passenger space, boot design and space and just a tidy less range

liamog · 03-06-2019 10:33AM

BoatMad wrote: »

Rather silly to exclude the leaf solely on its connector , there’s no current disadvantage having chademo , and some advantage having exclusive access to Kona free Nissan chademo stations at present

Ionity has planning permission for multiple CCS only sites with 6 points each. They have started construction on site 2. A car having CCS will quickly be an advantage.

unkel · 03-06-2019 02:48PM

Kona / eNiro can charge up to 80kW on existing CCS chargers. Leaf can only charge up to 43kW because of CHAdeMO. For that reason alone I would rule out the Leaf too. CHAdeMO is obsolete. You'll be queuing behind all the other Leaf drivers, who also will take forever to charge

dmcg90 wrote: »

I liked the eNiro more with the spec and space but it’s not available until 2020 and the garage was going to give me a terrible trade in value

You need to ring all the other Irish Kia dealers. Some do have eNiros for delivery next month on 192 plates. Some might give you a better trade in.

BoatMad · 04-06-2019 10:50AM

liamog wrote: »

Ionity has planning permission for multiple CCS only sites with 6 points each. They have started construction on site 2. A car having CCS will quickly be an advantage.

A car with 450 km range , or more in the coming years , will not need much access to fast chargers especially expensive fast chargers ( likely to be dearer then diesel )

Hence basing a decision on something that you won’t use a lot , isn’t really a good tactic

Yes Chademo is on the way out , but not just right yet , and cars are relatively short term entities as they are a wasting asset.

Hence my comments , car choice is complex , because humans are 70 % emotional decision makers. So generally car purchasers suffer huge confirmation bias issues. At the end of the day , it’s mostly a lifestyle choice as most cars will do the basic functions

For me it’s simple , buy the car that meets the 80% requirements not the 20 % , so my next one with be a Kona or a Niro as I want to remove all the need for fast charging from 99% of my driving , but I’m not overly influenced by a connector type that is for something I won’t be using much

BoatMad · 04-06-2019 10:51AM

liamog wrote: »

Ionity has planning permission for multiple CCS only sites with 6 points each. They have started construction on site 2. A car having CCS will quickly be an advantage.

Which you will pay handsomely for access to

dmcg90 · 04-06-2019 01:14PM

unkel wrote: »

Kona / eNiro can charge up to 80kW on existing CCS chargers. Leaf can only charge up to 43kW because of CHAdeMO. For that reason alone I would rule out the Leaf too. CHAdeMO is obsolete. You'll be queuing behind all the other Leaf drivers, who also will take forever to charge

dmcg90 wrote: »

I liked the eNiro more with the spec and space but it’s not available until 2020 and the garage was going to give me a terrible trade in value

You need to ring all the other Irish Kia dealers. Some do have eNiros for delivery next month on 192 plates. Some might give you a better trade in.

Thanks for the advice on that. I rang 15 dealers and while most won't get some until 2020, some had some cars coming in for 192 that could be booked (tbc when) and had better trade in values for the car (either for now or for 2020). One was very frank saying that they would go with the lowest price trade in value possible to make as much profit as possible.

Re: connectors - With Tesla, Hyundai, Kia, VW etc all going for CCS over Chademo, my thinking is that this will steer what fast chargers are installed in the future. I do a 280km return drive about 4-5 times a year so that's a factor for me. I honestly like the look of the Leaf + it's propilot system but I want to futureproof myself to a certain extent with Ionity stations coming online etc.

dmcg90 · 04-06-2019 01:15PM

unkel wrote: »

Kona / eNiro can charge up to 80kW on existing CCS chargers. Leaf can only charge up to 43kW because of CHAdeMO. For that reason alone I would rule out the Leaf too. CHAdeMO is obsolete. You'll be queuing behind all the other Leaf drivers, who also will take forever to charge

dmcg90 wrote: »

I liked the eNiro more with the spec and space but it’s not available until 2020 and the garage was going to give me a terrible trade in value

You need to ring all the other Irish Kia dealers. Some do have eNiros for delivery next month on 192 plates. Some might give you a better trade in.

Thanks for the advice on that. I rang 15 dealers and while most won't get some until 2020, some had some cars coming in for 192 that could be booked (tbc when) and had better trade in values for the car (either for now or for 2020). One was very frank saying that they would go with the lowest price trade in value possible to make as much profit as possible.

Re: connectors - With Tesla, Hyundai, Kia, VW etc all going for CCS over Chademo, my thinking is that this will steer what fast chargers are installed in the future. I do a 280km return drive about 4-5 times a year so that's a factor for me. I honestly like the look of the Leaf + it's propilot system but I want to futureproof myself to a certain extent with Ionity stations coming online etc.

unkel · 04-06-2019 02:19PM

dmcg90 wrote: »

I do a 280km return drive about 4-5 times a year so that's a factor for me. I honestly like the look of the Leaf + it's propilot system but I want to futureproof myself to a certain extent with Ionity stations coming online etc.

If you can charge at your destination (work / family?) and stay there for most of the day (with your car charging) before going back home, then a Leaf is fine

In a 64kWh eNiro, you would not have to charge at all, you can do that trip at motorway speeds all year round

BoatMad · 04-06-2019 02:21PM

In a 64kWh eNiro, you would not have to charge at all, you can do that trip at motorway speeds all year round

OI think this is true of any EV that had whatever range you need at the time.

Recommendations for a prospective EV owner

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