Hyundai Ioniq 5

08-06-2021 9:16am

unkel wrote: »

LOL, what inefficiency? It's an EV and unless it has extremely good aerodynamics (like all Teslas and the classic Hyundai Ioniq) it will be very inefficient at 130km/h GPS speed. The original Leaf even when brand new has no more than 80-90km or so range at that speed. Less in winter.

You wouldn't expect the id.4 to do better though ?

Charging 21 Kwh in 8 mins is amazing, I remember the Leaf 24 Kwh taking 50 mins to get to around 18 Kwh, when the battery was warm that might have knocked off maybe 10 mins.

the_amazing_raisin · 08-06-2021 10:24am

Deleted User wrote: »

You wouldn't expect the id.4 to do better though ?

Charging 21 Kwh in 8 mins is amazing, I remember the Leaf 24 Kwh taking 50 mins to get to around 18 Kwh, when the battery was warm that might have knocked off maybe 10 mins.

Personally I was expecting the Ioniq 5 to leave the ID.4 in the dust for efficiency, based on how efficient cars like the Kona and E-Niro are. Bit disappointed that it didn't, but even if it can match the ID.4 then it's plenty

It definitely wins on the charging tests, haven't seen those speeds outside of a Taycan or a Tesla. I'd wager you'd be struggling to fit in a decent pee break into the average charging stop

Unfortunately we're limited on 800V chargers here, so while an Ioniq 5 makes a lot of sense in Germany, it doesn't have that same edge here

I'd also be interested to see how it does on a 400V charger. It'll need to use a DC-DC converter to step up the voltage, and will that converter be power limited to something like 100kW...

liamog · 08-06-2021 11:13am

Reportedly the Ioniq 5 has a multi voltage charger to allow it to use both 400V and 800V DC sources. It's not a separate component like we've seen in some other 800V cars.

ELM327 · 08-06-2021 11:14am

The charger is off board for DC so I suspect it's an integrated inverter?

liamog · 08-06-2021 11:25am

ELM327 wrote: »

The charger is off board for DC so I suspect it's an integrated inverter?

I think it's just called a convertor when doing DC to DC conversion, but yes, I assume they've just integrated this into the charging circuitry.
The other option is to build contactors in the pack which switch the pack voltage from 800V down to 400V.

ELM327 · 08-06-2021 11:31am

Someone somewhere has to come up with the idea of two joined up 400v packs to make "one" 800v pack. It must be more efficient to charge that way.

unkel · 08-06-2021 11:41am

The higher the voltage, the more efficient to charge.

ELM327 · 08-06-2021 12:23pm

Yes, and I dont understand why the step down from 800v is not to 500v? The 125a chargers are generally specced for 500v/125a charging, so you could get 62kW from a 50kW branded charger.

innrain · 08-06-2021 12:25pm

ELM327 wrote: »

The charger is off board for DC so I suspect it's an integrated inverter?

https://tech.hyundaimotorgroup.com/article/interview-with-researchersthe-story-of-ev-technology-on-e-gmp/
It is a long read search for "Multi-charging System, Fast and Easy, a Whole New World of EV Charging"
There is not much detail but it says that they use the motor to step up the voltage.
Even a longer read but I think the article below explains the principle used.
https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/9049394

ELM327 · 08-06-2021 12:29pm

innrain wrote: »

https://tech.hyundaimotorgroup.com/article/interview-with-researchersthe-story-of-ev-technology-on-e-gmp/
It is a long read search for "Multi-charging System, Fast and Easy, a Whole New World of EV Charging"
There is not much detail but it says that they use the motor to step up the voltage.
Even a longer read but I think the article below explains the principle used.
https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/9049394

The second was beyond my level of comprehension at a quick glance but the first was interesting.

1st Article wrote:

other companies support 800V charging under 400V charging infrastructure using a separately mounted on-board charger with a built-in booster, rather than an adapter. In this case, the consumer has to pay an additional cost of about 1.5 million KRW to purchase the controller, and if it is mounted, about 20 kg of weight will be added to the vehicle.

However, with the E-GMP’s multi-charging system, the motor and inverter are already installed in the vehicle and can boost the voltage from 400V to 800V even when a 400V high-speed charger is used

From my brief understanding they are stepping the 400v up to 800v as opposed to the other way round and this seems more efficient.

innrain · 08-06-2021 12:43pm

ELM327 wrote: »

Yes, and I dont understand why the step down from 800v is not to 500v? The 125a chargers are generally specced for 500v/125a charging, so you could get 62kW from a 50kW branded charger.

Compared to physicists engineers use at least two types of values for a measurable. One is the nominal value which is the normal working conditions and the peak value the number above which things start to blow up. On the safety labels it is usually the later. So your 500V it is actually working on 400V but it could go up to 500V
There is a joke amongst the engineers about crank it to 11 coming from the Spinal Tap

liamog · 08-06-2021 12:52pm

Don't the three values work together, the charger has a power limit of 50kW, but will provide anywhere between 400V@125A to 500V@100A. That includes the lower charging speeds we see with 320V cars like the Ioniq 38 which end up getting stuck at 40kW (320V@125A)

Markcheese · 08-06-2021 12:56pm

unkel wrote: »

i3 is a super mini, Ioniq 5 is a large crossover. Of course it is going to consume more electricity! My Tesla is bigger and heavier again and I don't have to do anything funny to get consumption to go well over 30kWh / 100km even sometimes doing close to 40kWh / 100km

You mean there's no such thing as a free lunch ? Shocked so I am ... Between the increased size and weight , and the styling heading away from a more
ideal aero-dynamic shape , it's bound to happen -
Which requires a heavier battery to lug it at range -
It's not that surprising I suppose as EVs are being sold as a more premium product - and heading for crossover sizing ...

ELM327 · 08-06-2021 12:59pm

liamog wrote: »

Don't the three values work together, the charger has a power limit of 50kW, but will provide anywhere between 400V@125A to 500V@100A. That includes the lower charging speeds we see with 320V cars like the Ioniq 38 which end up getting stuck at 40kW (320V@125A)

Could be, the Ionity chargers are like that. Rated at 800v and 500a but the max deliverable power is 350kW not 400.

KCross · 08-06-2021 1:28pm

ELM327 wrote: »

Could be, the Ionity chargers are like that. Rated at 800v and 500a but the max deliverable power is 350kW not 400.

I would say its that.

The limiting factor is primarily the current, not Vmax.

The voltage of the charger has to be just above the battery pack (AFAIK) so you dont get Vmax x Imax into the car during the charge curve.

the_amazing_raisin · 08-06-2021 2:08pm

ELM327 wrote: »

From my brief understanding they are stepping the 400v up to 800v as opposed to the other way round and this seems more efficient.

So to charge an 800V battery using 400V they need to step up the voltage, Porsche had the same problem with the Taycan and used an on board converter to stop it up. Unfortunately the default converter was limited to 50kW and the upgraded one only went to 100kW or something

Hyundai are being smart by re-using the onboard power electronics to do boost the voltage. Saves on weight, complexity and component costs

But, they didn't say anywhere if the power was limited this way. Ideally you should be getting half the max charging power from an 800V chargers, so around 110kW. But they could have put limiters on it and it'll slow down

John arse · 14-06-2021 3:12pm

so ordered a new kuga st line x phev on Saturday,beautiful car with great spec and absolutely terrific on the road.suits me down to the ground(might not
suit everyone i know),great deal too well under €40k,said i'd take a look before the grant is cut,happy as a pig in muck:D

Irishjg · 14-06-2021 6:29pm

John arse wrote: »

so ordered a new kuga st line x phev on Saturday,beautiful car with great spec and absolutely terrific on the road.suits me down to the ground(might not
suit everyone i know),great deal too well under €40k,said i'd take a look before the grant is cut,happy as a pig in muck:D

Well done sir. Best of luck with the new wheels. What’s the battery capacity in her and what’s available. I presume your average daily commute/ usage is covered.

John arse · 14-06-2021 7:28pm

well it's got a 14kw battery,i'm semi retired now driving about 15-20 km a day approx with a few trips to Galway and Kerry (i'm in the east of the country)during the year on breaks,it's meant to do about 50km on electric but apparently the petrol engine does about 45-50 mpg(we'll see)so i reckon a couple of charges a week should do me(i'm in the motor trade by the way and am used to regularly charging stuff up),just in a new house too that's wired for a wallbox so this thing won't see much petrol believe me.as i posted previously i drove the enyaq a few weeks ago but also last week i drove the id4 -nice enough but too expensive also very likely you'd kill yourself while driving trying to use the ridiculous touchscreen system.the ford just seems to do every thing well for me with a lovely sporty brisk drive ,as for what's available not sure what you mean maybe look at ford.ie for that.got fed up waiting for the hyundai and kia which i reckon are gonna be 45k+++ ,so there you are just waiting for my 212 to be readied:cool:

iBaxter · 24-06-2021 9:02am

Hey best of luck with the new Kuga, lovely car..and reasonably priced..im looking at getting one as well, and I have a few questions : can I just clarify if that st line x is it a better spec than the titanium.

Can I ask if you shopped around much for best price, I have a quote from Spirit motors, straight deal, no trade in. Im going to try a few others for best price.

John arse · 24-06-2021 10:30am

iBaxter wrote: »

Hey best of luck with the new Kuga, lovely car..and reasonably priced..im looking at getting one as well, and I have a few questions : can I just clarify if that st line x is it a better spec than the titanium.

Can I ask if you shopped around much for best price, I have a quote from Spirit motors, straight deal, no trade in. Im going to try a few others for best price.

well i did a small bit of shopping around-not much though as i had a figure that i was prepared to pay and wanted to buy where i would be getting the car Serviced etc and couldn't be arsed running around for the sake of a few hundred euro basically,i won't say exactly where it was but suffice it to say south county dublin/wicklow area-paying €38k(you might get better
dunno ).if you're getting a phev move quick because the grant is being halved at the end of this month that's what prompted me.as for the spec difference it's all on ford.ie-did spirit not explain that to you?i'm doing a straight deal as well.good luck.

iBaxter · 24-06-2021 12:39pm

John arse wrote: »

well i did a small bit of shopping around-not much though as i had a figure that i was prepared to pay and wanted to buy where i would be getting the car Serviced etc and couldn't be arsed running around for the sake of a few hundred euro basically,i won't say exactly where it was but suffice it to say south county dublin/wicklow area-paying €38k(you might get better
dunno ).if you're getting a phev move quick because the grant is being halved at the end of this month that's what prompted me.as for the spec difference it's all on ford.ie-did spirit not explain that to you?i'm doing a straight deal as well.good luck.

Thanks for the info, yes i was qouted around the €38K mark as well, and likewise im not minded to chase all over for the sake of a few hundred, its obviously a special offer they are doing on the plug in ST line, as the Titanium with a lower spec is coming in dearer, its just i hadnt intended going for the plug in, but im thinking i might go for it now. Thanks again, appreciated.

John arse · 24-06-2021 2:12pm

iBaxter wrote: »

Thanks for the info, yes i was qouted around the €38K mark as well, and likewise im not minded to chase all over for the sake of a few hundred, its obviously a special offer they are doing on the plug in ST line, as the Titanium with a lower spec is coming in dearer, its just i hadnt intended going for the plug in, but im thinking i might go for it now. Thanks again, appreciated.

don't know if it's a special offer on the phev as such but the price on that titanium should be less than that i would have thought(but i'm no expert)good luck

John arse · 24-06-2021 5:18pm

just had a look on carzone,brand new kuga titanium phev €36k-ish/titanium diesel(1.5 engine)€34k-ish(before haggling too-ford have a reputation for a bit of a deal)

iBaxter · 25-06-2021 10:20am

John arse wrote: »

just had a look on carzone,brand new kuga titanium phev €36k-ish/titanium diesel(1.5 engine)€34k-ish(before haggling too-ford have a reputation for a bit of a deal)

Ah yes thank you, I have the itemised price list now, Im thinking the Titanium is well enough specked out for me. There are a lot of different models to choose from, Hybrid, mild hybrid and Plug in hybrid , not to mention eco blue and diesel.. Phew..buying a car used to be easy.. Thanks again for the advice, and good luck with the new car.

03-07-2021 10:17am

A German Youtuber called Andreas Haehnel did a livestream in a 58kWh Ioniq 5 overnight. He covered 1000km in 9hours and 57minutes. He did the same trip in a 80kWh Enyaq in 10h18m in May and an id.3 58kWh last year in over 11 hours.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_uZ8lG7pZI

03-07-2021 8:32pm

That's actually quite respectable for the id.3 58 Kwh, can't wait to get my 78 Kwh id.3 at that rate.

Would love to take it to see the German Outlaws in baden württemberg but not sure the Missus would bother, long time when we could do it in a lot less time on a plane but I hate airports with a passion and her Old Man got a brand new E-Soul, shocked he spent the money the miserable tight git but he as a charge point at the house now not sure if it's 3 phase or not yet.

1800 Kms according to google 1,656 Kms through the U.K and through the tunnel, sailing to france would take longer maybe.

I'm just thinking 300-350 kms at decent speed or 400 + at slower speeds. Battery life on youtube got 360 kms at 130 Km/hr at 15 Deg C so at 110 Km'hr might get 400+

Not sure I could cope with all the different methods of payment with the different providers, should have card reader on all the chargers for credit or debit cards end of. Even the local Auto Car wash in Carlow Town has a card payment option now so you don't have to go into the shop.

Sorry I know bit of a thread hijack.

Kramer · 03-07-2021 9:44pm

Deleted User wrote: »

can't wait to get my 78 Kwh id.3 at that rate.

Would love to take it to see the German Outlaws in baden württemberg

That's where a Tesla would be ideal. SuC network all the way for quick, reliable & cheap charging.

I've seen Ioniq 5 videos from Canada & reviews coming in from everywhere, yet not a peep from my local Hyundai dealer, who has heard nothing about when it's arriving here

.

I think Hyundai/Kia have missed a trick here with the VW/Skoda/Audi offerings cleaning up. I'm quickly losing interest in the Ioniq 5 anyway - too many other players in the game these days & the old Ioniq's efficiency doesn't mean much these days with 70kWh+ batteries & 100kW+ charging becoming ubiquitous.

I guess it will aid in driving down prices though - competition & all that

.

the_amazing_raisin · 03-07-2021 10:46pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That's actually quite respectable for the id.3 58 Kwh, can't wait to get my 78 Kwh id.3 at that rate.

Would love to take it to see the German Outlaws in baden württemberg but not sure the Missus would bother, long time when we could do it in a lot less time on a plane but I hate airports with a passion and her Old Man got a brand new E-Soul, shocked he spent the money the miserable tight git but he as a charge point at the house now not sure if it's 3 phase or not yet.

1800 Kms according to google 1,656 Kms through the U.K and through the tunnel, sailing to france would take longer maybe.

I'm just thinking 300-350 kms at decent speed or 400 + at slower speeds. Battery life on youtube got 360 kms at 130 Km/hr at 15 Deg C so at 110 Km'hr might get 400+

Not sure I could cope with all the different methods of payment with the different providers, should have card reader on all the chargers for credit or debit cards end of. Even the local Auto Car wash in Carlow Town has a card payment option now so you don't have to go into the shop.

Sorry I know bit of a thread hijack.

You drive, let her take the kids on the plane, I'm sure she won't mind

the_amazing_raisin · 03-07-2021 10:48pm

Kramer wrote: »

That's where a Tesla would be ideal. SuC network all the way for quick, reliable & cheap charging.

I've seen Ioniq 5 videos from Canada & reviews coming in from everywhere, yet not a peep from my local Hyundai dealer, who has heard nothing about when it's arriving here .

I think Hyundai/Kia have missed a trick here with the VW/Skoda/Audi offerings cleaning up. I'm quickly losing interest in the Ioniq 5 anyway - too many other players in the game these days & the old Ioniq's efficiency doesn't mean much these days with 70kWh+ batteries & 100kW+ charging becoming ubiquitous.

I guess it will aid in driving down prices though - competition & all that .

Driving down prices on the high end maybe, but you'll still struggle to find a new EV with ~40kWh battery capacity for under €25k

Hyundai Ioniq 5

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