How do you feel about paying tax? US/Ireland comparison

frozenfrozen · 07-12-2020 06:41PM

I just saw this headline about america as well "The average cost of a cellphone plan in the US is $113"

Unless you have loads of money america will have long congested commutes on cracked concrete highways with about two "curves" on your way to work. They still have 2 litre diesel golfs and priuses over there.

it's not great here, especially with exotic cars being pushed out of reach unless you are using loopholes or have stupid money.

But I think for average people the effect is the public just end up in a worse specced version of whatever car they would have got anyway, which is a shame but I personally wouldn't trade it for a slice of the USA **** show.

reubenreuben · 07-12-2020 06:42PM

McGrath5 wrote: »

I don't enjoy paying all the associated taxes that comes with owning and running a car but it is what it is.

At the end of the day the rest of society is subsidizing me driving around and if anything the taxes on cars, private ones in particularly should be more than what they are now.

Not sure why the OP is comparing us with the US. I been over there loads of times and life is hopelessly dependent on the car. Its common not to be able to walk between buildings that are only a couple of hundred meters apart due to no footpath!

No footpaths? Not sure where you live but Ireland has a massive lack of footpaths. Pathetic infact.

NSAman · 07-12-2020 07:13PM

frozenfrozen wrote: »

I just saw this headline about america as well "The average cost of a cellphone plan in the US is $113"

If you are not smart and just let the cell companies away with murder then yes the above is correct.

My monthly bill for cell phone is $45. Everyone in this office's bill is $45.

We have changed from multiple phones to individual prepay. The difference. is somewhere in the region of 60 per month per cell phone.

The difference in service? Extra 10GB of data per phone.

Henry Ford III · 07-12-2020 11:19PM

Since paying motoring taxes is unavoidable what's the point in fretting about them?

kirving · 07-12-2020 11:20PM

NSAman wrote: »

First and foremost safety is paramount for me. You don’t get charged the crazy extras (including VRT ) for safety options that you do in Ireland.

It's absolutely scandalous that VAT and VRT is charged on safety equipment here. There needs to be no VRT on safety systems which are qualified to a minimum level at EuroNCAP.

It goes further than cars too, I bought my mountain bike helmet from the UK as it was about €60 cheaper than here. I would have only been able to afford/justify a lesser product if I bought it here.

CiniO · 07-12-2020 11:45PM

McGrath5 wrote: »

I don't enjoy paying all the associated taxes that comes with owning and running a car but it is what it is.

At the end of the day the rest of society is subsidizing me driving around and if anything the taxes on cars, private ones in particularly should be more than what they are now.

Can you explain how is that? I honestly can't see how possibly rest of society be subsidizing you driving around. I think it's exactly the opposite - by paying your motortax, vrt, and silly insurance, you are being drained out of money very unfairly.

chalky_ie · 08-12-2020 12:00AM

I don't mind the concept of increasing tax based on pollution metrics, but I think the top end is far too penal. A €1300 -€1500 a year upper limit would be fair enough to ward off most people, while still allowing enthusiasts to own interesting cars, which most likely won't even be driven that much, when compared to cars lower on the scale.

Elite Genetics · 08-12-2020 10:41AM

frozenfrozen wrote: »

I just saw this headline about america as well "The average cost of a cellphone plan in the US is $113"

Unless you have loads of money america will have long congested commutes on cracked concrete highways with about two "curves" on your way to work. They still have 2 litre diesel golfs and priuses over there.

it's not great here, especially with exotic cars being pushed out of reach unless you are using loopholes or have stupid money.

But I think for average people the effect is the public just end up in a worse specced version of whatever car they would have got anyway, which is a shame but I personally wouldn't trade it for a slice of the USA **** show.

Long congested commutes. You do know that Ireland has one of the worst traffic problems in Europe? Which is bizarre considering that it also has one of the lowest populations.

https://www.tomtom.com/en_gb/traffic-index/ranking/

https://www.statista.com/chart/21084/average-hours-lost-to-congestion-per-driver-in-major-european-cities/

Talking absolute nonsense without any proof. Looking for any excuse to **** on the US without even having lived there and commuted. Commuting is a breeze because of multiple lane wide roads. Everything is designed around cars so it is much better than Ireland in this specific regard.

Elite Genetics · 08-12-2020 10:42AM

McGrath5 wrote: »

I don't enjoy paying all the associated taxes that comes with owning and running a car but it is what it is.

At the end of the day the rest of society is subsidizing me driving around and if anything the taxes on cars, private ones in particularly should be more than what they are now.

Not sure why the OP is comparing us with the US. I been over there loads of times and life is hopelessly dependent on the car. Its common not to be able to walk between buildings that are only a couple of hundred meters apart due to no footpath!

Yes, I too want to know how the hell is the rest of society subsiding you driving around and that taxes should be more.

redcup342 · 08-12-2020 01:23PM

PsychoPete wrote: »

I've a friend from Eastern Europe, he has a 3.5 S class out there and it's less than €100 a year to tax

What part of Eastern Europe ... 100 quid a year is a lot of money in Ukraine :pac: never mind the repair bills from the roads.

Elite Genetics · 08-12-2020 01:30PM

redcup342 wrote: »

What part of Eastern Europe ... 100 quid a year is a lot of money in Ukraine :pac: never mind the repair bills from the roads.

Most eastern european countries don't even have such a thing called motor tax, just a car test similar to nct and vehicle insurance which costs pennies and once insured, anyone can drive the car as long as they have a license.

redcup342 · 08-12-2020 02:07PM

Elite Genetics wrote: »

Most eastern european countries don't even have such a thing called motor tax, just a car test similar to nct and vehicle insurance which costs pennies and once insured, anyone can drive the car as long as they have a license.

Most Central and Eastern European Countries.

Comparing Polish Insurance to Irish Insurance as expensive is cherry picking once you consider a Polish Salary to an Irish one.

Dutch Insurance is very cheap for example in Comparison to Germany but cars are way more expensive and taxes are higher.

Then on the other side German Health Insurance can be 3 times more expensive than Dutch (if you are single)

So yes you can compare individual things that are cheaper in another country, if you ask yourself the question would you go live and work there the answer is usually no.

smellyoldboot · 08-12-2020 06:27PM

redcup342 wrote: »

Most Central and Eastern European Countries.

Comparing Polish Insurance to Irish Insurance as expensive is cherry picking once you consider a Polish Salary to an Irish one.

Dutch Insurance is very cheap for example in Comparison to Germany but cars are way more expensive and taxes are higher.

Then on the other side German Health Insurance can be 3 times more expensive than Dutch (if you are single)

So yes you can compare individual things that are cheaper in another country, if you ask yourself the question would you go live and work there the answer is usually no.

Germany and Holland? In a heartbeat. Both years ahead of this place tbh.

Elite Genetics · 08-12-2020 06:30PM

redcup342 wrote: »

Most Central and Eastern European Countries.

Comparing Polish Insurance to Irish Insurance as expensive is cherry picking once you consider a Polish Salary to an Irish one.

Dutch Insurance is very cheap for example in Comparison to Germany but cars are way more expensive and taxes are higher.

Then on the other side German Health Insurance can be 3 times more expensive than Dutch (if you are single)

So yes you can compare individual things that are cheaper in another country, if you ask yourself the question would you go live and work there the answer is usually no.

Most countries in the world don't have such a system so yes, would move immediately. Working on getting a visa now so I can drive without getting punished for absolutely no reason.

Idbatterim · 08-12-2020 06:41PM

redcup342 wrote: »

What part of Eastern Europe ... 100 quid a year is a lot of money in Ukraine :pac: never mind the repair bills from the roads.

What would be the point in even collecting the likes of a hundred per year... if they were bothered about changing behaviour, ninety percent plus of new cars on the road and way over fifty percent of all private cars in this country, wouldn't be having as good as free motor tax...

Its lunacy! It's an absolute cash bonanza here for government. Hence the year on the reg plate etc... make motor tax e500_600 minimum for petrol and double for diesel, like they do in Holland and some might consider a car or second car...

I know transport here is appalling, but as good as free motor tax and then in some cases insane motor tax, is idiocy...

redcup342 · 09-12-2020 01:59PM

smellyoldboot wrote: »

Germany and Holland? In a heartbeat. Both years ahead of this place tbh.

Exactly, I wouldn't move to Ireland because I can pickup a second hand car for peanuts or healthcare is pretty much free vs 360 euros a month.

It's all about quality of life not about picking out individual things that are cheaper somewhere else.

Elite Genetics · 09-12-2020 02:34PM

redcup342 wrote: »

Exactly, I wouldn't move to Ireland because I can pickup a second hand car for peanuts or healthcare is pretty much free vs 360 euros a month.

It's all about quality of life not about picking out individual things that are cheaper somewhere else.

Yeah it's free and good luck waiting a year or two for your appointment and try not to die of a heart disease that wasn't diagnosed in time.

redcup342 · 09-12-2020 05:41PM

Elite Genetics wrote: »

Yeah it's free and good luck waiting a year or two for your appointment and try not to die of a heart disease that wasn't diagnosed in time.

Exactly my point .. what are you missing here, cheaper in Ireland

Would i move there : no

Andrewf20 · 09-12-2020 06:20PM

Elite Genetics wrote: »

Long congested commutes. You do know that Ireland has one of the worst traffic problems in Europe? Which is bizarre considering that it also has one of the lowest populations.

https://www.tomtom.com/en_gb/traffic-index/ranking/

https://www.statista.com/chart/21084/average-hours-lost-to-congestion-per-driver-in-major-european-cities/

Talking absolute nonsense without any proof. Looking for any excuse to **** on the US without even having lived there and commuted. Commuting is a breeze because of multiple lane wide roads. Everything is designed around cars so it is much better than Ireland in this specific regard.

I've lived in the USA twice and been to 41 states and would tend to disagree. Portland i26 can have horrendous traffic for miles. Similar in phoenix in rush hour on the i10. There's been loads of other places where morning and evening traffic can be horrific. Getting into manhattan is very busy with a load of tolls. Similar in denver, San fran etc. Bigger roads but bigger populations and limited public transport. Ireland has crap traffic in big cities but so too does the USA from my experience.

Andrewf20 · 09-12-2020 07:39PM

Elite Genetics wrote: »

Long congested commutes. You do know that Ireland has one of the worst traffic problems in Europe? Which is bizarre considering that it also has one of the lowest populations.

https://www.tomtom.com/en_gb/traffic-index/ranking/

https://www.statista.com/chart/21084/average-hours-lost-to-congestion-per-driver-in-major-european-cities/

Talking absolute nonsense without any proof. Looking for any excuse to **** on the US without even having lived there and commuted. Commuting is a breeze because of multiple lane wide roads. Everything is designed around cars so it is much better than Ireland in this specific regard.

These photos below are a daily occurrence in Portland and Phoenix during the week pre covid and its a common theme across the USA.

redcup342 · 09-12-2020 08:17PM

Andrewf20 wrote: »

These photos below are a daily occurrence in Portland and Phoenix during the week pre covid and its a common theme across the USA.

:pac:

Yep can confirm Traffic is brutal in much of the west of Germany, I spent 3 hours to go 27 Kilometers on the way back from Berlin last time to Dusseldorf

Never mind that though, have you ever been in a Traffic Jam in Los Angeles .. Jesus H Christ worst place ever

Elite Genetics · 10-12-2020 11:19AM

Andrewf20 wrote: »

I've lived in the USA twice and been to 41 states and would tend to disagree. Portland i26 can have horrendous traffic for miles. Similar in phoenix in rush hour on the i10. There's been loads of other places where morning and evening traffic can be horrific. Getting into manhattan is very busy with a load of tolls. Similar in denver, San fran etc. Bigger roads but bigger populations and limited public transport. Ireland has crap traffic in big cities but so too does the USA from my experience.

I've been to 50 states, all of regions of Canada and Mexico. Then I've been to every single country in South America and driven hundreds of thousands of miles and I disagree.

1. Most states in US are bigger than Ireland. You cannot just take a massive mega region with population 10 times as that of Ireland and say that the traffic is bad.
2. Dublin has no excuse, it has the population of a district in a big city like New York but still cannot handle the traffic and has one of the worst in Europe with the smallest population. You'd swear that Dublin is a a colossal city on the likes of New York and London, are you really comparing them?

London population: 8 million
Dublin population: 1 million

Dublin is the same size as a regional town in Germany or US and vast majority of them don't suffer these issues.

Elite Genetics · 10-12-2020 11:23AM

Andrewf20 wrote: »

These photos below are a daily occurrence in Portland and Phoenix during the week pre covid and its a common theme across the USA.

Of course, US has so many megaregions with massive populations. Is Dublin a megaregion?

Elite Genetics · 10-12-2020 11:24AM

redcup342 wrote: »

Andrewf20 wrote: »

These photos below are a daily occurrence in Portland and Phoenix during the week pre covid and its a common theme across the USA.

:pac:

Yep can confirm Traffic is brutal in much of the west of Germany, I spent 3 hours to go 27 Kilometers on the way back from Berlin last time to Dusseldorf

Never mind that though, have you ever been in a Traffic Jam in Los Angeles .. Jesus H Christ worst place ever

Germany is massively overpopulated with density many times as that of Ireland.

JimmyVik · 10-12-2020 11:30AM

Its the VRT that annoys me. Even more than the motor tax.

Andrewf20 · 10-12-2020 01:44PM

Elite Genetics wrote: »

I've been to 50 states, all of regions of Canada and Mexico. Then I've been to every single country in South America and driven hundreds of thousands of miles and I disagree.

1. Most states in US are bigger than Ireland. You cannot just take a massive mega region with population 10 times as that of Ireland and say that the traffic is bad.
2. Dublin has no excuse, it has the population of a district in a big city like New York but still cannot handle the traffic and has one of the worst in Europe with the smallest population. You'd swear that Dublin is a a colossal city on the likes of New York and London, are you really comparing them?

London population: 8 million
Dublin population: 1 million

Dublin is the same size as a regional town in Germany or US and vast majority of them don't suffer these issues.

But you claimed "Commuting is a breeze because of multiple lane wide roads." I think this claim is too generalized.

Yes - alot of cities in the USA are bigger in terms of population than Dublin but they are also bigger in terms of land area & therefore population density is arguably similar to Dublin, Cork etc.

Portland's population is similar to Dublin (653K vs 544k) but still has very bad traffic despite multi laned roads and a light rail system. Same in Albaquerque & Atlanta for example - similar population to Dublin but very bad congestion. New Orleans was a pain also I remember. Population 390K according to wiki.

Example: Atlanta traffic among worst in world according to this article, and its population is less than Dublin.
https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/atlanta/atlanta-traffic-among-worst-in-the-world-study-finds/495851866/

Try leaving the Berkeley area of San Fran at 4pm - horrendous congestion, NY - tailbacks stretching back to New Jersey everyday. Austin & San Antonio, Texas similar, Denver, Phoenix, Seattle, LA etc.

Its not black and white. Dublin has crap traffic but so does the USA in alot of urbanised regions. Their lack of public transport appears to negate their larger roads to a large degree.

Andrewf20 · 10-12-2020 02:52PM

Elite Genetics wrote: »

1. Most states in US are bigger than Ireland. You cannot just take a massive mega region with population 10 times as that of Ireland and say that the traffic is bad.

I didn't mention States. Phoenix and Portland are cities so I'm not sure what you are referring to here.

kaahooters · 10-12-2020 04:04PM

isnt op the troll that started the "im a strong man, how would a garda arrest me" thread?

Wibbs · 11-12-2020 01:12PM

Elite Genetics wrote: »

I've been to 50 states, all of regions of Canada and Mexico. Then I've been to every single country in South America and driven hundreds of thousands of miles and I disagree.

I'll believe that to oblige you...

kaahooters · 11-12-2020 03:28PM

Elite Genetics, you seem to have a real issue with being in ireland, mabey you shouldnt be if your not happy here like.

How do you feel about paying tax? US/Ireland comparison

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