Canelo V BJ Saunders - Texas - DAZN - May 8th

volono wrote: »

Posters giving examples of others that have fought on with the same type, although unsure of severity of injuries as Saunders like it justifies keeping this "quitting" angle up. I say those boxers are the idiots, to keep fighting , risking permanent eye injury, blindness. Its beyond idiotic imo.
I remember Danny Williams v (name escapes me). He dislocated his shoulder , so was basically half disabled at that point and he still came out , fighting with one hand and got a stoppage, was amazing at the time tbf. That doesn't mean it was the right decision though imo.
As for Hands of Stone, It's been well documented what went on, there's a myriad of reasons why that fight ended the way it did.

They’re not idiots for fighting on with injuries..

You’re making it out that these boxers know what exact damage and injuries they have. That is not the case..

So, what: every time a boxer has some bruising or facial damage they should all retire, because it “might” be some serious injury?

It doesn’t work like that.

They’re not getting x rayed between rounds..

They have doctors there. If the doctor is called and says they are unfit to continue, so be it.

The boxers aren’t diagnosing. They’re too busy fighting.

A lot of fighters finish fights and win fights, some clearly, that then find out they have facial damage that needs hospital treatment..

Are they idiots for fighting on?

And even if a doctor steps in to say they are not to fight on and they protest, that does not make them idiots

These men give their lives to the toughest sport on earth, and in the heat of battle they are damn well entitled to protest anyone calling them to retire. So, some doctor (albeit doing his/her job and meaning well) telling a fighter they are done, and said fighter protesting this, is simply a dedicated warrior in the heat of battle not wanting to quit....they are not idiots, and it is very disrespectful to call them that for a judgment they are making while in a boxing match sitting in their corner, quite possibly fatigued/injured or whatever....most of them when they have time to reflect will know that the right call was made.

Morrison J wrote: »

Not fully true though is it. Plenty of fighters have fought on with the same injury in the past. They should be lauded more than the fighter who quits should be ridiculed though for sure.

Inoue the most recent guy to do it that comes to mind. Fought 10 rounds with a broken orbital bone and should have got a late stoppage against a P4P type puncher in Donaire. Shows how incredibly tough he is.

Course, plenty have and nothing happened (so far anyway) to them afterwards.

Plenty have and are now fcuked. Israel Vasquez had his eye taken out and has some serious health problems after all his wars. Margarito was never even close to the same fighter after the damage he took against Pacquiao. Those two are in the last 10 or so years too, we can all go back further and look at stuff like McClellan which is something no one should want to see in boxing.

yourdeadwright wrote: »

He also had his team urging him not to continue & explaining his eye socket was most likely broken

I must have missed this bit

I did not notice his team urging him NOT to continue

For that to happen, wouldn't he be urging himself to continue?

Was Billy not sitting blank and silent through the round break?

Tibbs then saying that from his body language and visuals he did not like what he was seeing, so he (Tibbs) decided to call it off. Billy was pretty much silent.

If Billy was showing his urge to continue then he did not quit....

I must have missed this....and if I did, I take it back about him quitting

walshb wrote: »

I must have missed this bit

I did not notice his team urging him NOT to continue

For that to happen, wouldn't he be urging himself to continue?

Was Billy not sitting blank and silent through the round break?

Tibbs then saying that from his body language and visuals he did not like what he was seeing, so he (Tibbs) decided to call it off. Billy was pretty much silent.

If Billy was showing his urge to continue then he did not quit....

I must have missed this....and if I did, I take it back about him quitting

No need to apologise, you didn't miss it, because he didn't protest the stoppage, he took it sitting down without as much as a whimper.

Makes your wonder if at the highest level does bjs look for a "way out".

Didn't he do something silly to get sent home from the Beijing Olympics, if im not mistaken? Maybe has a lack of self belief so takes a way out when it's presented...

Cyrus wrote: »

look at canelos reaction after the punch landed and his actions for the rest of the round and in the corner after the round, he knew the fight was over, because it was a serious injury.

Some picture

blade1 wrote: »

Some picture

absolutely

i have to say canelo is really letting his personality show now, his performance in the 8th, his post fight interviews and his dismissal of andrade was all excellent, the boy really is is box office.

walshb wrote: »

Ok,

But this has nothing got to do with my post about Billy and Tibbs' interaction in the corner....

Not sure why you quoted me here with your reply....

Anyway, over and out on Saunders...

I am delighted he was beaten. I never rated him highly at all.

Good neat mover and amateur style boxer, but never for me a good/great pro

A career fighting very ordinary opposition, and when met with the world class, was well beaten.

It was mentioned here about his stamina being n factor as well. He did look really jaded in round 8....

That from all the energy wasted trying to keep Canelo at bay for 7 rounds...

I still thought he did better than I expected. He nullified Canelo's work quite a bit.

Not sure where he goes now....He may not fight again after banking that type money...

While your right about his lack of power is still think Billy has a chance against anyone in the world at that weight not called Canelo,


I think he will call it a day its a very bad injury and will lead to a lengthy spell on the side lines . He might have one last fight to go out with a W but can't see him sticking around long term,

Cyrus wrote: »

Anyway he has come up one of the all time greats and come up short, like almost everyone else he has fought, does that mean BJS was useless? i dont think so. Maybe not quite as good as i thought he might be, but he is still a two weight world champion so if that doesnt qualify as a good pro and canelo is the bench mark that must be 99.9995% of boxers.

Nobody said he was useless. Far from it...did better than I thought. Main issue for him, that we all knew, was he had nothing on his shots to hurt or deter Canelo...For me he was never a great pro.....

Beat nobody world class, fought nobody world class......I don't rate his wins that highly

Best wins were over Eubank and Lemieux and Lee......just nothing that good really.

Canelo is on his own at SMW, which sadly, has nobody that good......look at the ratings.....Jon Ryder is considered a real challenger....

Some light reading

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zygomaticomaxillary_complex_fracture


Watching that move on slow motion is matrix level stuff , it’s like he had 10 mins to plan it and Canelo threw everything into that eye socket and on impact as he confirmed he felt the crunch and knew it was over

I see the Saunders camp are now saying that Saunders protested the fight being stopped by others, well I for one didn't see too much protestation from Saunders at the time and thought I saw him shaking his head a lot when he sat down in the corner.

walshb wrote: »

I guess there are a number ways to assess the fight and the boxers’ performances..

The fight kind reminded me of Frankie Gavin v Kell Brook

Frankie doing well boxing and moving and surviving, but always looking under the pressure, and completely unable to put any dent on Brook

Saunders was boxing, moving, holding, spoiling and doing his best to both be competitive and to survive

But as I said, his punches would be like gentle raindrops hitting Canelo..

Saunders used up a lot of energy in those 8 rds. He did a lot of work...

But it is 12 rds top class boxing against a elite Canelo..Canelo was landing the meaningful and stronger shots, as well as walking through Saunders’ shots with ease

No certainty what shot did the damage, but there is a clear and clean and impactful uppercut that Canelo lands rd 8 that likely did the damage, or mostly did. You can YouTube it and they show it in slo-mo

You could see near end rd 8 the distress in Saunders. Tired, jaded, hurt and with an opponent now clearly taking offensive control

Billy knew the game was up sitting down after round 8..

Ffs it was the upper cut that broke half his face in 4 or 5 places that ended the fight not Billy knowing the game was up or being tired. His best work was in the mid part of the fight , if his orbital bone wasn't broken he would have come out for the 9th the same way he came out for the 8th.

The narrative you are trying to create is in your head.

squinn2912 wrote: »

I just watched the fight once but did he not have his best rounds in 5 & 6? I thought he did well up until that big punch then he needed to survive the round. Canelo was on top I’m not saying otherwise but was it not more one significant strike that did the harm?

You are 100% correct.

There is only one person that will contradict you..... and he lives under a bridge.

walshb wrote: »

megadodge, for whatever reason seems to be very hostile towards me..

I can’t recall me and him ever having cross words. He is a longtime poster, but lately he seems to be going out of his way to target my posts, thank posts that challenge me etc..putting up threads and singling me out..

I haven’t at all bitten, because I find it a little awkward and odd..

It’s not like he is a casual blow-in. Long time poster that I have sparred with here, but a lot of it clean and healthy..

I’d prefer a PM if someone had an actual issue with me personally..

But for the life of me I cannot recall anything I would have done for any poster on this forum to go out of their way to single me out negatively..

I can disagree with nonsense without having a personal agenda surely?

Also stop making stuff up , what thread did I start that singled you out ever? Any issue with my posts please report them.

Cyrus wrote: »

I can disagree with nonsense without having a personal agenda surely?

It comes across as if you take it personally, with the FFs talk. And misquoting me, leaving out parts what I said. Tired, jaded, distressed and hurt...yet you just see tired...

Billy quit. You disagree.

Let’s move on.

We’ll await Aug 14....

walshb wrote: »

Eh, you need to read my post again..

It was nothing at all to do with you..

Sorry my mistake I apologise .

Billy made circa 1 million pounds per round I hear...

Hmm, nice money....

walshb wrote: »

megadodge, for whatever reason seems to be very hostile towards me..

I can’t recall me and him ever having cross words. He is a longtime poster, but lately he seems to be going out of his way to target my posts, thank posts that challenge me etc..putting up threads and singling me out..

I haven’t at all bitten, because I find it a little awkward and odd..

It’s not like he is a casual blow-in. Long time poster that I have sparred with here, but a lot of it clean and healthy..

I’d prefer a PM if someone had an actual issue with me personally..

But for the life of me I cannot recall anything I would have done for any poster on this forum to go out of their way to single me out negatively..

Welcome to the modern day internet "discussion". If someone disagrees with you they take it personal.

I disagree here with you as think Saunders would have continued had he not had his face smashed in. However agree that his shots were having little effect on Canelo.

SHOVELLER wrote: »

Welcome to the modern day internet "discussion". If someone disagrees with you they take it personal.

I disagree here with you as think Saunders would have continued had he not had his face smashed in. However agree that his shots were having little effect on Canelo.

Saunders made the decision to not answer the bell, I don't actually blame him as he was going to get stopped in the next round for sure you'd imagine. It was the smart thing to do, a good time to quit and save yourself more punishment. Won't get any criticism from me for that part of it, why I have an issue with Mr "Go out on your shield" is simply that. He is happy to put others down and make big claims about his heart and how he has no quit in him and he made that rod for his own back ultimately.

I remember (and he isn't the only example) Inoue v Donaire, Inoue had broken orbital bone (in round 2!), nose etc but he wouldn't quit. He wouldn't not get to his feet when that bell rang and he went out there and won the fight. If BJS had been in a position where he felt he could win that fight he would have pushed through the adversity and continued imo, he knew he was done - he didn't throw a punch after Canelo landed that upper, he made it to the bell. He assessed that he was ****ed and he called it a day with a few million in the back pocket. No problem.

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

Nothing sadder than the vacant look in the eyes of some boxing greats that got back up with horrific injuries and fought on

Bjs is smarter than people think

You could even go as far as saying he got some sense knocked into him.