WandaVision - Disney+ (Spoilers)

kerplun k · 08-03-2021 11:20PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

You disagree with Feige??
.

No, just you

Foxtrol · 08-03-2021 11:47PM

kerplun k wrote: »

No, just you

I'll again post the actual quote Feige said in the article you shared (not sure you bothered to actually read past the title).

Feige wrote:

"But it is very similar movie-to-movie, honestly. We try to make the stories unfold in a way that if you are following along and have seen what has preceded it, you'll be right up to speed. And more importantly, if you haven't, you'll be up to speed.

https://www.list.co.uk/article/124024-kevin-feige-marvel-fans-dont-need-to-watch-wandavision-to-understand-movies

You can keep wishing them to have no impact but that isn't what they've said and Wandavision has moved along the MCU as much as many movies (I'd argue more than some).

I'd expect not all shows will have the same level of impact but it seems like you drastically overestimate how much most of the movies move on the overall MCU narrative.

kerplun k · 09-03-2021 12:11AM

Foxtrol wrote: »

I'll again post the actual quote Feige said in the article you shared (not sure you bothered to actually read past the title).

https://www.list.co.uk/article/124024-kevin-feige-marvel-fans-dont-need-to-watch-wandavision-to-understand-movies

You can keep wishing them to have no impact but that isn't what they've said and Wandavision has moved along the MCU as much as many movies (I'd argue more than some).

I'd expect not all shows will have the same level of impact but it seems like you drastically overestimate how much most of the movies move on the overall MCU narrative.

No need to post the quote again. I was the one who shared the link so I know what he said.

I suppose at the start of infinity war the casual viewer just knew why half of Asgard. A one eyed Thor and Hulk was on ship being destroyed by Thanos?

I’ll say this one last time, these shows will not have that level of connection as the films. That’s my opinion and I’m sticking to it. Conversation over.

Foxtrol · 09-03-2021 01:46AM

kerplun k wrote: »

No need to post the quote again. I was the one who shared the link so I know what he said.

What you said was in the article wasn't true so you either didn't read it or purposefully misrepresented it.

I suppose at the start of infinity war the casual viewer just knew why half of Asgard. A one eyed Thor and Hulk was on ship being destroyed by Thanos?

I’ll say this one last time, these shows will not have that level of connection as the films. That’s my opinion and I’m sticking to it. Conversation over.

So on your 3rd try you've gotten one a movie where the audience might be confused, yet I'd argue that this was more due to the cold opening of it and an audience would be similarly confused if Multiverse of Madness opened with White Vision or their kids crying for help wherever they are.

I've already shown you how your previous two examples of Spiderman in Civil War and the Quantum Realm in Ant-man (as well as Black Panther and Dr Strange) were easy for writers to explain around for people who hadn't seen their movies. Even the beginning of Infinity War was explained pretty early on - Banner to Tony and Thor to the Guardians.

Happy to leave it there, you're entitled to your opinion but evidence simply doesn't support it. Miss certain movies and people would definitely struggle but in many very little happens that moves the needle on the wider MCU - I expect the TV shows to be a similar mix.

paulbok · 09-03-2021 12:57PM

Up until 12 months ago, Marvel/Feige didn't have a tv outlet for any shows, and they hadn't the control over those on Netflix etc that they now have on Disney+.
They can now use the shows to setup any particular or multiple future movies, or other shows for that matter, as slowly or as quickly as they want. Just because WandaVision didn't have a major reveal for X-men or the F4, doesn't mean another show won't.
The shows are just as much a part of the MCU as any movie and using them to remove any lengthy introductions of characters so those characters movies can get straight into action will help avoid fatigue with the whole MCU.

Plenty of revenue to be had off Disney + off the back of them in addition to the Movie billions. With potential changes to how movies are distributed following cinemas being laid up for the last year, they are also putting themselves into position to be able to release movies on their own in the future.

Cotts72 · 09-03-2021 04:16PM

I think Wandavision was in place to setup the start of phase 4 subtlety by opening the muktiverse which will. Obviously knock onto Dr strange / spiderman and allow them to bring through the next big bad whether that be Kang or Cython/Mephisto.

Falcon and winter soldier can set the blueprint for a new avengers team and who knows could set hints at xmen as they are exploring Madripoor

Again this is all speculation.. We haven't even had black widow or externals yet which should have been out by now on paper!

LFCFan · 09-03-2021 04:26PM

Whatever direction they are going the only thing I really want to see is Deadpool in a Guardians of the Galaxy movie. :eek::D

The Phantom Pain · 09-03-2021 06:14PM

i can't stop watching this moment:

Cotts72 · 09-03-2021 07:04PM

LFCFan wrote: »

Whatever direction they are going the only thing I really want to see is Deadpool in a Guardians of the Galaxy movie. :eek::D

Read an article over the weekend about marvel apparently replacing Stan Lee's movie cameos with deadpool going forward

PhiloCypher · 09-03-2021 07:06PM

Cotts72 wrote: »

Read an article over the weekend about marvel apparently replacing Stan Lee's movie cameos with deadpool going forward

That would be amazing

The Inbetween is mine · 09-03-2021 07:11PM

PhiloCypher wrote: »

That would be amazing

No..that would be absolutely self serving muck
Let Deadpool have his own gig, with perhaps a partnership in upcoming Spiderman movies.... having him.as a Stan Lee cameo is just a horrible idea

OU812 · 09-03-2021 10:29PM

Wouldn't be surprised if they just put Stan in the background by way of newspapers, photos, billboards etc, It doesn't need a full blown cameo, just a nod.

The Phantom Pain · 10-03-2021 04:19AM

They should let Kevin Feige do the cameos.
IMO he's more of a legend that Stand Lee (who took waaaaay too much credit)

Penn · 10-03-2021 07:12PM

Some comments from the showrunner and director regarding Evan Peters as Pietro:

https://www.ign.com/articles/wandavision-writer-quicksilver-cameo-not-a-prank-mcu-xmen

"I don't want anyone to feel like a prank was pulled on them. I don't want anyone to feel tricked and of course, you don't want people disappointed in things," she said, addressing those fans who were invested in the idea of the cameo potentially turning into an X-Men connection. "I would redirect to what the show is really about, and what is meaningful about the show, and what does resonate."

Schaeffer said the cameo was a way for the audience to get inside Wanda's headspace. She explained: "It was really about what's happening in Wanda's head and the idea that someone could show up and not look like her brother and that she would accept it. What's going on with her in terms of her denial, and her self-doubt, and her disorientation that Agatha could trick her in this way?

"We wanted to feel that very viscerally and it seemed like an incredible opportunity for the audience to feel it too with this meta-level of casting, with all of their associations to Evan in this other space. The idea of doing it with just any other actor, I'm like, 'That's not going to land.' That's not going to have the same thrill, and craziness, and questions, and be as disorienting."

WandaVision director Matt Shakman also spoke to IGN about the team's decision to bring Evan Peters into the MCU as a "fake Pietro." He explained how the cameo thematically tied into the show's narrative — particularly Wanda's inability to cope with the overwhelming loss that she has encountered throughout her life, and her all-consuming grief.

"Our whole show ultimately is about how we deal with trauma, how we come to terms with loss," he said. "And sometimes we trick ourselves, and sometimes we agree to see things that we know are not there, because it brings us some solace. She's willing to fall into the arms of Evan Peters, believing that it's Aaron Taylor-Johnson, because she needs it. And I think that my heart goes out to her for that."

sioda · 10-03-2021 09:11PM

Really glad I waited to watch this in a one day binge. The first 3 of I had watched weekly I think I would have jumped ship.

Really glad I didn't enjoyed it as a big screen to small screen transition. Loved Olsen and she holds the show well imo. Didn't see the Agnes twist coming and genuinely laughed at her sparky confession, great actress and character tbf.

Vision was as good as expected for the character. Will watch again if we get another season.

The Phantom Pain · 11-03-2021 02:09AM

Penn wrote: »

Some comments from the showrunner and director regarding Evan Peters as Pietro:

https://www.ign.com/articles/wandavision-writer-quicksilver-cameo-not-a-prank-mcu-xmen

While I get where she's coming from...you can't do something like this in a cinematic universe that is known for following reveals through and, most of all, that we know is introducing the-multi verse very soon in both Doctor Strange and SPider-Man which, by the way, is directly linked to Wandavision. I think they're definitely going to fix this down the line like they did the Mandarin.

FunLover18 · 11-03-2021 02:31AM

The Phantom Pain wrote: »

While I get where she's coming from...you can't do something like this in a cinematic universe that is known for following reveals through and, most of all, that we know is introducing the-multi verse very soon in both Doctor Strange and SPider-Man which, by the way, is directly linked to Wandavision. I think they're definitely going to fix this down the line like they did the Mandarin.

Leaving aside the fact that they can and they did, why can't they?

Foxtrol · 11-03-2021 05:28PM

FunLover18 wrote: »

Leaving aside the fact that they can and they did, why can't they?

Agreed, they can easily introduce the multiverse without Fox's X-universe being one of them.

To me it actually makes way more sense for the viewers to kill the Fox universe than leave it hand out there, as there are huge issues with having multiple actors being the same characters - we see that already with Pietro. There is no explanation I can think of for that - especially when X-men Pietro came from a different time period as well.

The route of least resistance for MCU is it is their characters but different - like Wanda's kids being alive in another multiverse or the whole premise of the 'What if' series that is coming out in the summer - each of those being a different multiverse.

They might shoe horn something different for Spiderman but I feel many are going to be extremely upset about how that plays out - too many hopes have been built up from a few rumours.

beakerjoe · 11-03-2021 06:00PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

Agreed, they can easily introduce the multiverse without Fox's X-universe being one of them.

To me it actually makes way more sense for the viewers to kill the Fox universe than leave it hand out there, as there are huge issues with having multiple actors being the same characters - we see that already with Pietro. There is no explanation I can think of for that - especially when X-men Pietro came from a different time period as well.

The route of least resistance for MCU is it is their characters but different - like Wanda's kids being alive in another multiverse or the whole premise of the 'What if' series that is coming out in the summer - each of those being a different multiverse.

They might shoe horn something different for Spiderman but I feel many are going to be extremely upset about how that plays out - too many hopes have been built up from a few rumours.

Id rather them kill Fox's creations. Im happy for nods in Deadpoole and the nod in Wandavison to QS, but they should kill it.

Fox was all over the place after the Last Stand.

From Wolverines stand alone movies to the horrible Apocalypse and Dark Phoenix movies, Id rathe they reboot with new actors in 5 or 6 years time.

pixelburp · 11-03-2021 06:21PM

Jesus, after 3 episodes of gimmickry, episode 4 felt like full on tonal whiplash; probably not helped by it coming across like a generic MCU production, drab colour grading n all. I mean, the premise revealed itself but even so, you look at Legion, which managed to keep a similar vibe in both the real world and David's. There was a madness across the board.

I dunno. I'm just not buying into this. and Not just with this show but the MCU as a whole right. now. I never cared for Wanda, Vision or anyone in SWORD so was not a good starting point for me. I had suspected my appetite for the MCU had hit a natural end around EndGame, especially as I looked at the replacement Avengers; and yeah, Wandavision is confirming this suspicion.

The Phantom Pain · 12-03-2021 03:49AM

FunLover18 wrote: »

Leaving aside the fact that they can and they did, why can't they?

What I maybe should have added was they can't introduce Fietro knowing full well that we know about the upcoming multi verse which involves Wanda herself and then be surprised at some of the backlash to the fakeout. All the other theories that weren't followed up on can be forgiven because a few easter eggs in an episode does not mean anything but they played on our knowledge of Fox's (terrible) X Men universe to drive hype for that reveal. They knew exactly what they were doing. That is my one criticism of the show. That and the last 2 episodes being too short. Everything else was brilliant and it is the best show I've enjoyed in years.

FunLover18 · 12-03-2021 01:38PM

The Phantom Pain wrote: »

What I maybe should have added was they can't introduce Fietro knowing full well that we know about the upcoming multi verse which involves Wanda herself and then be surprised at some of the backlash to the fakeout. All the other theories that weren't followed up on can be forgiven because a few easter eggs in an episode does not mean anything but they played on our knowledge of Fox's (terrible) X Men universe to drive hype for that reveal. They knew exactly what they were doing. That is my one criticism of the show. That and the last 2 episodes being too short. Everything else was brilliant and it is the best show I've enjoyed in years.

But if you think Fox's X-Men universe is terrible why would you even want it crossing over with the MCU. Personally I was relieved because I feel the same about the X-Men universe, it would a mess because to acknowledge it as a universe you'd have to acknowledge the mess of a continuity.

Kermit.de.frog · 12-03-2021 01:55PM

pixelburp wrote: »

Jesus, after 3 episodes of gimmickry, episode 4 felt like full on tonal whiplash; probably not helped by it coming across like a generic MCU production, drab colour grading n all. I mean, the premise revealed itself but even so, you look at Legion, which managed to keep a similar vibe in both the real world and David's. There was a madness across the board.

I dunno. I'm just not buying into this. and Not just with this show but the MCU as a whole right. now. I never cared for Wanda, Vision or anyone in SWORD so was not a good starting point for me. I had suspected my appetite for the MCU had hit a natural end around EndGame, especially as I looked at the replacement Avengers; and yeah, Wandavision is confirming this suspicion.

Have to agree on the colour in MCU productions. They all seem to have this sheen of grey on top which is not needed and they'd all look much better with sharper colour tone.

I'm perplexed why they persist with it.

There is a youtube vid somewhere that deals with this and compares Marvel movies with current tone alongside sharper tone clips of the same movies and it looks so much better.

The Phantom Pain · 12-03-2021 01:55PM

FunLover18 wrote: »

But if you think Fox's X-Men universe is terrible why would you even want it crossing over with the MCU. Personally I was relieved because I feel the same about the X-Men universe, it would a mess because to acknowledge it as a universe you'd have to acknowledge the mess of a continuity.

1) Because it's a multi-verse so by definition it does not directly break the canon of Disney's MCU.
2) It's just Quicksilver who is relevant to Wanda's story (along with Magneto). As long as it didn't go beyond that it was fine.

The point is that regardless of how I or anyone feels about Fox's X Men, Marvel knew exactly what they were doing so they should not be surprised that people interpreted that cameo as being something more.

The Phantom Pain · 12-03-2021 01:57PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Have to agree on the colour in MCU productions. They all seem to have this sheen of grey on top which is not needed and they'd all look much better with sharper colour tone.

I'm perplexed why they persist with it.

There is a youtube vid somewhere that deals with this and compares Marvel movies with current tone alongside sharper tone clips of the same movies and it looks so much better.

The colour issue is partly because they largely shoot digitally. I'm partial to film.

FunLover18 · 12-03-2021 02:44PM

The Phantom Pain wrote: »

1) Because it's a multi-verse so by definition it does not directly break the canon of Disney's MCU.
2) It's just Quicksilver who is relevant to Wanda's story (along with Magneto). As long as it didn't go beyond that it was fine.

The point is that regardless of how I or anyone feels about Fox's X Men, Marvel knew exactly what they were doing so they should not be surprised that people interpreted that cameo as being something more.

Again though this narrative that Marvel knew what they were doing, it paints a picture of Marvel as some Mr Burns type character twiggling his fingers and saying "excellent" as he watches people get upset by this (EDIT: I should say this is what I picture when people say something like that). As you said, it was you and others who interpreted it as something more and it seems like you interpreted it as done-deal mulitverse shenanigans which was never promised.

I know you said you enjoyed the show overall though, do you think on rewatch your frustrations with it might ease?

The Phantom Pain · 12-03-2021 03:50PM

FunLover18 wrote: »

Again though this narrative that Marvel knew what they were doing, it paints a picture of Marvel as some Mr Burns type character twiggling his fingers and saying "excellent" as he watches people get upset by this (EDIT: I should say this is what I picture when people say something like that). As you said, it was you and others who interpreted it as something more and it seems like you interpreted it as done-deal mulitverse shenanigans which was never promised.

I know you said you enjoyed the show overall though, do you think on rewatch your frustrations with it might ease?

I don't think that's what anyone is implying at all. Simply that Marvel knew how their audience would receive it knowing full well a multi-verse is coming that involves Wanda and used that so they could draw interest to the story they actually wanted to tell which is one of grief.

I'm not "frustrated" with it; it's just that I'm able to see where people are coming from and I do regard the Fietro as a mistake. It doesn't ruin my overall love of the show or the MCU. Enjoying a show does not mean pretending it's perfect. Marvel is capable of making mistakes, as rare as it is.

Foxtrol · 12-03-2021 03:58PM

The Phantom Pain wrote: »

What I maybe should have added was they can't introduce Fietro knowing full well that we know about the upcoming multi verse which involves Wanda herself and then be surprised at some of the backlash to the fakeout. All the other theories that weren't followed up on can be forgiven because a few easter eggs in an episode does not mean anything but they played on our knowledge of Fox's (terrible) X Men universe to drive hype for that reveal. They knew exactly what they were doing. That is my one criticism of the show. That and the last 2 episodes being too short. Everything else was brilliant and it is the best show I've enjoyed in years.

I still can't wrap my head about why people feel they are justified to 'backlash' at this. TV and movies would be incredibly boring if there weren't curveballs, bait and switches, red herrings, and whatever other phrase you want to use to describe the audience being tricked.

I disagreed with the response to the Mandarin but at least understood some elements of it - as it potentially deprived them of ever seeing that character properly on the screen. In this situation, we saw two versions of Quicksilver over the last few years, across 3 movies. Add to that, many of these same fans who are 'backlashing' agree that the Fox universe should be put to bed and Quicksilver is too powerful of a character for many stories.

We all have theories that end up being wrong or times we believe it would have been better if writers had gone our preferred direction. There is huge difference between noting this dissatisfaction and clear anger and entitlement from certain fans regarding not getting their way.

beakerjoe · 12-03-2021 05:33PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

I still can't wrap my head about why people feel they are justified to 'backlash' at this. TV and movies would be incredibly boring if there weren't curveballs, bait and switches, red herrings, and whatever other phrase you want to use to describe the audience being tricked.

I disagreed with the response to the Mandarin but at least understood some elements of it - as it potentially deprived them of ever seeing that character properly on the screen. In this situation, we saw two versions of Quicksilver over the last few years, across 3 movies. Add to that, many of these same fans who are 'backlashing' agree that the Fox universe should be put to bed and Quicksilver is too powerful of a character for many stories.

We all have theories that end up being wrong or times we believe it would have been better if writers had gone our preferred direction. There is huge difference between noting this dissatisfaction and clear anger and entitlement from certain fans regarding not getting their way.

I loved the Manderin bait and switch personally. So what if it wasnt the real character, it was a cute swerve and one that kept me guessing.

flazio · 12-03-2021 06:31PM

Watching the making of.
Amazed that they made Visions head a CG effect. I thought they would have made a physical helmet for Paul Bettany to wear.

WandaVision - Disney+ (***Spoilers***)

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WandaVision - Disney+ (Spoilers)