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Has anyone invested in an EII project/scheme?

1356

Comments

  • #102
    Nermal
    Registered Users Posts: 2,726 ✭✭✭Nermal


    Jim2007 wrote: »
    The OP said 12% not PA.....

    Fair enough - but don't forget, an EIIS investor now gets their full 40% tax relief at the end of year one.

    Whatever alternative five-year investment you propose for your €100, I can put €40 in for four of those years.

    If the EIIS scheme returns 12% total, your alternative ETF needs to return 115%, just to match it, and I'm not counting CGT allowance in there, by the way. It's a big ask.


  • #103
    Cute Hoor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,788 ✭✭✭Cute Hoor


    Nermal wrote: »
    Whatever alternative five-year investment you propose for your €100, I can put €40 in for four of those years.

    This is the key comment I think, you have that €40 guaranteed pretty much immediately to spend/invest as you wish, while the rest matures away in those sweet smelling casks/vats.


  • #104
    alanceltic
    Registered Users Posts: 790 ✭✭✭alanceltic


    The calculations above are missing the point that the 40% return is front loaded.

    Even if the overall return is 12% for the 4 year period it yields an impressive 86% overall return because you should be deducting to 40% off the initial investment rather than adding it to the final returns!

    Holds up very impressively against the current irrational market on a good day... How do you think this will compare against future markets returns. I'm no Mystic Meg but the risk reward is hard to ignore in any language.


  • #105
    Cute Hoor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,788 ✭✭✭Cute Hoor


    Obviously there is risk (significant in some cases) when investing in an EIIS business, risk of course with any investment. A Davy/BDO EIIS fund invested €2.5m in Nephin Irish Whiskey in 2019. I think Nephin had raised EIIS funding previously as well. According to a report in today's SBP Nephin is now bedevilled by internal wrangling, with a director resigning last week, AGM delayed, and when AGM eventually held a crucial vote on the composition of the 5 member board will feature, if carried it would mean that board members cannot be married to each other. To date no whiskey has been distilled and it is a year behind schedule. Hopefully everything works out fine in the end but not what an investor would want to be seeing/hearing.


  • #106
    Philbert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 358 ✭✭Philbert


    alanceltic wrote: »
    The calculations above are missing the point that the 40% return is front loaded.

    Even if the overall return is 12% for the 4 year period it yields an impressive 86% overall return because you should be deducting to 40% off the initial investment rather than adding it to the final returns!

    Exactly, and I think most people, including some accountants(!) I have worked with seem to miss this point. Even if you were to just get your capital back on a €10k investment the rate of return is actually 67%, not 40%.

    How so? The cost of your investment is not €10k, it is €6k. You take €10k out of your bank account, and the Revenue simply put €4k back in, leaving €6k at risk. For this investment of €6k you are getting €10k back a few years later (assuming no premium) which reflects a ROI of 67% and furthermore none of the return is subject to any CGT.

    Of course most EIIS schemes offer more than your money back, which is subject to CGT. And all EIIS investments carry risk, some more than others.
    alanceltic wrote: »
    Holds up very impressively against the current irrational market on a good day... How do you think this will compare against future markets returns. I'm no Mystic Meg but the risk reward is hard to ignore in any language.
    Agreed. Full disclosure; my company is running an EIIS scheme this year, having successfully returned a BES scheme (EIIS predecessor) in the past. PM me with your contact details for anyone interested and I'll send you details when its ready.


  • #107
    Valhallapt
    Registered Users Posts: 1,226 ✭✭✭Valhallapt


    I have had some good gains from the stock market this year. I need to liquidate them as I am raising funding for my new startup. My startup qualifies as an EII company, can I invest my own money via EII and offset a CGT bill on the gains from the stock market?


  • #108
    Philbert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 358 ✭✭Philbert


    Valhallapt wrote: »
    I have had some good gains from the stock market this year. I need to liquidate them as I am raising funding for my new startup. My startup qualifies as an EII company, can I invest my own money via EII and offset a CGT bill on the gains from the stock market?
    No, not through EII. But if you are leaving PAYE employment to start a new company then SURE might apply. Note that there are 98 pages of T's & C's so make sure to read them all ;).


  • #109
    Valhallapt
    Registered Users Posts: 1,226 ✭✭✭Valhallapt


    Philbert wrote: »
    No, not through EII. But if you are leaving PAYE employment to start a new company then SURE might apply. Note that there are 98 pages of T's & C's so make sure to read them all ;).

    I'm not PAYE, so I guess I can't back myself, but a stranger can!


  • #110
    Water John
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,808 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Not sure but any income tax paid over the last 3 years can be clawed back in some way TMK as part of a start up. Not sure it has to be PAYE.

    Another possible source of funds is Leader in rural areas. Think the rate is going up in April. Scratching the back of my brain for some of these possible options. Be sure to chat to your Local Enterprise Board.


  • #111
    Valhallapt
    Registered Users Posts: 1,226 ✭✭✭Valhallapt


    Water John wrote: »
    Not sure but any income tax paid over the last 3 years can be clawed back in some way TMK as part of a start up. Not sure it has to be PAYE.

    Another possible source of funds is Leader in rural areas. Think the rate is going up in April. Scratching the back of my brain for some of these possible options. Be sure to chat to your Local Enterprise Board.

    Unfortunately SURE is explicitly PAYE only.


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  • #112
    caviardreams
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,700 ✭✭✭caviardreams


    EIIS Cloud Migration opportunity on page 4 of the Business Post today - advertised via Kevin Canning in Quintas.ie


  • #113
    One More Toy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,860 ✭✭✭One More Toy


    caviardreams wrote: »
    EIIS Cloud Migration opportunity on page 4 of the Business Post today - advertised via Kevin Canning in Quintas.ie

    Can't see it on the website anywhere?


  • #114
    Cute Hoor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,788 ✭✭✭Cute Hoor


    One More Toy wrote: »
    Can't see it on the website anywhere?

    According to SBP
    For further details contact: kevin.canning@quintas.ie


  • #115
    Ush1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,479 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    Threw a few bob into Kinsale Spirits. I'll let you know how it goes.


  • #116
    Darc19
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭Darc19


    Jim2007 wrote: »
    The annualized return on the S&P 500 over the same period was about 14.5% and the total return was 96%.


    If you want to invest in a distillery that is one thing. But if you want to accumulate wealth, it was a lousy scheme in which you took on significantly more risk than required and achieved a poor rate of return in doing so.


    People need to track and benchmark performance to know how they are doing.
    Don't forget to factor in exchange rates too. Us dollar was $1.05-$1.10 for much of latter half of 2016. It's close to $1.20 now, so deduct about 12% from your overall s&p returns for the euro value


  • #117
    Officer Giggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,679 ✭✭✭Officer Giggles


    Ush1 wrote: »
    Threw a few bob into Kinsale Spirits. I'll let you know how it goes.

    Do you have to buy through a third party or how does it work. Wasn't clear from what I seen on Google. Thanks


  • #118
    Ush1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,479 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    Officer Giggles wrote: »
    Do you have to buy through a third party or how does it work. Wasn't clear from what I seen on Google. Thanks

    I went through a broker, Alpha Wealth in Cork. They charge a 3 percent on the investment fee. Fund transfer directly into Kinsales account though.


  • #119
    Officer Giggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,679 ✭✭✭Officer Giggles


    Ush1 wrote: »
    I went through a broker, Alpha Wealth in Cork. They charge a 3 percent on the investment fee. Fund transfer directly into Kinsales account though.

    They were the only company that came back for Kinsale when I looked on Google alright. Thanks.


  • #120
    rebelle
    Registered Users Posts: 271 ✭✭rebelle


    Ush1 wrote: »
    I went through a broker, Alpha Wealth in Cork. They charge a 3 percent on the investment fee. Fund transfer directly into Kinsales account though.
    Officer Giggles wrote: »
    They were the only company that came back for Kinsale when I looked on Google alright. Thanks.

    I also went through Alpha Wealth to invest in an EIIS last year.


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  • #121
    rocketspocket
    Registered Users Posts: 402 ✭✭rocketspocket


    Any talk as to when you will get the tax certs from kinsale?


  • #122
    caviardreams
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,700 ✭✭✭caviardreams


    See an interesting opportunity with Zipp mobility scooters on spark funding - anyone fancy it?

    https://www.sparkcrowdfunding.com/campaign/zippmobility


  • #123
    Philbert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 358 ✭✭Philbert


    caviardreams wrote: »
    See an interesting opportunity with Zipp mobility scooters on spark funding - anyone fancy it?

    https://www.sparkcrowdfunding.com/campaign/zippmobility
    Good that the return on their EIIS shares are uncapped (same as my company, PM for details) with an indicative return of 10-12x. Honestly, anyone investing in EIIS nowadays should not invest in a company where your return is capped, which is typical of the vast majority of EIIS schemes (whiskey, forests and the like). Capping EIIS returns at €1.10-€1.20 on the €1 is what the vast majority of them do. But why? Why does Enterprise Ireland and VC's get ordinary uncapped shares yet EIIS investors get stiffed with capped shares at a fraction of the potential returns? You're carrying the same risk of loss, even taking account of the tax relief. Never understood it myself.

    Forgive the side rant! Like any other investment do your due diligence, and go for it if it's something that interests you, and money you can afford to lose.


  • #124
    Valhallapt
    Registered Users Posts: 1,226 ✭✭✭Valhallapt


    Philbert wrote: »
    Good that the return on their EIIS shares are uncapped (same as my company, PM for details) with an indicative return of 10-12x. Honestly, anyone investing in EIIS nowadays should not invest in a company where your return is capped, which is typical of the vast majority of EIIS schemes (whiskey, forests and the like). Capping EIIS returns at €1.10-€1.20 on the €1 is what the vast majority of them do. But why? Why does Enterprise Ireland and VC's get ordinary uncapped shares yet EIIS investors get stiffed with capped shares at a fraction of the potential returns? You're carrying the same risk of loss, even taking account of the tax relief. Never understood it myself.

    Forgive the side rant! Like any other investment do your due diligence, and go for it if it's something that interests you, and money you can afford to lose.

    Most of the EIIS funds are competing against VC money. Capping them makes them far more attractive to startups. Essentially become a form of debt, prevents dilution


  • #125
    caviardreams
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,700 ✭✭✭caviardreams


    Quite a few opportunities listed on spark crowdfunding - worth registering for the newsletter/an account for anyone interested

    Bowsy
    Pipit Global
    Zipp mobility
    ASX (paddy power backed) - fully funded now I think
    Fit Pink Leisure wear

    They hold webinars etc. too for some companies. I see Spark take 7% of the amount raised as their fee (+ transaction fees of up to 2.8%) - seems steep to me!


  • #126
    One More Toy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,860 ✭✭✭One More Toy


    caviardreams wrote: »
    Quite a few opportunities listed on spark crowdfunding - worth registering for the newsletter/an account for anyone interested

    Bowsy
    Pipit Global
    Zipp mobility
    ASX (paddy power backed) - fully funded now I think
    Fit Pink Leisure wear

    They hold webinars etc. too for some companies. I see Spark take 7% of the amount raised as their fee (+ transaction fees of up to 2.8%) - seems steep to me!

    Admittedly I never heard of them, are the companies EII eligible?


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  • #127
    caviardreams
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,700 ✭✭✭caviardreams


    One More Toy wrote: »
    Admittedly I never heard of them, are the companies EII eligible?

    Yes that's why I posted them in the thread! :pac:


  • #128
    One More Toy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,860 ✭✭✭One More Toy


    caviardreams wrote: »
    Yes that's why I posted them in the thread! :pac:

    Haha cheers just double checking! They look for sign up before you can really view anything


  • #129
    caviardreams
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,700 ✭✭✭caviardreams


    One More Toy wrote: »
    Haha cheers just double checking! They look for sign up before you can really view anything

    It says EIIS in the top right of each box / each listing on the home page where applicable so you can see which companies it applies to before registering.


  • #130
    One More Toy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,860 ✭✭✭One More Toy


    Out of curiosity, for SAFE investments, when do you qualify for EII?

    The answer is probably in the documentation but I haven't signed up to Spark yet


  • #131
    One More Toy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,860 ✭✭✭One More Toy


    I have since dipped my toes into ASX and Pipit, my first EII outing however I won't see the tax benefit until the year after next due to it being SAFE

    Looking forward to seeing how this pans out, especially ASX


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  • #132
    One More Toy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,860 ✭✭✭One More Toy


    Can't find the answer to this - can you claim cgt losses on eii investments?


  • #133
    sector_000
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 452 ✭✭sector_000


    One More Toy wrote: »
    Can't find the answer to this - can you claim cgt losses on eii investments?

    AFAIK - no :(


  • #134
    One More Toy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,860 ✭✭✭One More Toy


    sector_000 wrote: »
    AFAIK - no :(

    I thought as much from previous posts. Can't find anything definitive however


  • #135
    Curious Geroge
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,016 ✭✭✭Curious Geroge


    Invested for the first time in Dec 2020. I'm paye but also do end of year for small family business. Can I claim back the 40% now or do I wait till I do end of year returns for 2020 ?


  • #136
    caviardreams
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,700 ✭✭✭caviardreams


    Velo coffee adverting in the Business Post today for the EII Scheme. eiis@velocoffee.ie


  • #137
    One More Toy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,860 ✭✭✭One More Toy


    Well I've dipped in a few euro into EII eligible companies via Spark. Been a few weeks now since they closed, do you get a certificate or anything to confirm its EII eligible? Just in case the tax man looks for proof



  • #138
    One More Toy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,860 ✭✭✭One More Toy


    Spark website is down for me? Odd...



  • #139
    Gangu
    Registered Users Posts: 413 ✭✭Gangu


    Is Spark the only place people find these schemes? It would be great to find one or two to invest in sometime in the coming months.



  • #140
    rocketspocket
    Registered Users Posts: 402 ✭✭rocketspocket


    Hoping someone may know the answer to this.

    I invested in the 2020 BVP EII fund and am now preparing the 2020 tax return for the 31 oct deadline- the tax certificates have yet to be issued. Does anyone know if;

    • I can just go ahead and get the refund without the Tax Certificates?
    • If not, will I need to tell Revenue in my 2020 return that I've invested in an EII scheme and the amount I've invested?
    • if So & when I do get the tax certs in 2022- is the tax refund from Revenue a seamless process?

    I’ll be discussing this with my accountant  but hoping to have these answers before I do! Thanks.



  • #141
    rocketspocket
    Registered Users Posts: 402 ✭✭rocketspocket


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117804561#Comment_117804561

    Davey & BVP have fund that split the money across different companies - they normally only open these in november/december..



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  • #142
    caviardreams
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,700 ✭✭✭caviardreams


    Business post supplement on EIIS will be in November - call for advertising was in last week's paper

    Am I right that the coupon on shares is taxed at your marginal income tax rate (e.g. 40%) rather than capital gains tax (33%)?



  • #143
    One More Toy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,860 ✭✭✭One More Toy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117946819#Comment_117946819

    Did it say the date of publication?



  • #144
    caviardreams
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,700 ✭✭✭caviardreams


    Medpoint advertising in the Business Post last Sunday - details of their EIIS here

    https://medpoint.ie/eiis/



  • #145
    Ush1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,479 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/116578377#Comment_116578377

    Won't be until next year I believe.



  • #146
    One More Toy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,860 ✭✭✭One More Toy


    Scheme extended another 3 years in today's budget



  • #147
    caviardreams
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,700 ✭✭✭caviardreams



    Thinking of investing again with a company I previously invested in. They are offering a 10% term equity option (pro rata) to current investors should there be a sale within the current round of the EII scheme. Not sure what this means to be honest - is it that if they sell to another company, then EIIS investors will share (pro rata) 10% of the sale value?



  • #148
    Jambonjunior
    Registered Users Posts: 299 ✭✭Jambonjunior


    I missed the sunday business post segment. Is there any other ways to find out about schemes?



  • #149
    Nermal
    Registered Users Posts: 2,726 ✭✭✭Nermal


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117826017#Comment_117826017

    Did you get an answer on this? In exactly the same position as yourself.



  • #150
    One More Toy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,860 ✭✭✭One More Toy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118076956#Comment_118076956

    Not out until November, tried to find out which week but to no avail


    You can also look at the Spark Crowdfunding website for eii opportunities



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  • #151
    One More Toy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,860 ✭✭✭One More Toy


    Don't suppose anyone knows if tomorrow's BP is the eii issue?



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