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Should Ireland have mandatory military service?

24567…16

Comments

  • #32
    king_of_mayo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 127 ✭✭king_of_mayo


    elefant wrote: »
    And this is exactly what would happen. A huge percentage of our university graduates would leave the country.

    Fine, there's plenty who'll take their place from other countries. You'll ahve to do this before uni too. Don't want people skiving from the state, then running off when they have to do something for other people.

    If you go abroad to dodge it, you can never return without imprisonment.


  • #33
    pgj2015
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,998 ✭✭✭pgj2015


    El Tarangu wrote: »
    As far as I know, recruitment into the Defence Forces is over-subscribed, so there does not seem much point in having conscription, in that case.

    I think that compulsory military service would be a great way to encourage our most successful graduates to leave the country in droves, much in the same way that military service in Greece has*

    *I don't have any figures for this, but live in a country with a large Greek population; most of the young men I know (whom Greece has spent a lot of money educating to a high level) are living abroad at so that they won't have to do their military service.


    we used to have 10,000 soldiers, I think we have only 7,000 now. there are a lot leaving as the pay is so bad so military service would boost the numbers.


  • #34
    LawBoy2018
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,162 ✭✭✭LawBoy2018


    We don't need soldiers, hence why the reserves are paid peanuts. That's harsh but it's the reality.


  • #35
    joe40
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,813 ✭✭✭joe40


    jonnny68 wrote: »
    Absolutely this should happen, a large percentage of youths nowadays have no respect for anything or anyone, dragged up scumbags who think they are entitled to anything with no morals or values, a stint in the army would instil manners into them,.

    If they're in the Army but not out of choice how would it instill manners. They would just tell the commanding officer to f*CK off.
    Actual soldiers, accept the discipline because they want to be in the Army. The last thing a defense force needs are uncommitted recruits that would just be a waste of time and resources.


  • #36
    pgj2015
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,998 ✭✭✭pgj2015


    YellowBucket wrote: »
    Hmm, yeah teach the young hooligans to use guns. That’ll solve everything!

    The army isn’t a national baby sitting service for angsty teenagers and it’s already badly funded. It’s the proportionally the smallest in the EU and OECD.

    I think it’s insulting to the defence forces to ask them to do this.

    Why don’t you take them into your workplace for a year and provide them with on the job training?!



    what you dont seem to understand is the army can change the young hooligans into disciplined men.


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  • #37
    elefant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭elefant


    king_of_mayo wrote: »
    Fine, there's plenty who'll take their place from other countries. You'll ahve to do this before uni too. Don't want people skiving from the state, then running off when they have to do something for other people.

    If you go abroad to dodge it, you can never return without imprisonment.

    Okay, as a thought experiment, let's just take all that as a given for now.

    Everyone with a solid career ahead of them and a good education behind them is incentivised to leave Ireland. Do you honestly still think this seems like a good idea? And the idea of joining the army to 'do something for other people'? What a joke.


  • #38
    YellowBucket
    Closed Accounts Posts: 491 ✭✭YellowBucket


    To be realistic, this is about as likely as Ireland introducing the prohibition of alcohol, chips and abolishing the GAA.

    The concept of conscription goes utterly against the grain of Irish politics, doesn’t sit well with history or the national psyche generally.

    It’s just law and order Boardsies’ bubble fantasy.


  • #39
    pgj2015
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,998 ✭✭✭pgj2015


    LawBoy2018 wrote: »
    We don't need soldiers, hence why the reserves are paid peanuts. That's harsh but it's the reality.




    that is like saying we don't need riot police because we hardly ever have riots, lets just get rid of them. all countries should have soldiers.


  • #40
    LawBoy2018
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,162 ✭✭✭LawBoy2018


    jonnny68 wrote: »
    Absolutely this should happen, a large percentage of youths nowadays have no respect for anything or anyone, dragged up scumbags who think they are entitled to anything with no morals or values, a stint in the army would instil manners into them,.

    Said every boomer ever. "A large percentage..." yawn.


  • #41
    pgj2015
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,998 ✭✭✭pgj2015


    elefant wrote: »
    Okay, as a thought experiment, let's just take all that as a given for now.

    Everyone with a solid career ahead of them and a good education behind them is incentivised to leave Ireland. Do you honestly still think this seems like a good idea?



    why would they leave? is 1 year in the Irish army going to be so bad? its not like they are being trained as gladiators and have to fight each other to the death each week.


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  • #42
    joe40
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,813 ✭✭✭joe40


    MarkR wrote: »
    I think it's a great idea. Everyone should have to do something. Military would be good for discipline, but it should be spread out to roles in the community. Should be linked to some form of accreditation so that they have something tangible at the end.

    I think something like that has merit, maybe some sort of national service /community work/military whatever.

    I don't like the idea of it been mandatory but maybe it could be used for leaving cert points or some other tangible benefit.

    A lot of kids have no experience of work outside of school. Not necessarily their fault, sometimes options aren't available.


  • #43
    Calahonda52
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,241 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    OU812 wrote: »
    So, let me get this straight...

    You want to take the scumbags we have (a small proportion of the population, but they're there), toughen them up even more, arm them and train them how to use weapons more effectively???

    FMJ

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSbdIZyPaoQ

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



  • #44
    YellowBucket
    Closed Accounts Posts: 491 ✭✭YellowBucket


    pgj2015 wrote: »
    what you dont seem to understand is the army can change the young hooligans into disciplined men.

    Yeah I’ve encountered many a British soldier on holidays on the Spanish costas and at football matches and they’re always a model of non tattooed, friendly, well behaved discipline and sobriety.


  • #45
    elefant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭elefant


    pgj2015 wrote: »
    why would they leave? is 1 year in the Irish army going to be so bad? its not like they are being trained as gladiators and have to fight each other to the death each week.

    Why would they stay? It's of no benefit to the vast, vast majority of Irish people in their twenties.


  • #46
    LawBoy2018
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,162 ✭✭✭LawBoy2018


    pgj2015 wrote: »
    that is like saying we don't need riot police because we hardly ever have riots, lets just get rid of them. all countries should have soldiers.

    No actually, it's not, at all. The very fact that there may be a riot is reason enough to have riot police. Why on earth would we ever need soldiers? To fight in all of those wars we're involved in? Lol.


  • #47
    king_of_mayo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 127 ✭✭king_of_mayo


    elefant wrote: »
    Okay, as a thought experiment, let's just take all that as a given for now.

    Everyone with a solid career ahead of them and a good education behind them is incentivised to leave Ireland. Do you honestly still think this seems like a good idea? And the idea of joining the army to 'do something for other people'? What a joke.

    1) It'll be some service to the state. General work, or hsopital or army.

    2) Frankly I think if someone at age 17/18, wants to forgo their life here then fine. The rules are the rules. We could do with getting rid of the wasters.

    3) We're giving a huge leg up to the young people. Think of all you'd learn in 3 years, then uni and life. Or you might find your calling and do a trade or whatever. You'll be housed, fed, paid and learn something. It's win win.


  • #48
    pgj2015
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,998 ✭✭✭pgj2015


    Strumms wrote: »
    Yes I don’t think that in a democracy, it’s very democratic if a percentage of its population is forced for a year of their lives into a job / situation that isn’t of their liking or choosing....



    Look, we are lucky were were born in such a great country, Ireland is one of the best countries in the world to live in. if they cant give 1 year back then there is something wrong, also its not like they will be breaking rocks all day, they will be taught valuable life skills, discipline etc.


  • #49
    king_of_mayo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 127 ✭✭king_of_mayo


    Strumms wrote: »
    Yes I don’t think that in a democracy, it’s very democratic if a percentage of its population is forced for a year of their lives into a job / situation that isn’t of their liking or choosing....

    Legally we're all "forced" to take a few years of education. You don't get a choice. Most people (non-cranks) agree that's a good thing.


  • #50
    elefant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭elefant


    king_of_mayo wrote: »
    1) It'll be some service to the state. General work, or hsopital or army.

    2) Frankly I think if someone at age 17/18, wants to forgo their life here then fine. The rules are the rules. We could do with getting rid of the wasters.

    3) We're giving a huge leg up to the young people. Think of all you'd learn in 3 years, then uni and life. Or you might find your calling and do a trade or whatever. You'll be housed, fed, paid and learn something. It's win win.

    People don't owe anything to the state.

    The people you'd be most likely to be 'rid of' are the people most likely to be positive contributors to society.

    Most young people don't need whatever leg up 3 years of servitude is supposed to offer.


  • #51
    joe40
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,813 ✭✭✭joe40


    64000 students did the junior cert last year,
    that would be the type of numbers involved every year. Do you honestly think the military could cope with that number of recruits to train, house etc

    Military service is a non runner, the Army wouldn't accept it.


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  • #52
    pgj2015
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,998 ✭✭✭pgj2015


    LawBoy2018 wrote: »
    No actually, it's not, at all. The very fact that there may be a riot is reason enough to have riot police. Why on earth would we ever need soldiers? To fight in all of those wars we're involved in? Lol.



    The Irish government were discussing buying figher jets lately, when do we usually need them? just because we dont normally need something, doesnt mean we wont need it in the future.

    https://www.aerotime.aero/clement.charpentreau/25295-ireland-considers-first-fighter-jet-acquisition-in-45-years


  • #53
    Doctors room ghost
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,837 ✭✭✭Doctors room ghost


    Sardonicat wrote: »
    We could just pay our soldiers better. Make it an attractive career option that attracts the kind of person that doesn't require 'sorting out'. Why would you want gougers in our army?





    It would help take the no good,entitled,lay abouts off the streets and give them something to do for the day instead of going around stealing from people who are away at work.a purpose to get up in the morning and a feeling of worth perhaps.


  • #54
    king_of_mayo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 127 ✭✭king_of_mayo


    elefant wrote: »
    People don't owe anything to the state.

    With rights (benefits safety net, the protections of the law etc etc) come responsibility (do your service).

    Wasters have plenty of other countries to slink off to if they so want.


  • #55
    elefant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭elefant


    pgj2015 wrote: »
    Look, we are lucky were were born in such a great country, Ireland is one of the best countries in the world to live in. if they cant give 1 year back then there is something wrong, also its not like they will be breaking rocks all day, they will be taught valuable life skills, discipline etc.

    Why do people keep talking about national service like Irish people owe something to the state? What are you 'giving 1 year back' for?


  • #56
    pgj2015
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,998 ✭✭✭pgj2015


    elefant wrote: »
    Why do people keep talking about national service like Irish people owe something to the state? What are you 'giving 1 year back' for?



    free educations, child benefit, all the sports grounds, social welfare etc free houses. things like that maybe.


  • #57
    wassie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,034 ✭✭✭wassie


    You forgot tax.....


  • #58
    elefant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭elefant


    king_of_mayo wrote: »
    With rights (benefits safety net, the protections of the law etc etc) come responsibility (do your service).

    Wasters have plenty of other countries to slink off to if they so want.
    pgj2015 wrote: »
    free educations, child benefit, all the sports grounds, social welfare etc free houses. things like that maybe.

    Are you proposing the elimination of state taxes to go along with the plan for years of service?


  • #59
    king_of_mayo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 127 ✭✭king_of_mayo


    pgj2015 wrote: »
    free educations, child benefit, all the sports grounds, social welfare etc free houses. things like that maybe.

    People flash their passports abroad, get all the backing of the Irish state, know that if sht hits the fan, they've got your back. Lose your job at home? State's got you. Someone broke a contract with you? State's got you.

    And then when asked to contribute to the state, and get stuff in return, they faint and are on the first flight to wasterville.


  • #60
    Hoop66
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,734 ✭✭✭Hoop66


    Military service is a bad idea. Build up your army and sooner or later you start looking for something to use it on.

    A much better idea would be some sort of civic service, as other posters have suggested. Don't make it mandatory, but make the benefits of doing it very appealing. Like free university or trade school, something like that. Make Citizen Service a badge of honour, something people are proud of having done.


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  • #61
    LawBoy2018
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,162 ✭✭✭LawBoy2018


    pgj2015 wrote: »
    Look, we are lucky were were born in such a great country, Ireland is one of the best countries in the world to live in. if they cant give 1 year back then there is something wrong, also its not like they will be breaking rocks all day, they will be taught valuable life skills, discipline etc.

    A great country for whom? What makes it so fantastic, in your opinion? Is it the fact that they're fortunate enough to pay €800-900/month to rent a box room in Dublin with random strangers in order to study at third level? Or the fact that a bus from Ballina to Dublin takes 5 hours? Or the fact that unless you live in a large town/city, you mightn't even have access to broadband? Or maybe it's the fact that unless you receive a grant, you will be 40K in debt after a 4 year course in university? Or the fact that Irish people are the only citizens within the EU without a second language? In all likelihood, it's probably the fact that unless a Gen X/millennial inherits a home from their parents, they will most likely be renting in a precarious rental sector for the rest of their lives.

    Young people owe this country nothing.


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