M50 thread

Stark · 11-09-2020 11:51am

Wasn't it €10 when the tunnel opened? Obviously hasn't kept up with inflation. I remember thinking "holy god, that's extortionate" when it opened but now I'd probably be happy to pay it on the few occasions I need to head that direction rather than deal with city centre traffic.

Similar issues with London congestion charge. Worked when first introduced but didn't increase with inflation so it's not very effective in recent times.

blackwhite · 11-09-2020 3:45pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

Does not seem to be working at the moment as AA Roadwatch on Morning Ireland said they were metering southbound traffic into the tunnel today because of congestion. I think that this can only mean commuter cars.

The congestion is East Wall Rd traffic turning right towards the Tom Clarke Bridge, and congestion back from the roundabout there - as well as freight traffic leaving the P&O terminal opposite the Gibson hotel

The southbound port tunnel traffic emerges from the toll at the East Wall Rd junction, and has nowhere to go.

I commute from the Southside to that part of the city regularly, and it’s not Tunnel traffic causing the congestion.

Either way - imagine how much more traffic there would be for the tunnel if the toll was €3/4 at rush hour

blackwhite · 11-09-2020 3:46pm

Stark wrote: »

Wasn't it €10 when the tunnel opened? Obviously hasn't kept up with inflation. I remember thinking "holy god, that's extortionate" when it opened but now I'd probably be happy to pay it on the few occasions I need to head that direction rather than deal with city centre traffic.

Similar issues with London congestion charge. Worked when first introduced but didn't increase with inflation so it's not very effective in recent times.

It was actually €12 initially - but dropped to €10 fairly quickly when they saw volumes were even lower than they’d planned for

Sam Russell · 11-09-2020 3:53pm

blackwhite wrote: »

The congestion is East Wall Rd traffic turning right towards the Tom Clarke Bridge, and congestion back from the roundabout there - as well as freight traffic leaving the P&O terminal opposite the Gibson hotel

The southbound port tunnel traffic emerges from the toll at the East Wall Rd junction, and has nowhere to go.

I commute from the Southside to that part of the city regularly, and it’s not Tunnel traffic causing the congestion.

Either way - imagine how much more traffic there would be for the tunnel if the toll was €3/4 at rush hour

Actually, you are probably correct.

I was on an Aircoach last year (Covid lockdown keeps me off Aircoach) and on leaving the Tunnel toll, we were kept for about 15 mins while a continuous queue of cars and truck block the road as they left the docks on their way to the East Wall Road, and simply blocked the road. When one lot cleared, they were immediately replaced by another lot. The lights favoured them and not us.

Appalling light sequences.

[As an aside, the current traffic light sequences in Dublin is nuts - going green for 20 seconds - not enough time for some motorists at the head of the queue to finish up their whatsap session and put their phone down].

blackwhite · 11-09-2020 4:38pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

Actually, you are probably correct.

I was on an Aircoach last year (Covid lockdown keeps me off Aircoach) and on leaving the Tunnel toll, we were kept for about 15 mins while a continuous queue of cars and truck block the road as they left the docks on their way to the East Wall Road, and simply blocked the road. When one lot cleared, they were immediately replaced by another lot. The lights favoured them and not us.

Appalling light sequences.

[As an aside, the current traffic light sequences in Dublin is nuts - going green for 20 seconds - not enough time for some motorists at the head of the queue to finish up their whatsap session and put their phone down].

The traffic around there all stems from the Tom Clarke bridge roundabout. Causes everything to get backed up.
Add in the P&O exit out into traffic, and then Irish Rail taking a slow moving freight train across at 8.55 3 days a week and it becomes a nightmare

Sam Russell · 11-09-2020 4:52pm

blackwhite wrote: »

The traffic around there all stems from the Tom Clarke bridge roundabout. Causes everything to get backed up.
Add in the P&O exit out into traffic, and then Irish Rail taking a slow moving freight train across at 8.55 3 days a week and it becomes a nightmare

It was Holyhead ferry traffic that caused my delay. It does not help that the two ferry companies land their ferries within 30 minutes of each other, and the competition to leave the port causes jams allover the place.

Chris_5339762 · 14-09-2020 9:14pm

And in my opinion, all ferry cars should get a free port tunnel run (time limited to say 1hr after ferry to avoid hoarding) to keep all of them out of the city center.

14-09-2020 9:35pm

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

And in my opinion, all ferry cars should get a free port tunnel run (time limited to say 1hr after ferry to avoid hoarding) to keep all of them out of the city centre.

Realistically, that would only work if the ferry operators printed something (QR code) on the tickets that could be scanned at the booth.

BonnieSituation · 14-09-2020 9:37pm

That being said, it still amazes me just how bad the quays used to be.

marno21 · 01-12-2020 12:30am

Variable speed limit legislation heading to the Dail next month

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/variable-speed-limits-and-new-cameras-set-to-make-m50-safer-7jrhx7mkw

Speed limits on the M50 to vary between 40km/h and 100km/h.

JohnC. · 28-04-2021 1:31pm

Irish Times piece about variable speed limits

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/dublin-s-m50-to-get-overhaul-with-overhead-gantries-and-variable-speed-limits-1.4549867

98 gantries. Publicity campaign to launch in late June or July to tell people how it works.

punisher5112 · 28-04-2021 1:41pm

So that's what them new wind turbine units are for.

loyatemu · 28-04-2021 2:29pm

even if it does increase the throughput of the M50 the extra capacity will be soaked up in no time.

veryangryman · 28-04-2021 4:12pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Realistically, that would only work if the ferry operators printed something (QR code) on the tickets that could be scanned at the booth.

Every Ferry journey would have an extra tenner magically added to its fare

28-04-2021 5:51pm

veryangryman wrote: »

Every Ferry journey would have an extra tenner magically added to its fare

Wow!
That reply was so late I had to go back and read the original piece in the thread. :pac:

Chris_5339762 · 28-04-2021 8:45pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Wow!
That reply was so late I had to go back and read the original piece in the thread. :pac:

I still think my idea is a good one

kravmaga · 28-04-2021 8:53pm

JohnC. wrote: »

Irish Times piece about variable speed limits

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/dublin-s-m50-to-get-overhaul-with-overhead-gantries-and-variable-speed-limits-1.4549867

98 gantries. Publicity campaign to launch in late June or July to tell people how it works.

This makes sense, the M25 Outer London orbital Motorway has had variable speed limits since the early 2000, especially the stretch beside Heathrow airport.

They also have speed limit cameras for detection, I wonder will this also be incorporated into the M50 proposal

punisher5112 · 28-04-2021 9:14pm

kravmaga wrote: »

This makes sense, the M25 Outer London orbital Motorway has had variable speed limits since the early 2000, especially the stretch beside Heathrow airport.

They also have speed limit cameras for detection, I wonder will this also be incorporated into the M50 proposal

For it to actually work it would be needed....

I don't want them but it's inevitable

Pete_Cavan · 28-04-2021 9:16pm

Without average speed cameras enforcing the variable limits, I foresee this making the M50 more dangerous as many drivers will ignore lower limits and drive aggressively towards those adhering to them.

NickNickleby · 28-04-2021 9:47pm

I watched a piece on TV about variable speed limits and the logic was very well explained. I think it was Top Gear (when it was still about cars :pac:). How often have we seen traffic at a standstill, with no accident or roadworks to explain it?

The only thing that surprised me in the report, was that a Dáil Committee wants to see the control centre 'in the flesh' . Maybe they're experts in queueing theory.

As far as I'm concerned, its a great idea (the gantries, not the committee day out

)

28-04-2021 9:51pm

What's the argument for strictly controlling speed on the M50? I mean, and this is complete guesswork, but it's probably the busiest, yet arguably safest, road in the country (in terms of the death to user ratio)?

28-04-2021 9:53pm

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Without average speed cameras enforcing the variable limits, I foresee this making the M50 more dangerous as many drivers will ignore lower limits and drive aggressively towards those adhering to them.

This will be exactly how it’ll end up.

punisher5112 · 28-04-2021 9:55pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What's the argument for strictly controlling speed on the M50? I mean, and this is complete guesswork, but it's probably the busiest, yet arguably safest, road in the country (in terms of the death to user ratio)?

It's to actually slow traffic down so in theory it will ease the amount of traffic at the exits at any given time, longer takes to get there the plan is less sitting waiting for light changes....

I can only see more use the M50 from now on with the absolute shambles of any roads in Dublin with all these new kerbs, poles, one way systems, cycle lanes etc.....

It's really going to be a pain trying to commute when it goes back to normal.

28-04-2021 9:56pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What's the argument for strictly controlling speed on the M50? I mean, and this is complete guesswork, but it's probably the busiest, yet arguably safest, road in the country (in terms of the death to user ratio)?

Because it leads to better traffic flow overall.

NickNickleby · 28-04-2021 9:56pm

Deleted User wrote: »

What's the argument for strictly controlling speed on the M50? I mean, and this is complete guesswork, but it's probably the busiest, yet arguably safest, road in the country (in terms of the death to user ratio)?

Its about getting people to slow down IF there's potential for a blockage ahead. Prevents them adding to the blockage, and so on, back down the line.

28-04-2021 9:57pm

Deleted User wrote: »

What's the argument for strictly controlling speed on the M50? I mean, and this is complete guesswork, but it's probably the busiest, yet arguably safest, road in the country (in terms of the death to user ratio)?

It's more to do with congestion control, as mentioned earlier, it prevents the stop-start glug glug of traffic when flow exceeds capacity.
Reduce the flow slightly and you prevent the glug glug from starting in the first place.
Here is a simple experiment that displays the concept perfectly.
Get a bottle, fill it with water and try to see how fast you can empty it!
If you tip it too steeply it will glug and the flow stutters, but keep it below the critical angle and it will empty quicker.

NickNickleby · 28-04-2021 10:02pm

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Without average speed cameras enforcing the variable limits, I foresee this making the M50 more dangerous as many drivers will ignore lower limits and drive aggressively towards those adhering to them.

This behaviour is precisely what causes those phantom 'road blockages'. First driver slams on to match speed with driver in front, multiply this backwards often enough and the last driver is actually having to stop. Therefore everyone behind that stopped driver will have to stop as well. So, if a traffic light made the drivers entering the M50 slow down BEFORE they reach the blockage, they won't add to it, and if the speed is correctly set (and adhered to) the blockage will have miraculously disappeared by the time they get there.

arccosh · 28-04-2021 10:13pm

I wonder if the hard shoulder is on the chopping block next, like they are on UK roads

28-04-2021 10:20pm

arccosh wrote: »

I wonder if the hard shoulder is on the chopping block next, like they are on UK roads

I doubt it, the hard shoulder is not continuous as it is now, turning it into an AUX AUX lane is a non runner without extensive engineering, the variable speed limits will create more "virtual space" than an extra lane.

punisher5112 · 28-04-2021 10:21pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I doubt it, the hard shoulder is not continuous as it is now, turning it into an AUX AUX lane is a non runner without extensive engineering, the variable speed limits will create more "virtual space" than an extra lane.

Very true, it would be an absolute nightmare and back to 2 lanes while they would carry out works.

4 lanes it should have been but space just isn't there, stilts are definitely an option but I could never ever see it happening.

M50 thread

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