Wifi mesh systems

26-05-2021 6:50am

poker--addict wrote: »

Can you explain that further for the uneducated amongst us?

"What is Double NAT? | Answer | NETGEAR Support" https://kb.netgear.com/30186/What-is-Double-NAT

Clareman · 26-05-2021 6:51am

Clareman wrote: »

NAT is network address translation, at a high level it means now a router figures what you're looking for and how to get there, think Google maps translating an eir code to an address, then to longitude & latitude and finally how to get there quickest from where you are. If you have 2 routers doing the job you are doing all this working out twice which will mean slower journeys or in some cases not being able to decide on the route to take at all.

Most times it won't be an issue but if you might notice speed issues with some applications (gaming being a great example of this) or services with extra security (like VPNs)

Oh yeah, should have added that this works both ways so you might have devices on your network you want to see from the outside (CCTV, media servers, smart tech), double NAT can make this a pain in the arse to setup

tonc76 · 16-06-2021 10:35am

Has anyone bought and successfully set up this yet?

I want to extend my wi fi range and with a view to future proofing I think the eero 6 is the way to go. I already have various amazon products (echos, ring doorbell and cameras) and there are some good prime deals on at the moment (eero 6 router and 2 x extenders for £195 which is 30% off for instance)

My bb provider is eir and I have 4g mobile broadband with a Huawei B628 router regularly getting download speeds of 70+MB and upload of 15+MB. It appears that 5G is now available in my area too so I'll change to that if a trial with my phone goes well.

Am I wasting my time going for the eero 6 over the eero or eero pro?

RangeR · 17-06-2021 9:45am

tonc76 wrote: »

Has anyone bought and successfully set up this yet?

I want to extend my wi fi range and with a view to future proofing I think the eero 6 is the way to go. I already have various amazon products (echos, ring doorbell and cameras) and there are some good prime deals on at the moment (eero 6 router and 2 x extenders for £195 which is 30% off for instance)

My bb provider is eir and I have 4g mobile broadband with a Huawei B628 router regularly getting download speeds of 70+MB and upload of 15+MB. It appears that 5G is now available in my area too so I'll change to that if a trial with my phone goes well.

Am I wasting my time going for the eero 6 over the eero or eero pro?

I think you are barking up the wrong tree with the eero. I don't think you will be future proofing with the this product. This is not something I would purchase. I've never heard of this system before but just read a few reviews.

Some features on the eero require a subscription, although not sure why anyone would pay for it.

As far as hardware is concerned, you get what you pay for. The eero hardware is cheap, underpowered and limited. It has a hard time routing traffic through the mesh optimally. This may change with software updates. It also doesn't have any wired backhaul option so all mesh transfers are over a separate wifi band. Not a deal breaker by any means, unless wifi is going through concrete/metal or many obstacles.

The clear winner in these here parts is the TP-Link DECO range, M5, M7, M9, P9, X20, X60. You will pay a little extra but receive multitude more features. You also have the DECO E4/S4 range if on a budget.

A router/Mesh should be seen as a mid to long term investment. Pay as much as you can afford and one with as many features as possible. There is a high chance you will want those features down the road.

I have Google WIFI and I no longer recommend it to anyone except those who lack total technical knowledge. I'm looking to get rid of it soon for a DECO.

The eero reviews I read are here:

https://www.cnet.com/home/internet/eero-6-review-amazons-wi-fi-6-mesh-router-underwhelms/
https://www.techradar.com/reviews/amazon-eero-6

* As with all of these products, you only want one router on your network. Bridge your existing router before hooking up another one.

davo2001 · 17-06-2021 10:39am

My father in law has Eir 1000Mbit fiber with patchy wireless connectivity. He has DUX1BHL

router.

On recommendations here i've gotten him 3 x TP-Link Deco M4 units, and waiting on delivery.

Do people recommend just disabling the wifi on the Eir router and using all 3 units as AP's?

Or is it worth putting the Eir router in bridge mode (if so is there a guide how?) and using DHCP for the LAN via one of the TP-links?

Edit: image of router: https://imgur.com/DUX1BHL

RangeR · 17-06-2021 10:44am

davo2001 wrote: »

My father in law has Eir 1000Mbit fiber with patchy wireless connectivity. He has router.

On recommendations here i've gotten him 3 x TP-Link Deco M4 units, and waiting on delivery.

Do people recommend just disabling the wifi on the Eir router and using all 3 units as AP's?

Or is it worth putting the Eir router in bridge mode (if so is there a guide how?) and using DHCP for the LAN via one of the TP-links?

Yes, put eir box into bridged/modem mode. Disable wifi but bridging may do that anyway. I don't have eir so can't post a guide.

Your DECO should do everything at that point, firewall, router, DHCP, NAT etc.

NOTE: ONLY plug your DECO into your eir modem, nothing else. It's no longer protected. If you have other hardwired devices, please purchase a separate 4/8/16 port switch and connect it to the DECO LAN port.

davo2001 · 17-06-2021 10:47am

RangeR wrote: »

Yes, put eir box into bridged/modem mode. Disable wifi but bridging may do that anyway. I don't have eir so can't post a guide.

Your DECO should do everything at that point, firewall, router, DHCP, NAT etc.

NOTE: ONLY plug your DECO into your eir modem, nothing else. It's no longer protected. If you have other hardwired devices, please purchase a separate 4/8/16 port switch and connect it to the DECO LAN port.

Cheers, thanks.

If anyone can identify the model of Eir router from the link below so i can lookup bridging guide (sorry, I'm an hours drive away or cannot double check myself). I think it's an F1000 or F2000?

https://imgur.com/DUX1BHL

babelfish1990 · 17-06-2021 12:22pm

davo2001 wrote: »

Cheers, thanks.

If anyone can identify the model of Eir router from the link below so i can lookup bridging guide (sorry, I'm an hours drive away or cannot double check myself). I think it's an F1000 or F2000?

https://imgur.com/DUX1BHL

It looks like an Eir F3000. If so, this supports Mesh natively. While there is nothing wrong with the Deco, you would be better advise to get Eir's own mesh devices, which will work directly off the F3000 - Eir Smart WiFi hubs. If you go for another make such as TPlink Deco, you will need an extra unit to cover the zone currently covered by the Eir F3000. Eir Smart WiFi hubs are very high-spec WiFi 6, and reasonably priced.

If you do decide to keep the Deco's, I wouldn't recommend bridge mode unless you really understand networking and security protocols. It's too dangerous, and you won't be able to get customer care to login and help you if you have issues. Instead just plug the first Deco into the F3000 and turn off WiFi in the F3000. Configure the Deco's in Access Point mode, not Router mode.

tonc76 · 17-06-2021 7:06pm

RangeR wrote: »

I think you are barking up the wrong tree with the eero......

That's exactly the advice I was looking for thanks

RangeR · 18-06-2021 9:05am

babelfish1990 wrote: »

If you go for another make such as TPlink Deco, you will need an extra unit to cover the zone currently covered by the Eir F3000

If you do decide to keep the Deco's, I wouldn't recommend bridge mode unless you really understand networking and security protocols. It's too dangerous, and you won't be able to get customer care to login and help you if you have issues. Instead just plug the first Deco into the F3000 and turn off WiFi in the F3000. Configure the Deco's in Access Point mode, not Router mode.

6 of one, half dozen the other. You end up with only one router. Generally speaking, who gets modem support from eir, if you can even contact them?

If you are going to the expense of future proofing your network by purchasing a DECO solution, why disable it's core features and rely on the vastly subpar eir box?

The first DECO will always be hardwired to the router anyway so not sure why you mention this as a downside.

I've never heard of anybody actually recommending an eir branded mesh in this thread [or anywhere else]. I would never recommend such a solution. What happens when you migrate away from eir to another internet provider? Will your mesh add-ons work with your new provider router [vodafone, digiweb, virgin media, sky, siro, etc]? At €100 per AP, certainly not cheap for what it is.

alanhiggyno1 · 18-06-2021 3:45pm

I got the tenda nova mw6 3 pack yesterday. The difference is night and day. Full signal throughout house and garden and no drops on speed. Would recommend

RangeR · 18-06-2021 9:56pm

alanhiggyno1 wrote: »

I got the tenda nova mw6 3 pack yesterday. The difference is night and day. Full signal throughout house and garden and no drops on speed. Would recommend

Never heard of them. They look the business. And the MW12 has THREE LAN ports. OMFG I think I just wet myself. Might give them a go instead of the DECO. Although they are a bit boxy. I like to wall mount mine high. Not sure if I can do this with the Tenda.

alec76 · 18-06-2021 10:34pm

The clear winner in these here parts is the TP-Link DECO range, M5, M7, M9, P9, X20, X60. You will pay a little extra but receive multitude more features. You also have the DECO E4/S4 range if on a budget.

Anyone with any sense would stay away from TP LINK as far as possible.
There is nothing wrong with Google Mesh Systems, well only lunatic would get Google WiFi while Nest WIFI is available.
Why?
4x4 MIMO , ring a bell? ( you could hit 800 mbps over WIFI with 3x3 MIMO device , MacBook Pro 2017-19 , for instance) or you could hit over 500 mbps on two 2x2 MIMO devices ( regular smart phone)AT SAME time. Don’t you forget , it is only WIFI 5 system.
I don’t think there are any other retail system for home use with this feature available.
Well, any Pro/IT user would go for APs from Ubiquity or Aruba , but assuming they won’t be reading this thread anyway.

alec76 · 18-06-2021 10:44pm

davo2001 wrote: »

My father in law has Eir 1000Mbit fiber with patchy wireless connectivity. He has router.

On recommendations here i've gotten him 3 x TP-Link Deco M4 units, and waiting on delivery.

Do people recommend just disabling the wifi on the Eir router and using all 3 units as AP's?

Or is it worth putting the Eir router in bridge mode (if so is there a guide how?) and using DHCP for the LAN via one of the TP-links?

Edit: image of router: https://imgur.com/DUX1BHL

Deco M4 .
Nice buy . You’ll be getting 150-200 mbps speeds with this system /
300 mbps with Ethernet bakhaul.
Eir´s mesh system would outperform it few times .

https://www.eir.ie/smartwifi/

If you went for DECO then there is no point of 1000 broadband package , stay with 150 mbps .

babelfish1990 · 18-06-2021 11:02pm

RangeR wrote: »

The first DECO will always be hardwired to the router anyway so not sure why you mention this as a downside.

RangeR - it is a downside because it means with Deco you have to provide an additional access point to cover the zone currently covered by your Eir F3000 router (which supports mesh natively).

For example, Davo2001 told us that he had got a 3-pack of Deco M5. He would only have needed a twin pack of Eir Smart WiFi hubs (€169), as his third AP would be the native mesh WiFi in the F3000. More generally, you will require N+1 additional Access Points to cover a home with a 3rd party mesh solution vs N if you use the Eir Smart WiFi hubs with the F3000.

Furthermore, the spec of the Eir Smart WiFi hubs is higher than Deco M5 - it is WiFi 6. With Deco you need to go to their X series devices to get WiFi 6 - around €250 for a 3-pack. WiFi 6 is future-proofed up to 9.6Gbps, if the Eir fibre gets upgraded in the future from 1Gbps to 2-10Gbps. Regarding the compatibility with a future ISP - the Eir Smart WiFi hubs are standard WiFi 6 mesh devices, and their support page actually states that they will work with other ISP modems. (However, with another ISP that does not support mesh natively, you would then need to get an additional AP to cover your modem zone.)

alec76 · 18-06-2021 11:14pm

RangeR wrote: »

At €100 per AP, certainly not cheap for what it is.

€100 for one ,€170 for two wifi 6APs not cheap ?
Er… I dunno .
Are you aware what WIFi 6 devices are ?

alec76 · 19-06-2021 8:14am

babelfish1990 wrote: »

WiFi 6 is future-proofed up to 9.6Gbps, if the Eir fibre gets upgraded in the future from 1Gbps to 2-10Gbps.

It is not about top speeds really,WiFi 6 definitely huge improvement in terms of compatibility , multiple clients could work seamlessly together under heavy load.
As for the top WIFI 6 speeds , you’ll be lucky to get 800mbps on your IPhone 12 /Samsung Galaxy s21 in real life , don’t mind 2-10Gbps.
Unless it is 3x3 /4x4 MIMO smartphone ( I am not sure if they exist btw)

babelfish1990 · 19-06-2021 9:07am

alec76 wrote: »

It is not about top speeds really,WiFi 6 definitely huge improvement in terms of compatibility , multiple clients could work seamlessly together under heavy load.
As for the top WIFI 6 speeds , you’ll be lucky to get 800mbps on your IPhone 12 /Samsung Galaxy s21 in real life , don’t mind 2-10Gbps.
Unless it is 3x3 /4x4 MIMO smartphone ( I am not sure if they exist btw)

I actually agree with you Alec76 - the headline speed is the least important of the attributes of WiFi 6, and not likely to be needed any time soon. I just mentioned it, because it is the easiest feature for non-technical users to use as a benchmark when comparing devices.

alanhiggyno1 · 19-06-2021 9:59am

RangeR wrote: »

Never heard of them. They look the business. And the MW12 has THREE LAN ports. OMFG I think I just wet myself. Might give them a go instead of the DECO. Although they are a bit boxy. I like to wall mount mine high. Not sure if I can do this with the Tenda.

You can wall mount them I did it with mine

RangeR · 19-06-2021 12:51pm

alec76 wrote: »

Anyone with any sense would stay away from TP LINK as far as possible.
There is nothing wrong with Google Mesh Systems, well only lunatic would get Google WiFi while Nest WIFI is available.
Why?
4x4 MIMO , ring a bell? ( you could hit 800 mbps over WIFI with 3x3 MIMO device , MacBook Pro 2017-19 , for instance) or you could hit over 500 mbps on two 2x2 MIMO devices ( regular smart phone)AT SAME time. Don’t you forget , it is only WIFI 5 system.
I don’t think there are any other retail system for home use with this feature available.
Well, any Pro/IT user would go for APs from Ubiquity or Aruba , but assuming they won’t be reading this thread anyway.

Ubiquity / Aruba are heavily overpriced. I'm a pro IT user and I wouldn't pay for these devices in my home. I prefer bang for buck, not always bleeding edge.

Respectfully, I have Google Wifi. It does what it does very well. But they also have limitations and drawbacks.

1. Yan't turn the router off. Well you can, but you lose your mesh and just have separate APs that all need to be hardwired back to the router.

2. No web interface. I have a PITA configuring the mesh from my mobile phone while sitting at my computer.
3. If the Google Home app isn't working, you aren't able to manage your network, Yes, this happened to me a few times.
4. Can only configure one SSID. Yes you can have an extra guest SSID. I'd like to have 3 or 4 SSID's to segregate my devices.
5. It has basic port forwarding, dhcp reservations etc but I'd also like to block internet connection to some devices [CCTV] and set up vLans per SSID / LAN.
6. Has no router based VPN client or server option.

There are many more features that I know are lacking from Google WIFI but just can't think of them at the moment.

I stand by my reasons of not recommending Google WIFI except for the absolutely non technical. For the money, I'd much rather the DECO M9.

RangeR · 19-06-2021 12:57pm

babelfish1990 wrote: »

RangeR - it is a downside because it means with Deco you have to provide an additional access point to cover the zone currently covered by your Eir F3000 router (which supports mesh natively).

For example, Davo2001 told us that he had got a 3-pack of Deco M5. He would only have needed a twin pack of Eir Smart WiFi hubs (€169), as his third AP would be the native mesh WiFi in the F3000. More generally, you will require N+1 additional Access Points to cover a home with a 3rd party mesh solution vs N if you use the Eir Smart WiFi hubs with the F3000.

Furthermore, the spec of the Eir Smart WiFi hubs is higher than Deco M5 - it is WiFi 6. With Deco you need to go to their X series devices to get WiFi 6 - around €250 for a 3-pack. WiFi 6 is future-proofed up to 9.6Gbps, if the Eir fibre gets upgraded in the future from 1Gbps to 2-10Gbps. Regarding the compatibility with a future ISP - the Eir Smart WiFi hubs are standard WiFi 6 mesh devices, and their support page actually states that they will work with other ISP modems. (However, with another ISP that does not support mesh natively, you would then need to get an additional AP to cover your modem zone.)

I agree with everything you said but you are relying on your router to be another wifi point in the mesh. This means that as soon as you leave eir for another provider you are back to N+1.

Of course the eir mesh devices will work with any ISP, it's just a LAN device. But they WON'T be compatible with the router wifi to widen the mesh. Why go for quasi ISP lock in when you don't have to? I just see no compelling reason to go eir mesh.

RangeR · 19-06-2021 1:04pm

alec76 wrote: »

€100 for one ,€170 for two wifi 6APs not cheap ?
Er… I dunno .
Are you aware what WIFi 6 devices are ?

Compared to competing product that offer more for similar money. I won't care about WIFI 6 until 3 to 5 years time. None of my devices support it. Me being me, I'll be moving onto another mesh by that time

Mc Love · 21-06-2021 9:16am

Would the Deco M9 work for an external building(garage)? Cant use powerline as its not on the same electricity circuit unfortunately.

RangeR · 21-06-2021 9:18am

Mc Love wrote: »

Would the Deco M9 work for an external building(garage)? Cant use powerline as its not on the same electricity circuit unfortunately.

I don't see why not IF the external building can get WIFI coverage from another in house M9.

Seamu$ · 28-06-2021 1:59pm

What would be regarded as the best value Wifi6 mesh system currently?

Was looking at the Eero 6's but was put off by the poor reviews. I'd like to cover 3500 sq ft, have 500Mbps Vodafone FTTH - getting 41Mbps on the 2.4GHz & 263Mpbs on the 5GHz networks on mobile just next to the router.

Would Deco X20's be a good option?

alec76 · 28-06-2021 6:22pm

Seamu$ wrote: »

What would be regarded as the best value Wifi6 mesh system currently?

Was looking at the Eero 6's but was put off by the poor reviews. I'd like to cover 3500 sq ft, have 500Mbps Vodafone FTTH - getting 41Mbps on the 2.4GHz & 263Mpbs on the 5GHz networks on mobile just next to the router.

Would Deco X20's be a good option?

Unless you could connect all 3 DECO x20 units with Ethernet backhaul , don’t bother, you won’t see speeds above 200-280 mbps from the APs.

Clareman · 28-06-2021 6:41pm

I am holding off on Wifi 6 for a while, I have a few devices that can handle it but for anything that I need that much bandwidth I have a cable for it, as I've SIRO broadband internet speed isn't really a concern.

Mickeroo · 29-06-2021 8:45am

Been toying with grabbing the google wifi router and point while they are on sale. House is a standard enough three bed semi-d, wifi coverage is grand for the most part but the sun room and back garden are pretty patchy. Would be nice to have full 5Ghz signal out there too.

Just wondering before I decide to pull the trigger or not, has anyone had any issues getting devices connected to them that are reliant on 2.4Ghz wifi?

I know from recent experience of eir getting rid of the separate 5Ghz band on my router that my smart plugs, robovac and the data logger for the solar panels wouldn't connect when they were relying on band steering to pick the right band so I don't want to drop money on the mesh system if these devices won't work with it.

Also I presume there's no issue using these with eir's router?

Cheers!

alec76 · 29-06-2021 10:06am

Mickeroo wrote: »

Been toying with grabbing the google wifi router and point while they are on sale!

Don't do this mistake.
Only NEST WiFi routers are worth buying IMO , stay away from Google WIFI router which is first generation.
Instead of buying
Nest WiFi router and Nest WiFi point go for 2 NEST WIFI ROUTERS.( second router could work as a point and has 2 Ethernet ports).
ps. Why wouldn't you go for EIR Smart WIFI altogether?
Cheapest option if your current Eir's router is F3000.

Clareman · 29-06-2021 10:08am

Mickeroo wrote: »

Been toying with grabbing the google wifi router and point while they are on sale. House is a standard enough three bed semi-d, wifi coverage is grand for the most part but the sun room and back garden are pretty patchy. Would be nice to have full 5Ghz signal out there too.

Just wondering before I decide to pull the trigger or not, has anyone had any issues getting devices connected to them that are reliant on 2.4Ghz wifi?

I know from recent experience of eir getting rid of the separate 5Ghz band on my router that my smart plugs, robovac and the data logger for the solar panels wouldn't connect when they were relying on band steering to pick the right band so I don't want to drop money on the mesh system if these devices won't work with it.

Also I presume there's no issue using these with eir's router?

Cheers!

I've a very similar setup to you, 4 bedrooms, sun room, garden and a mix of 2.4 and 5 devices (camera, vacuum, doorbell on 2.4) and I have to say I haven't had a single problem, Nest automatically switches the devices to the 2.4 network if that's what's wanted, you just have 2 WiFi networks (main and guest) so you don't need to worry about different frequencies, it just works.

alec76 · 29-06-2021 10:14am

I've Netgear ORBI RBK53 system ( pretty old now) , there is no separate 5ghz Vs 2.4ghz ssids as well ( from the box, anyway). . Never had ANY issues with my SMART PLUGS, vacuum robots etc .
I don't think that would be an issue with any other modern Mesh system with single ssid.

RangeR · 29-06-2021 11:14am

alec76 wrote: »

Unless you could connect all 3 DECO x20 units with Ethernet backhaul , don’t bother, you won’t see speeds above 200-280 mbps from the APs.

I would have thought so to, until I saw it in action. On my Google WIFI, 3 point wifi backhaul meshed network [only the Google router is hardwired], I get ...

*LAN not WAN Speed test*

Android OnePlus 7 Pro : 2 meters line of sight to AP : 378Mbps
Amazon Firestick : 2 meters line of sight to second GM : 511Mbps
Another Android Phone : Not sure where it is in the house so must be >=4 meters from nearest AP through at least one stud partition : 344Mbps

Most other devices [28 in total] fall below 200Mbps but, at lease in my case, the bottleneck seems to be the actual client device, not the mesh with WIFI backhaul. I never thought it could be so fast and am, quite frankly, amazed at the speed.

RangeR · 29-06-2021 11:32am

Mickeroo wrote: »

Been toying with grabbing the google wifi router and point while they are on sale. House is a standard enough three bed semi-d, wifi coverage is grand for the most part but the sun room and back garden are pretty patchy. Would be nice to have full 5Ghz signal out there too.

Just wondering before I decide to pull the trigger or not, has anyone had any issues getting devices connected to them that are reliant on 2.4Ghz wifi?

I know from recent experience of eir getting rid of the separate 5Ghz band on my router that my smart plugs, robovac and the data logger for the solar panels wouldn't connect when they were relying on band steering to pick the right band so I don't want to drop money on the mesh system if these devices won't work with it.

Also I presume there's no issue using these with eir's router?

Cheers!

I would highly recommend Google WIFI [haven't tried Nest Wifi] once you understand the limitations. As I said earlier...

1. Can't turn the router off. Well you can, but you lose your mesh and just have separate APs that all need to be hardwired back to the router.
2. No web interface. I have a PITA configuring the mesh from my mobile phone while sitting at my computer.
3. If the Google Home app isn't working, you aren't able to manage your network, Yes, this happened to me a few times.
4. Can only configure one SSID. Yes you can have an extra guest SSID. I'd like to have 3 or 4 SSID's to segregate my devices.
5. It has basic port forwarding, dhcp reservations etc but I'd also like to block internet connection to some devices [CCTV] and set up vLans per SSID / LAN.
6. Has no router based VPN client or server option.

If none of these matter to you now or in the near to mid future, absolutely, go Google/Nest WIFI. Hands down does what it does very well and very simple to manage. For me, having to manage my network through their app is troublesome. They used to have a dedicated app but over the past year or so, migrated the functionality into the Google Home app. It wasn't a seamless transition. Now everything has to be done in the Home app which can be flaky and doesn't have all of the options that the dedicated app has.
You are also at the behest of Google. If their app fails for any amount of time, you CANNOT manage your network, open a port, add an ip reservation etc. This happened to me once or twice over the past few years. While rare, I absolutely needed to config my network right then but couldn't. That's why I'm getting rid of it. I'd much prefer a local web gui.

I have 3 GW points. All linked together over wifi not wired. The speed is unbelievably amazing, in the literal sense. I can't believe it goes that fast with no wired backhaul.

There is also no way that I've found creating a 2.4 and 5 separate SSID's. They both have to be named the same but this isn't a problem for me, it's just that you mentioned it.

So, I'm going to do something new and stay away from my advice. Alec76 and maybe one other recently, put the idea into my head. After a bit of research on WIFI6, I'm going to try set up a differenty WIFI Mesh. I'm looking to base it on ASUS range of routers. I'm going to splurge on the base router and then add on a either two smaller ASUS routers or two of their Mesh products and see how it goes. Might take me a month or two as I need to research the best bang for buck products that they have, and also put some money aside for it. I'll report back when I get it done.

alec76 · 29-06-2021 1:08pm

RangeR wrote: »

I would have thought so to, until I saw it in action. On my Google WIFI, 3 point wifi backhaul meshed network [only the Google router is hardwired], I get ...

What difference it makes what could u see with Google WIFI?
DECO X20 are extremely weak WIFI performer , no compare to Google WiFi, don't mind NEST, plenty tests around the web , as soon its creates 2 backhaul links for 2 other points there is barely nothing left for wifi clients itself.
Here the comparison X60 Vs X90

https://youtu.be/eKcqBczT9Q4
It is very pity , most of the yanks don't have a decent broadband thought. All these tests of WIFI6 routers while ythey only have 400/500 Mbps WiFi quite pathetic.

They both useless for wireless backhaul too BTW
Couldn't deliver 500mbps to all units .
my old NETGEAR ORBI RBK53 do better job definitely.

RangeR · 29-06-2021 1:15pm

alec76 wrote: »

What difference it makes what could u see with Google WIFI?

Sorry, not understanding what you're asking here.

RangeR · 29-06-2021 1:54pm

alec76 wrote: »

What difference it makes what could u see with Google WIFI?
DECO X20 are extremely weak WIFI performer , no compare to Google WiFi, don't mind NEST, plenty tests around the web , as soon its creates 2 backhaul links for 2 other points there is barely nothing left for wifi clients itself.
Here the comparison X60 Vs X90

https://youtu.be/eKcqBczT9Q4
It is very pity , most of the yanks don't have a decent broadband thought. All these tests of WIFI6 routers while ythey only have 400/500 Mbps WiFi quite pathetic.

They both useless for wireless backhaul too BTW
Couldn't deliver 500mbps to all units .
my old NETGEAR ORBI RBK53 do better job definitely.

Unless you are doing a lot of LAN based, time sensitive, file copying or multiple 4k+ media streaming, you don't need 500mbps on the wifi LAN. It would be nice but not a requirement. Actually, I stream at max, 4 x 4k streams [between Netflix, Disney+, Amazon Prime, Plex] simultaneously, as well as a handful of other devices watching YouTube, all on Google WIFI wLAN [again, no ethernet backhaul] around the house without effecting anything in the home office with no perceived degradation on the WIFI, no buffering on any device.

Not sure why you are saying that the X90 is pathetic with wifi backhaul. The link you posted did his speed tests over the internet, leaving his internet connection as a bottleneck. I'm positive if he did local wLan speed tests, he would have gotten much better speeds within 10-15 meters of an AP. His speeds did show a huge drop off at distance of 12 meters. Now, a few things about that. He's not testing a mesh. He is testing a speedtest from his mobile to one of the DECO's. If you are going any more than 10 meters, he should have dropped a second DECO for a real world test. That's what a mesh is for, to extend your wLAN as if it was one big wLAN. I would hazzard a guess, if he placed his 2 DECO's [especially the X90] 10 to 20 meters apart, then went another 5 to 10 meters with his phone, he would get near full speed test.

You don't test a mesh by putting each mesh point at max distance. You place them where they can talk to each other without issue. As far as my testing is concerned, that's how to get maximum performance from your Mesh, regardless of manufacturer. Obviously with ethernet backhaul, you don't need a huge wifi overlap and can space them out more, but the process is the same.

Also, the X90 is a tri-band device so it uses a full separate 5Ghz channel for backhaul, leaving your devices on the other 5Ghz and 2.4Ghz. Inter AP communication doesn't take away any speed from your clients.

Mc Love · 29-06-2021 2:47pm

I've a fritz box and the speed from it is half of what the office google wifi has. It as others have said quite remarkable the speed it provides

alec76 · 29-06-2021 6:57pm

RangeR wrote: »

Not sure why you are saying that the X90 is pathetic with wifi backhaul.
*******
Also, the X90 is a tri-band device so it uses a full separate 5Ghz channel for backhaul, leaving your devices on the other 5Ghz and 2.4Ghz. Inter AP communication doesn't take away any speed from your clients.

For this particular reason.
Results are very poor for TriBand System
This fellow previously had very same test with ORBI , Eero , ASUS and other TriBand systems, they all were placed at the same location/distance. Same phones ( iPhone 12 for WIFI 6 , Pixel 5 for WiFi5 ) and yet , managed to hit his Max Speeds (around 500 mbps from second AP).

And how
X60 did with the same scenario? ( 5:16 time stamp on YouTube video)
293 mbps for Pixel 5
310 mbps IPhone 12 ( WiFi 6)

X90 ( 5:30 YouTube)
298 Pixel 5
395 iPhone 12
I only could guess how badly they’ll score with 3 units, apparently they couldn’t handle wireless backhaul properly, even with dedicated backhaul Band

What I see is X90 definitely overpriced ,poorly designed, underperforming system , total waste of money .

I have ORBI mesh with 4 units , Ethernet backhaul ( 1 rbr50, 2 rbs50 , 1 rbs20 )
Rbk53 has dedicated 4x4 MIMO backhaul, which is enough to create gigabit wireless link between 2 APs , but if you have 4 units you must create 3 backhaul links and share ,so you’ll never have gigabit at every AP then. So I went for Ethernet .
It is old system , but reliable ,
every AP hitting up to 550 -610 mbps with Google Pixel 3a
and Up to 650 mbps with IPad Pro M1 , 3-4 meters away ( it is WiFi 5 speeds of course)
I wouldn’t recommend Orbi for everyone , it isn’t really plug n play , some IT/PRO users could find WUI quite poor , as for the rest , use TELNET if advanced settings required .

Mickeroo · 29-06-2021 8:33pm

alec76 wrote: »

Don't do this mistake.
Only NEST WiFi routers are worth buying IMO , stay away from Google WIFI router which is first generation.
Instead of buying
Nest WiFi router and Nest WiFi point go for 2 NEST WIFI ROUTERS.( second router could work as a point and has 2 Ethernet ports).
ps. Why wouldn't you go for EIR Smart WIFI altogether?
Cheapest option if your current Eir's router is F3000.

Sorry that was a typo, it was indeed the nest WiFi I am thinking of going for.

Hadn't considered the eir one, it looks good but I might not be with eir this time next year if you get me, I'm pretty invested in Google eco system with nest thermostats and Google home speakers all over the place so the nest WiFi appeals to me on that level too.

Thanks for the replies everyone, good info there

Clareman · 29-06-2021 8:38pm

I went down the Google rabbit hole and have the Nest system, I don't know how else to put it except it just works, nothing else to say, it works, does all the updates, bandwidth management, etc. etc. I am yet to experience any issues, I would say the longest part of the install for it was actually walking around to install the points

05-07-2021 5:07pm

Never needed one of these until now but more space and crap modem means I do now. It’s probably been covered but to save reading 1400 posts, is Nest Wi-Fi worth the premium over Google Wi-Fi for a situation where you’re only getting ~15Mb/s anyway and you already have a load of Home minis? Thanks.

Sheep Shagger · 05-07-2021 5:09pm

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Never needed one of these until now but more space and crap modem means I do now. It’s probably been covered but to save reading 1400 posts, is Nest Wi-Fi worth the premium over Google Wi-Fi for a situation where you’re only getting ~15Mb/s anyway and you already have a load of Home minis? Thanks.

Whilst a bit pricey I'd have to say yes for Nest WiFi - we have loads of smart stuff within the Google eco system.

05-07-2021 5:12pm

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

Whilst a bit pricey I'd have to say yes for Nest WiFi - we have loads of smart stuff within the Google eco system.

I’ve a good few bits myself and the doorbell is next on the list too. Is there something else I’m missing with the gen 2 vs the gen 1 apart from speed and each unit being a home speaker?

Sheep Shagger · 05-07-2021 5:17pm

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

I’ve a good few bits myself and the doorbell is next on the list too. Is there something else I’m missing with the gen 2 vs the gen 1 apart from speed and each unit being a home speaker?

That's pretty much it, we have 2 originals and for the back room (pushing WiFi to the back garden) on the gen 2s.

They're simple to set up and sit nicely in the home app, we've the doorbell, 2 hubs, a hub max and a good few homes and minis scattered around the house along with hue bulbs and smart sockets and sensors. A bit of an addiction.

New house came with a climote heating system, will replace that with a Nest thermostat soon when I see a deal.

Clareman · 05-07-2021 5:53pm

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Never needed one of these until now but more space and crap modem means I do now. It’s probably been covered but to save reading 1400 posts, is Nest Wi-Fi worth the premium over Google Wi-Fi for a situation where you’re only getting ~15Mb/s anyway and you already have a load of Home minis? Thanks.

I'd say yes but that's because the Nest is newer and will probably stay in software support for longer.

eddiem74 · 06-07-2021 7:23pm

So replaced my F2000 that was bridged to an Asus router with an F3000 and 2 Eir Mesh devices to try and address some dead spots.

After an initial settling period Device connectivity issues were resolved.

Some issues I am seeing.

1) When I look at the devices connected when logged into the admin page of the router there appears to not always be devices connected to a mesh device even if the device is in the same room. Sometimes no devices show connected as if that node is not being used. Mesh is using WiFi connectivity to F3000 although were setup via ethernet.

2) When I try to have a WhatsApp group call now it does not work, just times out and does not connect. If I try a 1to1 call that works fine. Also tried another phone and same issue so would appear not device dependent.

Irish Gunner · 17-08-2021 8:44am

Looking for a basic mesh for the parents

They are with Virgin and have the standard media hub with them and wifi ok around the house . However they have Desktop in the attic and its weak and tried the plugs and not great. Don't want to go overkill just something that they can connect and decent speeds etc just for browsing mainly

Also with mesh do you need to bridge virgin router or is it just as easy as plug and play or is it worth it?

Cheers

loyatemu · 17-08-2021 8:55am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117765474#Comment_117765474

I just have it (TPLink Deco Mesh) plugged into the Virgin hub with the WiFi on the hub turned off, no bridging or anything.

Others will say you need to bridge the modem to avoid double-NAT problems, but I haven't encountered any issues, assuming your parents aren't doing anything techy they should be fine.

Irish Gunner · 17-08-2021 9:36am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117765517#Comment_117765517

Thanks

One thing I forgot to mention is that I need good few ports on the mesh. They have android box and also virgin media player pligged in for Netflix so need a few ports

Saw some in the bricks and mortar stores like https://www.did.ie/tp-link-deco-e4-wi-fi-system-pack-of-2-white-decoe42pack-decoe42pack-prd but seems only 2 ports on this

I know I can add but any mesh systems with more than 2 ports?

I actually have a TP Link 5 port Gigabit desktop switch so I can use this and take it speed should remain the same

loyatemu · 17-08-2021 1:28pm

if you don't bridge it, you can continue to use the ports on the VM hub. You need one for the main mesh unit, so would have 3 remaining, plus any that are available on the mesh unit (depending on the model you go for).

Wifi mesh systems

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