Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

Leroy42 · 22-06-2021 05:44PM

I am not saying it is comparable to the smoking ban, my point is that from a headline POV it comes from the same place.

'We are helping everyone be healthier, helping those that need our help most. Sure its a pain, but its a small price to pay to save people form the worst effects of alcohol. Think of the children'.

senordingdong · 22-06-2021 07:17PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

I am not saying it is comparable to the smoking ban, my point is that from a headline POV it comes from the same place.

'We are helping everyone be healthier, helping those that need our help most. Sure its a pain, but its a small price to pay to save people form the worst effects of alcohol. Think of the children'.

I'm dying to know how many lives have been saved by erecting those pathetic saloon doors to the alcohol Isles.

listermint · 22-06-2021 07:25PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

I am not saying it is comparable to the smoking ban, my point is that from a headline POV it comes from the same place.

'We are helping everyone be healthier, helping those that need our help most. Sure its a pain, but its a small price to pay to save people form the worst effects of alcohol. Think of the children'.

But what the headlines don't say is

We have the most expensive price for alcohol in Europe. We don't have the most consumption.
Alcohol consumption has been on the slide since 2010 year on year.
Young people aren't drinking as much as their parents.
The price of premium drinks including craft is already impacted which much of the 2.50 stuff now priced at 3.00.
Premium price disparities is a thing.

Anyone that says any of the above isn't true needs to be examined for their motives.

Headlines are great in a fact that the grab attention but never tell the true story.

Suckit · 22-06-2021 07:27PM

senordingdong wrote: »

I'm dying to know how many lives have been saved by erecting those pathetic saloon doors to the alcohol Isles.

We won't know that for a while. Apparently the genius behind them is that little Timmy will see the doors, and have no idea what's behind them.
He will go through life until he is 18 before he is aware he can enter the never never, but by that stage, the message will have got through loud and clear. Sectioned off area = BAD.
He will never enter, nor ever want to drink.
Job done.

To be honest, I have no real problem with them, it just seems that the idea behind them is daft. MUP however, being introduced into a country with some of the most expensive alcohol prices in Europe, to curb drinking, is stupid. And it's illegal.

senordingdong · 23-06-2021 08:54AM

Suckit wrote: »

To be honest, I have no real problem with them, it just seems that the idea behind them is daft. MUP however, being introduced into a country with some of the most expensive alcohol prices in Europe, to curb drinking, is stupid. And it's illegal.

I agree, they are as stupid as the day is long.

Leroy42 · 23-06-2021 09:20AM

Suckit wrote: »

We won't know that for a while. Apparently the genius behind them is that lit
To be honest, I have no real problem with them, it just seems that the idea behind them is daft. MUP however, being introduced into a country with some of the most expensive alcohol prices in Europe, to curb drinking, is stupid. And it's illegal.

How is it illegal?

FileNotFound · 23-06-2021 09:25AM

Leroy42 wrote: »

How is it illegal?

Not sure it's illegal but when scotland did it the EU courts did acknowledge it did not align with free market concept (basically price fixing) but at the same time they didn't want to be involved and left it to the scottish courts to give final say.

Doesn't matter now - it's coming

dubrov · 23-06-2021 10:00AM

Minimum alcohol pricing has been coming for a long time.

Given its popularity, I doubt any politician wants to be seen to be too closely aligned with it.

Padraig Mor · 23-06-2021 10:28AM

Leroy42 wrote: »

How is it illegal?

Was there not some EU restriction that MUP is illegal if the same effect can be delivered by taxation instead? Surely increasing excise would have been the more appropriate option?

dubrov · 23-06-2021 10:39AM

Padraig Mor wrote:

Was there not some EU restriction that MUP is illegal if the same effect can be delivered by taxation instead? Surely increasing excise would have been the more appropriate option?

The problem with excise is that it impacts the pubs as well

the beer revolu · 23-06-2021 10:52AM

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Was there not some EU restriction that MUP is illegal if the same effect can be delivered by taxation instead? Surely increasing excise would have been the more appropriate option?

Let's be honest.
If it was a duty increase which would increase the price of every single alcoholic purchase people , despite what they say, would be even more incensed than they are about the mup.

I am against the mup but I'd be even more against a duty increase.

Suckit · 23-06-2021 01:30PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

How is it illegal?

I think when Scotland contested it, the EU saw no point in continuing it and told them to deal with it locally, as Brexit was going to be happening soon enough and any decision that they may have made would have been irrelevant by then.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/heard-the-one-about-eu-law-and-irish-minimum-alcohol-prices-1.2522678
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30712743.html
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/dec/23/minimum-alcohol-price-in-scotland-could-breach-eu-law-court-rules
https://www.thespiritsbusiness.com/2015/12/eu-court-rules-that-mup-breaches-trade-laws/

Strumms · 23-06-2021 01:43PM

senordingdong wrote: »

I'm dying to know how many lives have been saved by erecting those pathetic saloon doors to the alcohol Isles.

Precisely....Somebody who wants alcohol will get it...doors or any other deterrent won’t dissuade..

Hiking the price means say an alcoholic or regular drinker, spends 150 euros a week on alcohol which is give or take 550 a month on average say.

Is now spending almost say 700 euros a month..

The extra money isn’t a deterrent, because alcoholism is a disease and habitual regular drinkers have a psychological requirement for it, his / her body and mind are craving this chemical..this experience, this feeling..

So the extra money is money that they don’t spend or may not spend of family, health, wellbeing......

Leroy42 · 23-06-2021 01:49PM

Suckit wrote: »

I think when Scotland contested it, the EU saw no point in continuing it and told them to deal with it locally, as Brexit was going to be happening soon enough and any decision that they may have made would have been irrelevant by then.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/heard-the-one-about-eu-law-and-irish-minimum-alcohol-prices-1.2522678
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30712743.html
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/dec/23/minimum-alcohol-price-in-scotland-could-breach-eu-law-court-rules
https://www.thespiritsbusiness.com/2015/12/eu-court-rules-that-mup-breaches-trade-laws/

Right, so it isn't illegal then.

Suckit · 23-06-2021 02:18PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

Right, so it isn't illegal then.

Well it is, as there are alternatives, and it is only considered to not be illegal if there aren't any that are as or more effective.
Also, MUP in itself is deemed illegal when it is pricing a product out of range of the less well off section of society, or any section.
It would be up to the EU to decide conclusively, but as it stands, it is believed to be illegal.

Leroy42 · 23-06-2021 03:11PM

Suckit wrote: »

Well it is, as there are alternatives, and it is only considered to not be illegal if there aren't any that are as or more effective.
Also, MUP in itself is deemed illegal when it is pricing a product out of range of the less well off section of society, or any section.
It would be up to the EU to decide conclusively, but as it stands, it is believed to be illegal.

Believed to be illegal? It either is or it isn't. The EU did not rule that it was illegal. It does violate competition rules but the 'greater good' is an accepted norm and as such it is able to circumvent the rules. Thus it has not been found to be illegal.

It is currently in operation in Scotland, so it cannot be illegal under EU law.

Suckit · 23-06-2021 03:30PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

Believed to be illegal? It either is or it isn't. The EU did not rule that it was illegal. It does violate competition rules but the 'greater good' is an accepted norm and as such it is able to circumvent the rules. Thus it has not been found to be illegal.

It is currently in operation in Scotland, so it cannot be illegal under EU law.

It is not as black and white as you like to think, if it was, it wouldn't have had to go through the EU courts to be told to go to Scottish courts for them to decide.

"The case will now continue to the Scottish courts, and we look forward to a hearing in the new year to determine the outcome in this case."

David Frost, SWA chief executive, said: "The SWA always said European Union law issues were central to this case, and so it has proved. This settles EU law issues once and for all.

"The court has confirmed that minimum unit pricing is a restriction on trade, and that it is illegal to choose MUP [minimum unit pricing] where there are less restrictive ways of achieving the same end.

"The Scottish courts will now reflect on the implications of the ruling and all the evidence, before issuing a final judgement."

Leroy42 · 23-06-2021 03:38PM

Suckit wrote: »

It is not as black and white as you like to think, if it was, it wouldn't have had to go through the EU courts to be told to go to Scottish courts for them to decide.

I'm not saying it is. But something is not illegal until it is. It hasn't been deemed to be illegal, and as such it isn't.

That may change in the future, but as of now it is has been found to be illegal.

elperello · 23-06-2021 06:55PM

I think we can safely discount the Scottish example following Brexit.

MUP may well be illegal but that won't be decided until it is tested in court.

It is clear that it is not in the interests of either the on premises or off sales drinks trade to take a case.

That leaves it up to a consumer challenge which appears very unlikely.

Mr. teddywinkles · 30-07-2021 03:48PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117490371#Comment_117490371

Speaking of scotland. Drug related deaths are up drastically the last 2 years. Any correlation there at all.

macraignil · 30-07-2021 10:31PM

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117683564#Comment_117683564

Just saw the figures on the BBC news there with 1339 deaths (a new record) linked to drugs for 2020 in Scotland and this is the place that advocates of minimum alcolol unit pricing in Ireland are saying is an example we should be following. Just goes to show how much thought these so called advocates for public health have put into a policy that is so prejudiced against people on lower incomes. Minimum alcohol pricing will have no effect on people with good incomes and force those on low incomes to try other substances or cocktails of chemicals to get their fix. It's a disgrace that politicians on incomes such that this legislation has no effect on them can bring in such discrimination against those on low incomes. I have zero confidence a higher price for the cheapest alcohol will have any effect on alcoholics other than leaving them with less money to spend on other things they need to live. I could see some I know more likely to go without food at times rather than having a few cheap cans and a meal as they might have done if this legislation was not introduced.

Hotblack Desiato · 10-08-2021 02:41AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117683564#Comment_117683564

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jul/30/drugs-deaths-in-scotland-soar-to-record-level

Oops.

Richard Hillman · 10-08-2021 08:16AM

Young people will turn to drugs over alcohol. Alcohol Action Ireland and the likes think they'll be doing Saturday Fun Runs and attending mental health workshops.

You'd have to wonder what's next for Alcohol Action Ireland. Once they get this through, they'll need a new issue to keep them going. They'll have to justify that government/lotto money and the 250k spent on wages for 3 employees.

Wilmol · 11-08-2021 11:21PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117731566#Comment_117731566

Reduce alcohol sale hours, this has been done in other countries. Something along the lines of no sale on Sundays and reduced hours such as 12PM to 8PM

Atlantic Dawn · 11-08-2021 11:28PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117740567#Comment_117740567

Or just sell it between 7pm and 8pm on the first Monday of each month and watch sales of illegal drugs rocket while no drink can be bought.

Wilmol · 11-08-2021 11:46PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117740600#Comment_117740600

Yes, yes, but we're saving lives from alcohol and we need to do something! Just shows that the world is unfair when these individuals get paid 6 digit salaries.

ShamNNspace · 17-08-2021 11:25AM

More bull https://www.thejournal.ie/retailers-move-to-selling-smaller-units-of-alcohol-ahead-of-minimum-pricing-charity-claims-5524149-Aug2021/

KrustyUCC · 17-08-2021 11:43AM

Eunan McKinney on RTE going on about how cheap it is to drink here..

Always love how RTE never ask him about us being amongst the most expensive in Europe for alcohol

Thelonious Monk · 17-08-2021 11:53AM

This ridiculous survey what put out by these AAI zealots. I don't know why they are given so much air time.

KrustyUCC · 17-08-2021 01:43PM

Exactly

The same basket of drink would be significantly cheaper in the vast majority of EU countries not to mind what it will be like after January with MUP

RTE couldn't point that out though

Wouldn't be on message

Eunan McKinney was even going on about ICU beds being taken up with alcohol issues that are needed more than ever with Covid

Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

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