can somone explain the loop through function on the TIVIAR Alpha Plus??

swoofer · 13-12-2018 12:54PM #1

I have set up this box for a friend so often look on here but there has been mention of people with one feed using the loop through function to LNB2, this has me puzzled as I always thought loop through was for another sat box.

What would be the use of looping through on a single feed? Is it feasible?

Gerry Wicklow · 13-12-2018 02:40PM

My understanding is that the loop through is a hangover from the days when you sometimes had a separate decoder box for premium channels. The problem with trying to split or share a satellite coax between tuners is that each tuner needs to send control signals to the LNB. Satellite LNBs cover horizontal low band, horizontal high band, vertical low and vertical high. Two tuners would conflict trying to send different control voltages to the LNB. It is possible to disable the voltage signals from the 2nd tuner but that means it will only be able to see the same band and polarity that the controlling tuner is watching.
In other words it not worth the hassle.

Johnboy1951 · 13-12-2018 03:09PM

Gerry Wicklow wrote: »

My understanding is that the loop through is a hangover from the days when you sometimes had a separate decoder box for premium channels. The problem with trying to split or share a satellite coax between tuners is that each tuner needs to send control signals to the LNB. Satellite LNBs cover horizontal low band, horizontal high band, vertical low and vertical high. Two tuners would conflict trying to send different control voltages to the LNB. It is possible to disable the voltage signals from the 2nd LNB but that means it will only be able to see the same band and polarity that the controlling tuner is watching.
In other words it not worth the hassle.

I look forward to a future where Unicable LNBs are standard, and such a 'Loop-Through' would be fitted by default for supplying more tuner devices.
They would at least serve a useful purpose in that case.

cuculainn · 19-12-2018 11:15AM

Gerry Wicklow wrote: »

My understanding is that the loop through is a hangover from the days when you sometimes had a separate decoder box for premium channels. The problem with trying to split or share a satellite coax between tuners is that each tuner needs to send control signals to the LNB. Satellite LNBs cover horizontal low band, horizontal high band, vertical low and vertical high. Two tuners would conflict trying to send different control voltages to the LNB. It is possible to disable the voltage signals from the 2nd tuner but that means it will only be able to see the same band and polarity that the controlling tuner is watching.
In other words it not worth the hassle.

So do i take from this that if I only have one feed currently coming to the box my options are to bring a second feed (which is doable but a good bit off work)
or
replace the LNB with a unicable LNB? (much less work)

are there any pros or cons to each option?

thanks

Johnboy1951 · 19-12-2018 11:49AM

cuculainn wrote: »

So do i take from this that if I only have one feed currently coming to the box my options are to bring a second feed (which is doable but a good bit off work)
or
replace the LNB with a unicable LNB? (much less work)

are there any pros or cons to each option?

thanks

I don't believe the Tiviar tuners are Unicable compatible ..... you would need to check the manual to be sure.

A Unicable option is indeed available in this box! Nice!

In that case a second coax feed is probably the best option.

spooner_j · 19-12-2018 12:20PM

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I don't believe the Tiviar tuners are Unicable compatible ..... youwould need to check the manual to be sure.
In that case a second coax feed is probably the best option.

Just had a look at the manual and it looks like there are settings in it for Unicable
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/799026/Tiviar-Alpha-Plus.html?page=22

I'm intrigued about this option, hadnt heard of it before. Like cuculainn I have a single feed into my box, and getting a second cable in would be very difficult. Was contemplating buying a Stacker/Destacker set, but maybe Unicable is the better option? Has anyone done this successfully with a Tiviar?

cuculainn · 19-12-2018 12:32PM

spooner_j wrote: »

Just had a look at the manual and it looks like there are settings in it for Unicable
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/799026/Tiviar-Alpha-Plus.html?page=22

I'm intrigued about this option, hadnt heard of it before. Like cuculainn I have a single feed into my box, and getting a second cable in would be very difficult. Was contemplating buying a Stacker/Destacker set, but maybe Unicable is the better option? Has anyone done this successfully with a Tiviar?

Based on another thread I wonder is the manual you are looking at for the original firmware or the enigma2 that seems to have replaced it?

Johnboy1951 · 19-12-2018 12:37PM

cuculainn wrote: »

Based on another thread I wonder is the manual you are looking at for the original firmware or the enigma2 that seems to have replaced it?

spooner_j wrote: »

Just had a look at the manual and it looks like there are settings in it for Unicable
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/799026/Tiviar-Alpha-Plus.html?page=22

I'm intrigued about this option, hadnt heard of it before. Like cuculainn I have a single feed into my box, and getting a second cable in would be very difficult. Was contemplating buying a Stacker/Destacker set, but maybe Unicable is the better option? Has anyone done this successfully with a Tiviar?

You would need a suitable splitter for the coax from the Unicable LNB to feed the two tuners, and also need to set up the frequency used on the tuners so they don't clash, and are output by the LNB.
Other than that being Unicable compatible should mean it will work.

spooner_j · 19-12-2018 12:56PM

cuculainn wrote: »

Based on another thread I wonder is the manual you are looking at for the original firmware or the enigma2 that seems to have replaced it?

Perhaps. I'd have to have a look tonight when I'm home, see if those options are there

swoofer · 19-12-2018 01:29PM

yes that's the original manual with the original software.

NewClareman · 19-12-2018 02:59PM

spooner_j wrote: »

Perhaps. I'd have to have a look tonight when I'm home, see if those options are there

The settings in OpenATV are under advanced settings for the particular Tuner.

spooner_j · 09-01-2019 04:53PM

Decided to go ahead and try a Unicable setup for my Tiviar. Bought this LNB and it works great!

https://www.world-of-satellite.co.uk/satellite-and-terrestrial/universal-and-unicable-lnb/gt-sat-unicable-lnb/gt-sat-gt-dlnb1dy-unicable-II-24scr-lnb

I removed the old LNB and replaced it with that one. One word of caution, the neck of the Unicable LNB is a good bit wider than my old standard LNB so the plastic attachment to secure it to the arm of the dish didnt fit around it fully. However using a few cable ties I was able to get it secure on the dish arm.

I also bought one of the GT Sat splitters too. Using this I was then able to split the feed at the box so the Tuner 1 and Tuner 2 now both have a cable into them. After that I changed the tuner config in the Tiviar to Advanced, set it at Unicable, selected the manufacturer and brand, and put Tuner A on one channel and Tuner B on another channel. It now works perfectly, I can record and watch satellite simultaneously with only a single cable back to the dish.

I did try to use the loop through cable but I couldnt get it to work in this mode. Selecting Loop Through as Tuner B's config didnt work, nor did setting it as Unicable under Advanced. It was only when I used the GT Sat splitter that I was able to get both tuners working together.

Would recommend the setup to anyone who has similar difficulties in running a second cable back to the dish. Its an easy fix if you can access your dish easily to change the LNB.

Johnboy1951 · 09-01-2019 04:59PM

spooner_j wrote: »

Decided to go ahead and try a Unicable setup for my Tiviar. Bought this LNB and it works great!

https://www.world-of-satellite.co.uk/satellite-and-terrestrial/universal-and-unicable-lnb/gt-sat-unicable-lnb/gt-sat-gt-dlnb1dy-unicable-II-24scr-lnb

I removed the old LNB and replaced it with that one. One word of caution, the neck of the Unicable LNB is a good bit wider than my old standard LNB so the plastic attachment to secure it to the arm of the dish didnt fit around it fully. However using a few cable ties I was able to get it secure on the dish arm.

I also bought one of the GT Sat splitters too. Using this I was then able to split the feed at the box so the Tuner 1 and Tuner 2 now both have a cable into them. After that I changed the tuner config in the Tiviar to Advanced, set it at Unicable, selected the manufacturer and brand, and put Tuner A on one channel and Tuner B on another channel. It now works perfectly, I can record and watch satellite simultaneously with only a single cable back to the dish.

I did try to use the loop through cable but I couldnt get it to work in this mode. Selecting Loop Through as Tuner B's config didnt work, nor did setting it as Unicable under Advanced. It was only when I used the GT Sat splitter that I was able to get both tuners working together.

Would recommend the setup to anyone who has similar difficulties in running a second cable back to the dish. Its an easy fix if you can access your dish easily to change the LNB.

I thought you might have been able to get the second tuner working when using just the one feed to the first tuner, simply by applying the second frquency to tuner 2 ...... without the need for the splitter or the loop through.

I have a Digibit R1 quad tuner, and a single cable into the first tuner is sufficient to feed all four tuners in Unicable mode.
[the tuners have individual connections for use in legacy mode, so three are unused in Unicable mode].

Glad it all worked out for you

EDIT: got a link for the spillter you used? Thanks.

NewClareman · 09-01-2019 09:51PM

spooner_j wrote: »

Decided to go ahead and try a Unicable setup for my Tiviar. Bought this LNB and it works great!

https://www.world-of-satellite.co.uk/satellite-and-terrestrial/universal-and-unicable-lnb/gt-sat-unicable-lnb/gt-sat-gt-dlnb1dy-unicable-II-24scr-lnb...

...I did try to use the loop through cable but I couldnt get it to work in this mode. Selecting Loop Through as Tuner B's config didnt work, nor did setting it as Unicable under Advanced. It was only when I used the GT Sat splitter that I was able to get both tuners working together.

I’m delighted it worked for you. At some stage soon I’ll need to replace my main dish and I’ll then switch the Tiviar to Unicable.

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I thought you might have been able to get the second tuner working when using just the one feed to the first tuner, simply by applying the second frquency to tuner 2 ...... without the need for the splitter or the loop through...

I would have expected the same, as the loop cable does work with a quad lnb, proving that LNB1 Out does give passthrough. (I use that Configuration with a Humax Foxsat, and a Unicable LNB.

@spooner_j did you try the loop cable with the same settings as with the splitter?

Johnboy1951 · 10-01-2019 12:08AM

NewClareman wrote: »

I’m delighted it worked for you. At some stage soon I’ll need to replace my main dish and I’ll then switch the Tiviar to Unicable.

I would have expected the same, as the loop cable does work with a quad lnb, proving that LNB1 Out does give passthrough. (I use that Configuration with a Humax Foxsat, and a Unicable LNB.

@spooner_j did you try the loop cable with the same settings as with the splitter?

I expect the lop through might not be required to operate the second tuner in Unicable mode ...... but that would depend on the firmware of the device I guess and I have no knowledge of that.

NewClareman · 10-01-2019 11:21AM

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I expect the lop through might not be required to operate the second tuner in Unicable mode ...... but that would depend on the firmware of the device I guess and I have no knowledge of that.

I agree with you, in this case it also depends on the OpenATV/Enigma2 implementation. I may have mislead spooner_j, by describing the loop through configuration, in another thread. I would suspect that that Configuration is solely for legacy LNB’s (i.e. non-Unicable), so that the software can adapt to the limitations of a single transponder operation, with dual tuners.

That’s why I suggested he try his current settings, using the loop cable rather than a splitter, as I suspect that this will work properly.

Johnboy1951 · 10-01-2019 11:35AM

NewClareman wrote: »

I agree with you, in this case it also depends on the OpenATV/Enigma2 implementation. I may have mislead spooner_j, by describing the loop through configuration, in another thread. I would suspect that that Configuration is solely for legacy LNB’s (i.e. non-Unicable), so that the software can adapt to the limitations of a single transponder operation, with dual tuners.

That’s why I suggested he try his current settings, using the loop cable rather than a splitter, as I suspect that this will work properly.

I also am unsure if he tried setting up both tuners with just the single cable attached and no splitter or loop through cable

spooner_j · 10-01-2019 03:10PM

got a link for the spillter you used? Thanks.

This is the one I got https://www.world-of-satellite.co.uk/satellite-and-terrestrial/universal-and-unicable-lnb/gt-sat-unicable-lnb/gt-sat-gt-sp31-3-way-satellite-unicable-splitter
That's a 3-way splitter, you can get 2 and 4 way ones too.

@spooner_j did you try the loop cable with the same settings as with the splitter?

I also am unsure if he tried setting up both tuners with just the single cable attached and no splitter or loop through cable

I tried several different combinations of settings... Not sure exactly what! I dont think I tried having Tuner A and Tuner B configured but only a cable in Tuner A, is that what you mean? I tried several options with the loop through cable attached, had the tuners both configured with Unicable settings and with Equal To setting but it didnt seem to work.

When you have Unicable setup on Tuner A there's an option under Tuner A for "Connected To" and you can select Tuner B from here. I had the loop through cable connected at this point and Tuner B configred to Loop through but the box then crashed totally and I had to restore from backup to get it up and running again... So I didnt experiment with everything related to that "Connected To" option any further.

You could well be right that you can get it all setup with just the single cable and no splitter, but at least it works well with the splitter now.

Johnboy1951 · 10-01-2019 03:46PM

spooner_j wrote: »

This is the one I got https://www.world-of-satellite.co.uk/satellite-and-terrestrial/universal-and-unicable-lnb/gt-sat-unicable-lnb/gt-sat-gt-sp31-3-way-satellite-unicable-splitter
That's a 3-way splitter, you can get 2 and 4 way ones too.

I tried several different combinations of settings... Not sure exactly what! I dont think I tried having Tuner A and Tuner B configured but only a cable in Tuner A, is that what you mean? I tried several options with the loop through cable attached, had the tuners both configured with Unicable settings and with Equal To setting but it didnt seem to work.

When you have Unicable setup on Tuner A there's an option under Tuner A for "Connected To" and you can select Tuner B from here. I had the loop through cable connected at this point and Tuner B configred to Loop through but the box then crashed totally and I had to restore from backup to get it up and running again... So I didnt experiment with everything related to that "Connected To" option any further.

You could well be right that you can get it all setup with just the single cable and no splitter, but at least it works well with the splitter now.

Yes that is what I meant.

NewClareman · 11-01-2019 11:44PM

spooner_j wrote: »

I tried several different combinations of settings... Not sure exactly what! I dont think I tried having Tuner A and Tuner B configured but only a cable in Tuner A, is that what you mean? I tried several options with the loop through cable attached, had the tuners both configured with Unicable settings and with Equal To setting but it didnt seem to work.

I’m away at the moment, so not near the box. However, I would expect that you don’t use the equal to setting, I would expect that setting to apply to legacy LNB’s. As each Unicable LNB must be on a different frequency, I would be surprised if that worked. Instead, your current settings, with the loop cable, rather than a splitter, should work, if the loop option works at all.

can somone explain the loop through function on the TIVIAR Alpha Plus??

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