God created Elon Musk to be a supervillain but forgot to flip the last switch.

Wibbs · 09-07-2018 01:17PM

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

If its a fad then why are a bunch of countries going banning petrol/diesel engines? France and UK to name 2 nearby ones.

You seem to have a complete unawareness of what is coming down the pipeline.

Eh, they've committed to bans in 2040. A lot can happen in twenty years. Technology and politics moves fast. I have no doubt that low emissions cars(and other transport) will be the thing, and that's a good thing, but I also have no doubt that it's too early in the day to be making blanket predictions just yet.

sexmag · 09-07-2018 01:32PM

Elon Musk celebrates the rescue of the boys from Thailand's Tham Laung cave, July 2018

Guy:Incognito · 09-07-2018 01:57PM

cournioni wrote: »

So shortsighted its frightening. As if electric vehicles will be electricity and tax free if they ever become mainstream.

You can't stick a panel on your roof and collect free petrol or diesel tho.......

cournioni · 09-07-2018 02:08PM

Wibbs wrote: »

Eh, they've committed to bans in 2040. A lot can happen in twenty years. Technology and politics moves fast. I have no doubt that low emissions cars(and other transport) will be the thing, and that's a good thing, but I also have no doubt that it's too early in the day to be making blanket predictions just yet.

Indeed, and what seems to be discounted is the constant improvement in Petrol, Diesel and Hybrid engines which year on year deliver lower emissions. If it continues improving at the same rate that it has, governments might not see it worth their while implementing such bans.

There will have to be a major improvement and investment in infrastructure before government can commit to blanket bans any time before 2040, and that is as you say, optimistic.

cournioni · 09-07-2018 02:09PM

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

You can't stick a panel on your roof and collect free petrol or diesel tho.......

I know we’ve had a good couple of weeks, but best of luck making that viable in Ireland. It can barely heat the water ffs!

RayCun · 09-07-2018 02:19PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Screw experts, amirite? Far handier to be a prick on your couch.

Experts? Experts in PR. Experts in overpromising and underdelivering.

09-07-2018 02:24PM

RayCun wrote: »

Experts? Experts in PR. Experts in overpromising and underdelivering.

If that's really all you think Musk is, then there's not much I can do to change your mind. Most people who dislike that man can admit he's done a lot.

shootermacg · 09-07-2018 03:42PM

Deleted User wrote: »

If that's really all you think Musk is, then there's not much I can do to change your mind. Most people who dislike that man can admit he's done a lot.

As an asthmatic, I can heartily say any type of transport is preferable to the polution caused by transporting a fat cnut through the city at 10km/h.

Bubbaclaus · 09-07-2018 04:47PM

Wibbs wrote: »

Eh, they've committed to bans in 2040. A lot can happen in twenty years. Technology and politics moves fast. I have no doubt that low emissions cars(and other transport) will be the thing, and that's a good thing, but I also have no doubt that it's too early in the day to be making blanket predictions just yet.

Quite a few petrol/diesel bans coming in long before 2040. Norway is 2025. Most other proposals are 2030. Paris and Rome have a full ban on diesel in the cities by 2025 also.

Its coming whether you like it or not.

...Ghost... · 09-07-2018 06:35PM

cournioni wrote: »

Electric vehicles are a con. Unless you’re in Norway or Sweden, you are essentially using harmful energy sources to power the car anyway. Along with using loads of batteries that aren’t exactly friendly to the environment either.

We’ll need a few more waste incinerators around to meet further demand for these hairdryers.

What a short sighted, uninformed stream of drivvel inspired by glimpsing at red tops and over exposure to bs radio ads.

Can you explain exactly how electric vehicles are a con? You seem to infer that they are just as bad as a diesel vehicle, but you could not be further from the truth. For a start, the materials used in the batteries is recyclable and will last for more than 10 years before they may need to be recycled. Can you recycle petrol, or diesel?

There is also the fact that the electricity used by an EV is generated outside of our urban centres. This cannot be said of your typical VW Passat or any other smoking box polluting the air around us. This is before we talk about most EVs charging at night when we have a higher proportion of renewable energy than fossil fuel energy and also before we acknowledge the strict environmental controls a power station adheres to compared to a diesel car which may or may not have their DPF in-situ.

Also those "hairdryers" are faster off the line and way more fun to drive than most cars puffing around the place. No need to pull into a fuel station and handle filthy equipment while paying €50+ for the privilege. An EV can be plugged into your garden socket and fully charge for not much more than a euro and it's ready for the morning.

It's also nice to have free parking in many places around the country. Oh, and free public charging and 75% off tolls.

The disadvantage in the early EVs is a lack of range which has zero impact on about 90% of Irish drivers. So, where is the con?

mirrorwall14 · 09-07-2018 06:42PM

The only disadvantage to electric vehicles from my perspective is you need your own driveway. My designated space is across the road so the only option it to get permission to bloody dig it up. Figure that out and I’d get one in a heartbeat

cournioni · 09-07-2018 07:20PM

...Ghost... wrote: »

What a short sighted, uninformed stream of drivvel inspired by glimpsing at red tops and over exposure to bs radio ads.

Can you explain exactly how electric vehicles are a con? You seem to infer that they are just as bad as a diesel vehicle, but you could not be further from the truth. For a start, the materials used in the batteries is recyclable and will last for more than 10 years before they may need to be recycled. Can you recycle petrol, or diesel?

There is also the fact that the electricity used by an EV is generated outside of our urban centres. This cannot be said of your typical VW Passat or any other smoking box polluting the air around us. This is before we talk about most EVs charging at night when we have a higher proportion of renewable energy than fossil fuel energy and also before we acknowledge the strict environmental controls a power station adheres to compared to a diesel car which may or may not have their DPF in-situ.

Also those "hairdryers" are faster off the line and way more fun to drive than most cars puffing around the place. No need to pull into a fuel station and handle filthy equipment while paying €50+ for the privilege. An EV can be plugged into your garden socket and fully charge for not much more than a euro and it's ready for the morning.

It's also nice to have free parking in many places around the country. Oh, and free public charging and 75% off tolls.

The disadvantage in the early EVs is a lack of range which has zero impact on about 90% of Irish drivers. So, where is the con?

Do us all a favour and read the thread.

Bubbaclaus · 09-07-2018 07:44PM

cournioni wrote: »

Do us all a favour and read the thread.

Says the fella claiming EV is merely a fad. You should inform every single major car manufacturer on the planet of your big scoop so they can stop pumping R&D money in the direction of a fad.

Wibbs · 09-07-2018 08:08PM

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Its coming whether you like it or not.

You Leccy car fan(atics) seem to be unbelievably defensive when anyone makes any statement that isn't 100% genuflecting to your cause celebre. You clearly missed the part in the same post where I said that this was a good thing. NB this was a good thing. Just in case it gets lost in the mix again.

...Ghost... wrote: »

What a short sighted, uninformed stream of drivvel inspired by glimpsing at red tops and over exposure to bs radio ads.

I certainly wouldn't be nearly so dismissive of leccy cars - and in case you missed it, I think them a good thing - but again the fans of same can be near religious in fervour to the point of being manic. On the interwebs if anyone posts any critique, or even questions the Holy Bible of EV, it's uncanny how quickly the fervent will rush from nowhere to call them uninformed heretics. The Muskovite Church are even worse again. It's like a red flag goes up. They're akin to those paid by Israel types who wait on the interwebs to pounce on any criticism of the place.

Faster off the line? Yes Teslas are bloody quick(mostly in a straight line), but EV acolytes often seem convinced their Nissan Leaf or BMW i3 is a drag racer. They're most certainly not. A neighbour of mine, nice enough chap if fatally beige with a touch of the Sheldon Coopers, is into the whole EV thing and has been since the first series Honda Insight(which I liked I have to say. About as exciting as lukewarm custard to drive, but a quirky cute little thing with some cool tech for the time). He's gone through a succession of hybrids then fully electric with Leafs and is on his second one of them and is lining up a BMW i3 soon. We'll ignore the whole "upgrade" every few years waste and environmental impact which passes him by... He's convinced his Leaf is a rocket ship(8 seconds to 100 clicks is not a rocket ship Ted). He referred to the i3 as sporty after a test drive with one. I've read similar from some reviewers and I truly wonder what the hell they've driven before(then again car "reviews" or all kinds are to be taken with a large grain of salt). I've driven a few EV's and they do what they do well and for what they are, which outside of Teslas are city hatchback runabouts for populating Tesco car parks, and yes they are better than their petrol equivalent, but they're about as "sporty" as a Sumo Wrestler on the Tour De France.

As for handling "filthy equipment" in petrol stations? Jesus. How delicate are people? Again I'm seeing Sheldon Cooper with the hand wipes.

To channel Gandhi when he was asked about Christianity, he replied along the lines of liking Christ, but wasn't so sure about Christians. I feel similarly about EVs. I like the tech and some of the cars, but the drivers I'm not so sure about.

cournioni · 09-07-2018 08:21PM

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Says the fella claiming EV is merely a fad. You should inform every single major car manufacturer on the planet of your big scoop so they can stop pumping R&D money in the direction of a fad.

Says the fella about what now? I’ve read the thread thanks very much, involved in it from early on.

If VW hadn’t been dishonest about their emissions, EV’s wouldn’t be a topic of conversation at all.

Of course now that it is the trend, albeit a gimmicky one, manufacturers are jumping on the bandwagon (because there’s money to be made clearly), but very few have fully committed... why is that?

09-07-2018 08:23PM

I don't know anything about anything and probably less about cars BUT my main issue with electric cars is that so many look like they need a giant key stuck on the back of them to wind them up.

Seems to be changing a bit. Not fast enough, mind.

ancapailldorcha · 09-07-2018 08:24PM

Candie wrote: »

I don't know anything about anything and probably less about cars BUT my main issue with electric cars is that so many look like they need a giant key stuck on the back of them to wind them up.

Seems to be changing a bit. Not fast enough, mind.

It's the sort of thing society is going to have to adapt to though there are signs of progress. I used to live near Wormwood Scrubs and they've put charging ports outside it. Mad having them in front of a crumbling old Victorian prison but there you are.

Bubbaclaus · 09-07-2018 08:35PM

cournioni wrote: »

If VW hadn’t been dishonest about their emissions, EV’s wouldn’t be a topic of conversation at all.

Well this gives a clear indication of the level of your knowledge in this area. Will just ignore your posts on this topic from now on. Suggest everyone else does likewise.

09-07-2018 08:42PM

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

It's the sort of thing society is going to have to adapt to though there are signs of progress. I used to live near Wormwood Scrubs and they've put charging ports outside it. Mad having them in front of a crumbling old Victorian prison but there you are.

Not too far away from where I was for a couple of months until recently.

The childhood threat when I was naughty was that I'd be sent to the Scrubs, I'm still a bit scared going past. Just in case.

Twenty Grand · 09-07-2018 08:46PM

cournioni wrote: »

Of course now that it is the trend, albeit a gimmicky one, manufacturers are jumping on the bandwagon (because there’s money to be made clearly), but very few have fully committed... why is that?

Maybe because nearly all manufacturers have 100 years and billions of dollars invested in ICE technology. Maybe it's because ICE is all they know how to build? Maybe because all their business models, R&D, and manufacturing is based on ICE and not on EV. Maybe because all their garages, maintenance and salespeople havent a notion on EV?
Maybe because the technology isn't quite mature yet? Maybe because it's easier to do what you know than what you don't?

But they're all looking at it. They're all investing. They're all looking for their niche and they're all looking at Tesla get an unprecedented interest in a technology they had written off decades ago.

cournioni · 09-07-2018 08:49PM

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Well this gives a clear indication of the level of your knowledge in this area. Will just ignore your posts on this topic from now on. Suggest everyone else does likewise.

You’re suggesting that the VW scandal hasn’t pushed EV’s into a mainstream topic of conversation? Think that says more about your lack of knowledge of the motor industry than it says about mine or anyone else’s.

I take it you have no arguments and are resorting to the old ignore and silence tactic. Good lad, you’ve done EVs and Muskites a great service.

cournioni · 09-07-2018 09:10PM

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Maybe because nearly all manufacturers have 100 years and billions of dollars invested in ICE technology. Maybe it's because ICE is all they know how to build? Maybe because all their business models, R&D, and manufacturing is based on ICE and not on EV. Maybe because all their garages, maintenance and salespeople havent a notion on EV?
Maybe because the technology isn't quite mature yet? Maybe because it's easier to do what you know than what you don't?

But they're all looking at it. They're all investing. They're all looking for their niche and they're all looking at Tesla get an unprecedented interest in a technology they had written off decades ago.

Of course they’re looking at it, they’re looking at it and some are actively pushing it because of the bad press diesel has gotten since the VW emissions scandal, and saw an opportunity to make money out of it.

That doesn’t make it any less of a gimmick though.

Guy:Incognito · 09-07-2018 09:13PM

cournioni wrote: »

I know we’ve had a good couple of weeks, but best of luck making that viable in Ireland. It can barely heat the water ffs!

Yeah it was terrible back in school when you could only use that solar powered calculator 2 or 3 times a year cos that how solar panels work..............

cournioni · 09-07-2018 09:15PM

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Yeah it was terrible back in school when you could only use that solar powered calculator 2 or 3 times a year cos that how solar panels work..............

Love the calculator comparison!

Capt'n Midnight · 09-07-2018 09:38PM

prinzeugen wrote: »

As for the hyper-loop... He might want to read a history book. The Victorians tried similar technology (right here in Dublin) and it didn't work. Its impossible to create a full vacuum on earth and even a partial vacuum is a nightmare to maintain.

It did work. The problem was the rats eating the leather seals.

The Hyperloop won't work for mass transit for two reasons.

First is that they'll be travelling so fast that you'll need large radius of curvature to keep the g forces down in the curves. You can't have it following terrain or curve it around exting infrastructure. So lots of bridges and tunnels and stilts and right of way issues.

Second is the stopping distance or rather the time it takes to come to a complete stop limits the number of vehicles that can use it any time. It's as if the port tunnel could only take two taxi's at any one time, instead of a steady stream of buses.

...Ghost... · 09-07-2018 09:49PM

Wibbs wrote: »

I certainly wouldn't be nearly so dismissive of leccy cars - and in case you missed it, I think them a good thing

Great, so lets see how we go.

- but again the fans of same can be near religious in fervour to the point of being manic. On the interwebs if anyone posts any critique, or even questions the Holy Bible of EV, it's uncanny how quickly the fervent will rush from nowhere to call them uninformed heretics. The Muskovite Church are even worse again. It's like a red flag goes up. They're akin to those paid by Israel types who wait on the interwebs to pounce on any criticism of the place.

What has that got to do with EVs? That's only talking in a mildly derogatory fashion about certain EV enthusiasts. First time I have seen the term "Muskovite" though. I applaud the man for his efforts though.

Faster off the line? Yes Teslas are bloody quick(mostly in a straight line), but EV acolytes often seem convinced their Nissan Leaf or BMW i3 is a drag racer. They're most certainly not.

Without talking about Teslas, most other EVs are quicker off the line. I never mentioned drag racing, or top speeds. What matters in the city, where we spend much time at traffic lights, is off the line response. EVs are great for this, leaving ICE vehicles behind.

SNIP neighbour irrelevant SNIP We'll ignore the whole "upgrade" every few years waste and environmental impact which passes him by

I had to remove most of the paragraph about your neighbour. It went on a bit.

The person buying the used EV is almost certainly someone getting rid of (possibly by scrapping) a petrol/diesel. I don't see a problem with that. Expired EV batteries are used as battery storage. What are expired engines used for?

I've driven a few EV's and they do what they do well and for what they are, which outside of Teslas are city hatchback runabouts for populating Tesco car parks, and yes they are better than their petrol equivalent, but they're about as "sporty" as a Sumo Wrestler on the Tour De France.

I get the impression you haven't driven any EVs. A spin up and down the road/ Tesco car park doesn't really count. I've driven the Ioniq and I am a Leaf owner. I have had my share of German and Japanese cars. I much prefer driving an EV, but I wouldn't go as far as to call the two above sports cars. They are good cars which are quite nippy. Sumo wrestler? Really?

As for handling "filthy equipment" in petrol stations? Jesus. How delicate are people? Again I'm seeing Sheldon Cooper with the hand wipes.

When you witness grown men at the diesel pump with one hand down their tracksuit holding their sweaty nuggets and the other hand intermittently pumping diesel and picking nose/ear/bum, you might agree that a bit of Sheldon Cooper hygiene awareness is not a bad thing.

To channel Gandhi when he was asked about Christianity, he replied along the lines of liking Christ, but wasn't so sure about Christians. I feel similarly about EVs. I like the tech and some of the cars, but the drivers I'm not so sure about.

I was talking about cars, not religion. But it doesn't seem that you like the tech much, unless you consider luke warm custard to be likeable.

cournioni wrote: »

If VW hadn’t been dishonest about their emissions, EV’s wouldn’t be a topic of conversation at all.

Of course now that it is the trend, albeit a gimmicky one, manufacturers are jumping on the bandwagon (because there’s money to be made clearly), but very few have fully committed... why is that?

That's not correct at all. EVs were catching on and becoming a topic of conversation before VW were caught fooling us all.

Manufacturers are jumping on the bandwagon because they know the ICE will soon be dead. They are however going to squeeze every last dirty drop of profit they can with diesel engines. That's why it appears they are not committed.

cournioni wrote: »

You’re suggesting that the VW scandal hasn’t pushed EV’s into a mainstream topic of conversation? Think that says more about your lack of knowledge of the motor industry than it says about mine or anyone else’s.

I take it you have no arguments and are resorting to the old ignore and silence tactic. Good lad, you’ve done EVs and Muskites a great service.

VW can take the credit for their lies and for polluting our cities and towns with their "green/clean diesel", but not for pushing EVs into mainstream conversation. They have added fuel to the fire, forgive the pun.

Wibbs · 09-07-2018 09:56PM

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Maybe because nearly all manufacturers have 100 years and billions of dollars invested in ICE technology. Maybe it's because ICE is all they know how to build? Maybe because all their business models, R&D, and manufacturing is based on ICE and not on EV. Maybe because all their garages, maintenance and salespeople havent a notion on EV?
Maybe because the technology isn't quite mature yet? Maybe because it's easier to do what you know than what you don't?

But they're all looking at it. They're all investing. They're all looking for their niche and they're all looking at Tesla get an unprecedented interest in a technology they had written off decades ago.

Your last line is nonsense. They hadn't "written off" the tech decades ago. Electric cars(and hydrogen) were a near constant fixture in the major car makers R&D departments especially post the early 70's fuel crisis. BMW, VW, Toyota, Ford, GM had electric and fuel cell development cars. A few small car makers in the States actually produced a few thousand for sale way back in the 70's. GM actually produced and sold an electric car, the EV1 back in the early 90's. It didn't sell well. Nature of the market, economics and the tech back then(IIRC the range was an "official" 100 miles) meant the roads and drivers minds weren't ready for it. Common with new tech. Though in the very early days of the car the battery was king for a time. The ICE won out over it(and steam) because of the market, the infrastructure and economics. Maybe if Henry Ford had made the Model T a battery car we'd have had a very different 20th century. Though unlikely. Oil was cheap and locally produced in the US so...

Regardless, too many of the EV faithful seem to think Musk invented the damn things and are all too quick to pass on his marketing spiel. Reality distortion field again.

As for salesmen not having a notion about EV. Hell most have scant enough notion about ICE. Regardless its hardly rocket science is it? Power, range, charge times. Everything else is just a car. technicians would require training, but EV maintenance is arguably easier and faster to train up in the basics than ICE and the electric motor itself will require less maintenance anyway. It'll be the computer stuff and ancillaries that will require the attention.

And why have they taken a wait and see attitude? Good bloody business sense. When you're selling many millions of ICE cars and other vehicles per year and turning a massive profit(crazy concept) and the current EV market is tiny and an emerging one, it's better to let first adopters and their buyers take the hit of mistakes and research and development. Especially when you have a gigantic production machine that could with a few tweaks go over to EV production pretty quickly and free R&D depts competitors like Tesla couldn't hope to match you. Or you wait until they go belly up and buy up the brand. Such things can be like colonising a new place; pioneers take the arrows, settlers take the land.

Wibbs · 09-07-2018 10:37PM

...Ghost... wrote: »

What has that got to do with EVs? That's only talking in a mildly derogatory fashion about certain EV enthusiasts.

I have found pretty much every vocal EV enthusiast I've met or encountered online to be the very definition of fanboys to the point of irritating. Not women EV types mind you. Then again women tend to be far less nerdy and blinkered to the point of mentalism than men as general thing.

First time I have seen the term "Muskovite" though. I applaud the man for his efforts though.

That's my term to be fair. So do I. I like Musk. He's a risk taker and chancer in about equal measure and lord knows we need more of them.

Without talking about Teslas, most other EVs are quicker off the line. I never mentioned drag racing, or top speeds. What matters in the city, where we spend much time at traffic lights, is off the line response. EVs are great for this, leaving ICE vehicles behind.

No, they really don't. Unless you're comparing them to 1 litre hatchbacks. As I said 8 seconds to 100kms isn't quick. Never mind that city driving is hardly the place for willie measuring at the lights. My own car is by no means a drag racer, 6 seconds to 100 if I nail it. A Leaf might get to 20 before me, but after that you'd require a pair of binoculars to read my reg plate.

I had to remove most of the paragraph about your neighbour. It went on a bit.

Medice cura te ipsum.

The person buying the used EV is almost certainly someone getting rid of (possibly by scrapping) a petrol/diesel. I don't see a problem with that. Expired EV batteries are used as battery storage. What are expired engines used for?

And how many such batteries are used this way in Ireland? So in your head swapping out your car every three years or so for new is somehow green? Are you sure you're not my neighbour? I can bring you to trade car parks today(well, its a bit late, so tomorrow) with a fair few Leafs sitting there. Yes they are potentially more use after death, but society will need to make sure they are. The environmental cost of manufacturing an EV is higher than an ICE and every time someone buys into the new car upgrade path they're hardly offsetting that impact, even if it gives them a self satisfied dopamine hit about how "green" they are.

I get the impression you haven't driven any EVs. A spin up and down the road/ Tesco car park doesn't really count.

You'd be wrong. I haven't driven an Ioniq to be fair. Or a Tesla, sat in one, that's about it. I've driven the Beemer i3(sat in an i8) and a Leaf. Second series IIRC.

I've driven the Ioniq and I am a Leaf owner. I have had my share of German and Japanese cars. I much prefer driving an EV, but I wouldn't go as far as to call the two above sports cars. They are good cars which are quite nippy.

I would agree the Leaf is a good car, for what it is. And certainly a better general city shopping hatchback car than the equivalent ICE. Looks are subjective and even hairy babies look lovely to their parents. Though it's not quite as ugly as a Skoda Roomster, which is an offence to the eyes. Driving wise I found it utterly devoid of feedback and feel. To be fair its not promoted as a drivers car and that's a common enough issue with many modern cars regardless of their motive power. One feels like a vaguely disconnected passenger with extra responsibilities, wearing a wetsuit and a condom.

Sumo wrestler? Really?

It's called a humorous comparison.

When you witness grown men at the diesel pump with one hand down their tracksuit holding their sweaty nuggets and the other hand intermittently pumping diesel and picking nose/ear/bum, you might agree that a bit of Sheldon Cooper hygiene awareness is not a bad thing.

Jaysus, what kind of garage forecourts do you frequent?

And no, I'd consider worrying about that a near mental pathology, next step OCD and perpetual handwashing. Maybe you should think about all the sweaty balled men and itchy gusseted women who have handled the plug on a public charge point the next time you plug in your Leaf. Or are EV owners naturally more OCD level clean and sterile for some reason? Maybe they are...

I was talking about cars, not religion. But it doesn't seem that you like the tech much, unless you consider luke warm custard to be likeable.

You

country mile

point. Apologies, I'll try to be more literal in future.

...Ghost... · 10-07-2018 01:00AM

I wonder what car you drive if I were to need a pair of binoculars to see you after hitting 20. Most cars on Irish roads are boring hatches and commuter diesels. This is what I was talking about and I thought I had made that clear. I’m not comparing a Leaf to a 370Z.

So you have driven two EVs. Not for very long I suspect. I’ve sat in super cars. It’s not the same as test driving one for a few hours. I hear the i3 is great fun to drive. Not my cup of tea in any event. I’m not a fan of the Leaf looks. The new one is much nicer and the difference between the SV and SVE is stark, with the SVE being a much tighter ride.

There have been very few Leafs scrapped in Ireland, but of the ones I am aware, the batteries have been stripped out and used for battery storage, or on converted personal transport vehicles. I never suggested changing cars every 3 years, so please don’t put words in my mouth to try make a point. In response to your question, I believe that it is greener if I were to buy a new EV and sell it on in 3 years when compared to doing the same with an ICE car. This is because my used EV will most likely be replacing an ICE vehicle. While the initial environmental impact of an EV is higher, it takes only a short time for the impact of an ICE vehicle to overtake the EV. Plus, the battery is reused and recycled, voiding the additional environmental impact for an EV. It doesn’t matter who drives the EV until its end of life, as long as someone drives it until it can’t be driven anymore.

I am no clean freak, but petrol and diesel pumps have a lot more than fuel residue on the handles. There is a reason many garages supply gloves and/or paper towel beside the pumps. Plugging an EV into a public charger only takes a few seconds. Hands are not idle long enough for nugget foraging. I would imagine the EV pump (and ev owner) is cleaner

Also as an aside, the EV1 was never for sale. They only leased them and refused to extend the leases despite the protests from lease holders who wanted to continue leasing, or who wanted to buy the vehicles. GM preferred to scrap them.

kyote00 · 10-07-2018 02:00AM

ahem....Henry's wife did drive an electric.....

https://www.thehenryford.org/artifact/209957/

https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/a1609/4215940/

Wibbs wrote: »

Maybe if Henry Ford had made the Model T a battery car we'd have had a very different 20th century.

God created Elon Musk to be a supervillain but forgot to flip the last switch.

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