Ireland is now only 82% Native Irish.

vladmydad · 15-12-2018 09:08AM #1

Without the racist, xenophobic accusations and all that crap, does anyone have any concerns about just how rapidly the Irish people are decreasing in Ireland ?
It’s a very recent phenomenon and given that immigration into Ireland is ever increasing and that the birth rates of the “new” Irish are dramatically higher than natives. It is inevitable that 82% will soon be 70% , 55%, 40% etc.

There is no debate in Irish media or politics about this and we have never voted on the issue. In fact it’s actually taboo. What are your thoughts?

Water John · 15-12-2018 09:10AM

I'm only half Irish, one side of my family came here from France in the 1600s.

EDit · 15-12-2018 09:10AM

How is native Irish defined? Who makes up the other 18%?

mikemac2 · 15-12-2018 09:11AM

The OP will be shocked if they ever watch an Irish international football match. The manager from that midlands county named Barnsley

Water John wrote: »

I'm only half Irish, one side of my family came here from France in the 1600s.

You taking the horse to France ?

Working class heroes · 15-12-2018 09:11AM

Racists in 3...2....1.....

Ronan|Raven · 15-12-2018 09:13AM

I am only a filthy half native Irish.

Palmach · 15-12-2018 09:14AM

vladmydad wrote: »

Without the racist, xenophobic accusations and all that crap, does anyone have any concerns about just how rapidly the Irish people are decreasing in Ireland ?
It’s a very recent phenomenon and given that immigration into Ireland is ever increasing and that the birth rates of the “new” Irish are dramatically higher than natives. It is inevitable that 82% will soon be 70% , 55%, 40% etc.

There is no debate in Irish media or politics about this and we have never voted on the issue. In fact it’s actually taboo. What are your thoughts?

I am not bothered. Culture counts in my book not colour or ethnicity. As long as the New Irish blend in there'll be no problem. Remember when the Normans gave they were culturally distinct but gradually became more Irish than the Irish themselves. If you start hearing the word Sharia that's when the alarm bells should ring.

Big Nasty · 15-12-2018 09:15AM

Good. We've long needed a bit of mix in our gene pool.

PirateShampoo · 15-12-2018 09:15AM

What's Native?

My daughter is only half Irish with me being Welsh. She's born and raised here.

Is the kid in her class that was born here and has a Dublin accent but Polish parents, is he Native?

Plumbthedepths · 15-12-2018 09:18AM

My family came to Ulster during the 'Plantation' from Scotland before that from Norway.

ArchXStanton · 15-12-2018 09:18AM

There's no doubt Ireland is changing rapidly, even a walk around the city centre or my hometown you hear languages from everywhere... Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing I really don't know, one thing I do notice is the fluidity of the way Irish people interact with each other, regardless if they know each other or not.it seems to be lacking in other nationalities.

vladmydad · 15-12-2018 09:20AM

PirateShampoo wrote: »

What's Native?

My daughter is only half Irish with me being Welsh. She's born and raised here.

Is the kid in her class that was born here and has a Dublin accent but Polish parents, is he Native?

Don’t the people make the place ?
I mean if I went to Japan in 40 years and saw (hypothetically) 50% Nigerian , am I in Japan anymore ?

aaakev · 15-12-2018 09:22AM

vladmydad wrote: »

There is no debate in Irish media or politics about this and we have never voted on the issue. In fact it’s actually taboo. What are your thoughts?

whats there to vote on? Most of our new folk are from the eu so can come here freely and contribute well to the economy, can hardly stop them having kids

Discodog · 15-12-2018 09:24AM

vladmydad wrote: »

Without the racist, xenophobic accusations and all that crap, does anyone have any concerns about just how rapidly the Irish people are decreasing in Ireland ?
It’s a very recent phenomenon and given that immigration into Ireland is ever increasing and that the birth rates of the “new” Irish are dramatically higher than natives. It is inevitable that 82% will soon be 70% , 55%, 40% etc.

There is no debate in Irish media or politics about this and we have never voted on the issue. In fact it’s actually taboo. What are your thoughts?

Proof ?

You omit emigration. Many immigrants are here to fill jobs due to the labour shortage.

vladmydad · 15-12-2018 09:27AM

I know people keep mentioning the Normans, Vikings and the plantations but all of those either came with huge violence or ended up in violence, why would this recent influx be any different in the long run ?

Fighting Tao · 15-12-2018 09:27AM

Ah, one of those not racist but is racist threads. Well done OP for covering that off in your initial post. Then continue on your racist way with your other posts.

vladmydad · 15-12-2018 09:29AM

Working class heroes wrote: »

Racists in 3...2....1.....

God I hope not, I’m just looking for a genuine discussion as it’s non existent anywhere in Irish media

rizzodun · 15-12-2018 09:30AM

vladmydad wrote: »

It is inevitable that 82% will soon be 70% , 55%, 40% etc.

Ahhh, random numbers pulled out of ones arse to back up an argument.

vladmydad wrote: »

Don’t the people make the place ?
I mean if I went to Japan in 40 years and saw (hypothetically) 50% Nigerian , am I in Japan anymore ?

Yes, unless it's like the island from lost.

enricoh · 15-12-2018 09:31AM

According to the last census 18% foreign born, in reality I'd be surprised if its not close to 25%

_Brian · 15-12-2018 09:32AM

I don’t care who comes and goes as long as they are decent people and contribute to society.
We have an awful problem with “Irish natives” who sponge, sponge, sponge and have done for generations, they pop out kids at a savage rate and so the cycle goes on. This needs to be addressed before we worry about housing poor unfortunates coming from active war zones with their families.

I would love to see a swifter asylum process where decisions were made quickly and those proven to be genuine cases given permits to work and those not making the cut sent immediately back to their point of origin.

vladmydad · 15-12-2018 09:32AM

rizzodun wrote: »

vladmydad wrote: »

It is inevitable that 82% will soon be 70% , 55%, 40% etc.

Ahhh, random numbers pulled out of ones arse to back up an argument.

vladmydad wrote: »

Don’t the people make the place ?
I mean if I went to Japan in 40 years and saw (hypothetically) 50% Nigerian , am I in Japan anymore ?

Yes, unless it's like the island from lost.

But our birth rates are lower so of course Native percentage will continue to decline

Wanderer78 · 15-12-2018 09:34AM

_Brian wrote:

I donâ€™t care who comes and goes as long as they are decent people and contribute to society. We have an awful problem with â€œIrish nativesâ€ who sponge, sponge, sponge and have done for generations, they pop out kids at a savage rate and so the cycle goes on. This needs to be addressed before we worry about housing poor unfortunates coming from active war zones with their families.

The root causes of long term unemployment are a lot more complicated than just sponging unfortunately

EDit · 15-12-2018 09:35AM

I repeat ....

EDit wrote: »

How is native Irish defined? Who makes up the other 18%?

You’re saying you want a discussion, but you can’t even answer the most basic question as to “native” means

Fighting Tao · 15-12-2018 09:36AM

vladmydad wrote: »

But our birth rates are lower so of course Native percentage will continue to decline

What is 'Native'? Some arbitrary definition?

Surely, it only means Irish Traveller as that group is the only one that is defined. The rest of us are a mix of many different nationalities down the centuries. As invaders/immigrants dna mixed with the locals who weren't actually locals in the first place.

vladmydad · 15-12-2018 09:38AM

But does anyone find the complete silence on the issue a little Orwellian, I mean it’s a radical societal change in just 20 years with unknown ramifications for future generations and yet it’s just not spoken of.

_Brian · 15-12-2018 09:38AM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

The root causes of long term unemployment are a lot more complicated than just sponging unfortunately

Your right.
It’s the normalisation of being professionally unemployed by parents and passing that message to their hoard of state sponsored kids.
Kids who grow up knowing nobody in their family who work or want to work, why educate or try to better yourself when every family member is doing just fine on the scratcher .

lawred2 · 15-12-2018 09:39AM

vladmydad wrote: »

I know people keep mentioning the Normans, Vikings and the plantations but all of those either came with huge violence or ended up in violence, why would this recent influx be any different in the long run ?

Yeah not xenophobic at all at all

Shefwedfan · 15-12-2018 09:40AM

Irish school are growing and it’s not just “full Irish” attending....that is great thing to see

The loss of the Irish language is a bigger tragedy that a rating to say what percentage you are irish or not

Instead of people worried about who is coming into the country why not try to act Irish and not American like most people try to do.....

Bit rich for us to complain when Irish people have travelled the world for years and expected to be always accepted

Wanderer78 · 15-12-2018 09:41AM

_Brian wrote:

Your right. Itâ€™s the normalisation of being professionally unemployed by parents and passing that message to their hoard of state sponsored kids. Kids who grow up knowing nobody in their family who work or want to work, why educate or try to better yourself when every family member is doing just fine on the scratcher .

Far far more complicated than that, but learned behaviour can also be an element

Wanderer78 · 15-12-2018 09:43AM

Shefwedfan wrote:

The loss of the Irish language is a bigger tragedy that a rating to say what percentage you are irish or not

I'd be more concerned about kids not gaining the most critical life skills via our educational system than learning Irish to be honest

Plumbthedepths · 15-12-2018 09:43AM

vladmydad wrote:

Yes, unless it's like the island from lost.

But our birth rates are lower so of course Native percentage will continue to decline[/quote]

What do you consider native? Like how many generations back do you believe needs to qualify one as native Irish?

Shefwedfan · 15-12-2018 09:45AM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

I'd be more concerned about kids not gaining the most critical life skills via our educational system than learning Irish to be honest

Would that not be a parents job?

Palmach · 15-12-2018 09:47AM

Fighting Tao wrote: »

Ah, one of those not racist but is racist threads. Well done OP for covering that off in your initial post. Then continue on your racist way with your other posts.

Well done you for your silly knee jerk reaction. One of the reasons migration does not discussed as much as it should is that birdbrains like you start this rubbish. Not discussing it leads to Brexit, the EDL, Le Pen Trump etc. If it happens here you really will be clutching your pearls.

Wanderer78 wrote: »

I'd be more concerned about kids not gaining the most critical life skills via our educational system than learning Irish to be honest

The impact of large scale migration on schools is a real problem especially when they don't have a basic grasp of the language. It takes much planning and resources to adequately address it.

Fighting Tao · 15-12-2018 09:50AM

Palmach wrote: »

Well done you for your silly knee jerk reaction. One of the reasons migration does not discussed as much as it should is that birdbrains like you start this rubbish. Not discussing it leads to Brexit, the EDL, Le Pen Trump etc. If it happens here you really will be clutching your pearls.

Not knee jerk at all. Faux concern for 'Native' Irish and the failure to answer simple questions are a very good hint of the reasoning of the thread. Also, the follow up posts, all the medias fault for not mentioning immigration etc... But then don't let the facts from the OP's posts get in the way of a good rant.

Wanderer78 · 15-12-2018 09:51AM

Shefwedfan wrote:

Would that not be a parents job?

Unfortunately we ain't born with parenting skills, it's something we learn, it's a work in progress, include some complicated elements into the equation, such as poverty and inequality, and you ll quickly have major problems. These issues are a true reflection of ourselves, greater society, we re not willing to accept social failures, instead we d rather blame the individuals involved, because, well it's easier to do so, and it absolves those not directly involved.

vladmydad · 15-12-2018 09:52AM

EDit wrote: »

I repeat ....

EDit wrote: »

How is native Irish defined? Who makes up the other 18%?

You’re saying you want a discussion, but you can’t even answer the most basic question as to “native” means

It’s what’s mentioned in the census, I guess they mean Gaelic, which has been the dominant genetic identity , despite invasions, of the inhabitants of this island for thousands of years.

MadDog76 · 15-12-2018 09:53AM

PirateShampoo wrote: »

What's Native?

My daughter is only half Irish with me being Welsh. She's born and raised here.

Is the kid in her class that was born here and has a Dublin accent but Polish parents, is he Native?

No.

ArchXStanton · 15-12-2018 09:53AM

Palmach wrote: »

Well done you for your silly knee jerk reaction. One of the reasons migration does not discussed as much as it should is that birdbrains like you start this rubbish. Not discussing it leads to Brexit, the EDL, Le Pen Trump etc. If it happens here you really will be clutching your pearls.

The impact of large scale migration on schools is a real problem especially when they don't have a basic grasp of the language. It takes much planning and resources to adequately address it.

A relation of mine teaches young children in a very mixed school, they have to wear picture cards around their necks and point to different things the kids want/need/are asked.

coastwatch · 15-12-2018 09:54AM

It's a great development, we badly needed to add some "good lookin" genes to the irish gene pool, we were a bunch of pale and pasty freckle heads for far too long.

Shefwedfan · 15-12-2018 09:56AM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Unfortunately we ain't born with parenting skills, it's something we learn, it's a work in progress, include some complicated elements into the equation, such as poverty and inequality, and you ll quickly have major problems. These issues are a true reflection of ourselves, greater society, we re not willing to accept social failures, instead we d rather blame the individuals involved, because, well it's easier to do so, and it absolves those not directly involved.

I’m not sure I get you, so because we don’t know how to parent we expect some 20 year old straight out of college to do it for us?

Shocking if true....

Yes we don’t know how to parent but then we train ourselves like we do in our jobs

I would never expect a school to provide my children with critical life skills

So back to point, the loss of the Irish language is a bigger trategy than a couple of percent on some rating system

kneemos · 15-12-2018 09:57AM

If the children of immigrants are born here surely they are native Irish?

Peatys · 15-12-2018 09:58AM

vladmydad wrote: »

Without the racist, xenophobic accusations and all that crap, does anyone have any concerns about just how rapidly the % of Dublin people are decreasing in Dublin. In fact it’s actually taboo. What are your thoughts?

Boggers driving up rents, taking our jobs.. tis tirrible joe

vladmydad · 15-12-2018 09:58AM

coastwatch wrote: »

It's a great development, we badly needed to add some "good lookin" genes to the irish gene pool, we were a bunch of pale and pasty freckle heads for far too long.

Haha true but I mean it’s a radical change in demographics in such a short period of time, surely we need more discussion on it.

Peatys · 15-12-2018 09:59AM

kneemos wrote: »

If the children of immigrants are born here surely they are native Dublin?

No. They'd still be boggers. Just second generation boggers. They'll still go on to be teachers and guards. None of them would work in a warehouse for example.

vladmydad · 15-12-2018 09:59AM

kneemos wrote: »

If the children of immigrants are born here surely they are native Irish?

No not genetically. Just like if I was born in Japan I’m not genetically Japanese.

Fighting Tao · 15-12-2018 09:59AM

kneemos wrote: »

If the children of immigrants are born here surely they are native Irish?

Not in this thread.

stimpson · 15-12-2018 10:00AM

ArchXStanton wrote: »

A relation of mine teaches young children in a very mixed school, they have to wear picture cards around their necks and point to different things the kids want/need/are asked.

Balls. Kids brains are wired to learn language very easily. Plenty of non national kids in my kids school. Many started in junior infants with no English. None of them had this and they all have picked it up quickly.

Personally speaking as long as they integrate well I don’t care where they are from. A bit of diversity does us good by deepening the green pool and bringing a fresh outlook. I’d happily swap some hard working Polish immigrants for our native dole scroungers.

Peatys · 15-12-2018 10:02AM

stimpson wrote: »

Personally speaking as long as they integrate well I don’t care where they are from. A bit of diversity does us good by deepening the green pool and bringing a fresh outlook. I’d happily swap some hard working Kerry immigrants for our native dole scroungers.

Agreed. They are a great resource of knowledge when it comes to gardening

stimpson · 15-12-2018 10:04AM

Stop twisting my words. I don’t mind the Poles but I draw the line at Kerrymen.

kneemos · 15-12-2018 10:04AM

vladmydad wrote: »

No not genetically. Just like if I was born in Japan I’m not genetically Japanese.

People who get those Gene pool tests are a mix of all sorts.

How do you definitely genetically Irish?

Edgware · 15-12-2018 10:06AM

coastwatch wrote: »

It's a great development, we badly needed to add some "good lookin" genes to the irish gene pool, we were a bunch of pale and pasty freckle heads for far too long.

You won't say that when some half breed Klingon Martian starts banging your daughter with his xxl cock

Ireland is now only 82% Native Irish.

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