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The 2021 All Ireland Senior Football Championship

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭John Doe1


    Unbelievable match. Neither team deserved to lose that.

    Thank god for Ulster football.

    As a Donegal fan, if we do get through the match against Tyrone, Monagahan will be a bigger task especially with the emotion which will propel them after losing their u20 captain and sponsor.

    I can only see Monagahan as Ulster champions at this moment.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭shockframe


    Brilliant game that.

    Monaghan looked like they were gone but saw it out.

    Tough on Armagh but a few errors at the end were crucial.

    The team who wins the other semi final will be slight favourites for the final I reckon.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,243 ✭✭✭C__MC


    Very hard to fault monaghan after the events of last 24 hours

    A dangerous team when written off, most tipped armagh for this.

    Donie Buckley a huge assist to monaghan.

    Great game, best game perhaps since 2013



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,243 ✭✭✭C__MC





  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,085 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    Go through all that....


    ...still keeps provincial championships.


    Why?


    ---

    Division 1 and division 2 play in the top tier for Sam. Seeded draw in the first round keeping the division 1 teams apart. Open draw thereafter.

    Division 3 and division 4 in the second tier. Same draw rules.

    And it's your league finishing position that matters. So those promoted to division 2 get into the All Ireland series.

    And that's it. Just a simple straightforward tournament played every second week throughout the summer.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,913 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    Today's game answers the question about Provincial championships, absent Covid that would have been a huge event with a full house. Donegal v Derry was similar and tomorrow's game and the Ulster final will all be competitive.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭Enquiring


    There is a better option available. We don't have to remove counties from the All Ireland championship to some unwanted losers league. This will end any chance of these counties being competitive in Gaelic football for ever more. Instead, we fund these counties, we give them an opportunity to increase their standards. This will work, investment leads to dramatic improvements. You want proof? Look at the Dublin hurlers, they were also rans, now after major investment, they're competing against top level opposition as we can see in the Leinster hurling final ongoing currently.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,600 ✭✭✭✭siblers


    Answers what questions? Ulster has always been the most competitive province, its the other 3 that are the problem



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,976 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Funding will not necessarily make counties compeditive. It would take decade's to see any results even if that happened.

    Funding is just part of the issue regarding being compeditive. Games is what you need to improve. No county can improve if they have 2-3 games a year. That is why tiering is critical and group stage at the start of the competition not at QF stage when it only benefits the 4-5 stronger teams that qualify regularly.

    You cannot have group stage for all teams unless you use a three tier system. In a two tier or single competition you will have too many dead rubbers the same as the Lenister and Munster Championship except for the odd surprise.

    As well you need groups of six for to have a meaningful number of games for all teams.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,286 ✭✭✭seligehgit


    Well said.

    Fantastic contest although I do not think it should have gone ahead given the tragic circumstances.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭Enquiring


    Not true. As we have seen with Dublin hurling, the results improve first at underage and that seeps through. Your option doesn't increase standards of teams demoted from the real championship. We have also seen this in hurling. Offaly got booted out and look how hard they are struggling to recover! They seem to be making some strides of a recovery with some additional funding.

    Games won't improve a team if it's against inferior opposition. Your solution is a permanent removal of counties from the real championship. Maybe that is what some want? While in hurling we're always bemoaning the lack of counties competing and trying to change that, in football, some are in favour of having a select few compete and eradicate the others.

    Instead of this, wouldn't it make more sense to increase the funding for 'weaker' counties so they can have a chance to compete? Standards will increase and we'll have a competition with many counties competing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 153 ✭✭ATR72


    Answers what? Are we already at the stage where games like Mayo and Leitrim are just forgotten until next year. Armagh and Monaghan are both Division 1 counties.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,976 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Offally did not get booted out t. Laois nearly took hey got relegated and rightly so as they were a shambles. Laois got promoted. Its only a matter of time before one of Wexford or Dublin make a mistake and they are relegated. By right there should be six in the Munster group as well and relegation decided on a playoff game. They were in the game for ages against Waterford today and experience over time will improve them I expect themselves and Offally to have a dog fight as to who will be promoted next year.

    So you think the Game Leitrim had against Mayo improved them this year, and Longford benefited from there game against Meath. Not to mention Wexford, Antrim, Fermanagh, Down, Limerick Clare, Tipperary and a few other counties. With only a back door none of these teams will come trough to the Super eights, if they do it will be for one season only and you can add Kildare, Meath, Roscommon and a few more to that list. A tiered system as I described earlier gives teams 5 game at there own level. it gives promotion and demotion between tiers. Funding may help the like of Meath, Cork and Kildare but it will do SFA for the rest of the counties.

    You are not excluded you have to earn the right to play at any division and have to earn the rig to stay there every year with the exception of the bottom division. What has helped Dublin hurling more than anything is that it gets 5 games every year in championship at the highest level. This helped Laois as well but COVID has interfeared with its progression

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭Enquiring


    Antrim have made great strides this year, some impressive results but now their development will be stunted as they're not going to be competing against the best. Constantly yoyoing does nothing to assist these counties improvements. The tiered system makes it very hard to make the step up or make a recovery as we've seen with Offaly. It just doesn't work.

    But is that something you'd be happy with? Introducing your system would mean many counties would never compete in the real championship again, you're ok with that? I'm not and I think many have the same view as me. We shouldn't be limiting the All Ireland to a select few, we should be allowing as many counties as possible to compete. And they can compete, many of the counties you mention have won provincial championships in the recent past. In fact, I think it's 22 counties who have won provincial championships since the 90's.

    Funding will very much help every county. People would have said they'd never see Dublin hurlers win a Leinster title or a national league. It would be similar to Wicklow winning a Leinster football championship but it happened. What helped Dublin was the serious investment in coaches which led to massive improvements at underage level and the development of players coming through to senior. This is how you improve standards in counties. The blueprint is there. We can also change the structure so every county has more games. These strategies have been proven and they work. Sending counties to the losers league has been proven to fail.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,243 ✭✭✭C__MC


    Easy solution is 16 team senior and junior championship, 4 groups of 4 etc

    Two teams go up on a yearly basis and two teams go down



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,085 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    Here we go. It's good to be back.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭Enquiring


    The solution is simple. You have every county involved in the All Ireland championship. You have groups of 4, top 2 in each group go through to the next round of the A championship, bottom 2 go to the B championship. This way everyone gets an opportunity to compete and every county get a large number of games.

    Obviously funding needs to be increased to many counties, other changes such as having the Provincial championships as stand alone competitions in the early season and a few other changes will need to be discussed but removing counties possibility to compete in the real championship needs to be taken off the table.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,426 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Due to the new boards layout I can no longer bold the piece of a quoted post I wish to focus on.

    The bit I would have in bold is "bottom 2 go to the B championship"

    I think this is exactly the reason the Tommy Murphy Cup failed and the new version of it will fail again.

    Once a team plays a few games at the top level there is desire then to go into some sort of B championship.

    It's over for them at that stage, they had a goal at the start of the season, and that goal is either meet or missed in the main competition, not in some B championship.

    Any revamped competition should have teams starting and finishing the season in the same competition.

    Some will get promoted to the higher competition, others will get relegated to the lower one, and some will stay the same.

    But each will stay it that competition until it's over.

    And before anyone comes on here talking about the Champions League and teams going down to the Europa league after the group stages, don't, it's a completely different dynamic with a billion euro\pound sport.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,426 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    And it seems the edit function does not work either

    "Once a team plays a few games at the top level there is NO desire then to go into some sort of B championship."

    Anyway who cares, between the week long outage and the inferior new product feck all are reading boards.ie anymore.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭Enquiring


    You have a point, there can be a way back into the A championship. We'll need to be inventive but the main point is that we should not segregate counties. That would end the chance of all counties competing at the top level permanently. Is anyone in favour of that?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,085 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    A way back in?


    Good Jesus, how many back doors do ya want?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭Enquiring


    Under that system that would be the only backdoor. So is 1 too much for you?

    As I said, we need to use our imagination to come up with a system that will allow all counties to compete in the real championship and to give every county more games. I don't see how anyone could be against this?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,426 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    But were Leitrim competing at "the top level" last week ?

    Were Sligo ?

    Were every team who went out and played a provincial championship and were hoping not to lose by more than 10, 15, 20 etc really competing at the top level ?

    In a tiered championship the way back into the top level is to win the level below it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 153 ✭✭ATR72


    The only solution that comes close to meeting all the competing interests is the one put out by Jim McGuinness. 4 Provincial champions + Tier 2 Champions and Top 11 in the League go into Senior.

    Still flawed but much better than the 2 proposals put out by the Fixtures Review. Flip the competitions so League is played after provincials and let counties get a series of games when weather is good.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,976 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Did you even read my proposal on a three tier championship. Somehow I think you did not. You are in a rabbit hole wanting everybody to compete, equal funding and more game. Only way teams can have more games is a group stage at the start. Only way you can make that compeditive is a tiered system with promotion and relegation. The big barrier is the provincial competitions and trying to fit them in. Only one is half compeditive four teams share 75-80% of the winning of the other three.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,426 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    There was a suggestion a few years back to even up the provincial championships so that there were the same amount of teams in each.

    It worked something like this.

    The losers of the two Leinster and one Ulster preliminary round games get parachuted into Munster and Connacht respectively thus leaving each province with eight teams.

    So for example if you are Carlow and you lose to Louth in Leinster preliminary, you then end up playing let's say Kerry in Munster quarter final, which you lose and then you go to the back door, where more than likely you lose.

    So three loses to get out of the championship, no wins and all that time wasted when you could be preparing for your club championship and getting ready for the harvest.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭Enquiring


    Were Tipperary? They got a bad beating, lets kick them out. But hang on, they were Munster champions last year. Roscommon have received some bad beatings, lets kick them out. But they're regular division 1 competitors, same with Kildare, Meath, Galway etc. They've all got bad beatings recently. Do you want a championship with 6 teams in it?

    I'm not saying all counties are competitive as it stands, I'm saying we fund them so they can develop structures and players so they do become competitive. That's the only solution. Removing them from the championship will permanently end the chance of those counties competing at the top level.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,085 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    Yes, 1 is too many.


    Using our imagination gave us the hurling championship. We should do everything we can to avoid emulating that.


    The (pre-Covid) League is perfect. It should remain as is and should be used as the entry point into the championship. My plan above is simple and straightforward, builds to a crescendo and gives well spaced out games.

    Notwithstanding covid, but moving the finals forward and the super 8s have ruined the pace of the championship.

    A lot of these format inputs seek to give teams too many opportunities and to my mind that devalues the championship. And any re-jigging that keeps provincials as entry points into the championship should be hurled into the sun.

    ---

    Anyways... COYBIB!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭Enquiring


    If you don't want to emulate the hurling championship, then you should be firmly against any tiered structure! The lack of counties competing in hurling has always been bemoaned. Why replicate that in football?

    Fund the so called 'weaker' counties, let them improve their standards. Give them a chance to compete. What is wrong with letting that happen?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,328 ✭✭✭Did you smash it


    3 tiers or dividing funding equally won’t help the basic problem that the all Ireland championship has stopped telling us anything new.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,833 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    An entertaining start to Kerry vs Derry....only downside Ref riding Derry in the first 17 minutes...not a good refereeing show.., blows for Derry players touching Kerry lads but Derry finding it hard to acquire valid frees from him.

    derry should have had a goal to go in front but a seriously casual finish by their 15 who sidefooted it instead of foot through it and they trail by 1.

    jesus, Henry absolutely ridiculously riding Derry here... pulling Derry for steps but ignoring the tug on the shirt 3 seconds earlier Jesus wept.

    Post edited by Strumms on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,913 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    Since the Ulster championship is not seeded at present, the preliminary round could be DOnegal v Tyrone and the loser of that game might end up in the Connacht final!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,426 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Tipperary won a provincial championship.

    Then they got hammered in the real competition when they came up against a quality team.

    The provincial championships are a terrible path to use to an All Ireland championship in this day and age.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,426 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    They have the chance to compete now yet are getting hammered.

    There is some stat out there about the number of championship games won by Div 3 and Div 4 teams against Div 1 or Div 2 teams.

    It's tiny.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭Enquiring


    So the Munster and Ulster champions from last year will be booted out. If it's every team that's been receiving beatings then every Leinster county will be booted out, every Munster county apart from Kerry, every Connaught county apart from Mayo. All that will be left is Donegal, Tyrone, Monaghan, Kerry, Mayo and Dublin. A 6 team championship but Dublin keep hammering all of the others so won't they have to be removed also?

    Now I don't know how Monaghan are doing it but all those other 5 breakaway counties have serious financial backing. Some more than others but why should other counties be punished just because they haven't got the resources available to them? It's clear that major change is needed in terms of capping spending and giving counties access to appropriate funding. Until that is done, removing counties from the real championship needs to be halted, especially because a lot of the calls for the removal of other counties comes from the big spenders.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭Enquiring


    No, right now they're not competing on a level pitch. Even that up and let's give that a go.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The dream team of Canning and Carney trying their best to spoil the game for viewers



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,034 ✭✭✭Swaine


    That's Kevin McStay not Carney. Game is on the BBC too.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Thanks Swaine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,857 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    One of these double jeopardy cases, Tyrone don't pay the full price though



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,269 ✭✭✭threeball


    Every game involving Tyrone is inevitably a nasty spiteful affair. Love the dig after the ball, the verbals, dropping the knees on a grounded man. Its brutal to watch.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,167 ✭✭✭✭sligeach


    Penalty missed by Donegal. Justice done.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,167 ✭✭✭✭sligeach


    Shouldn't have been a penalty. There was a defender covering. Stupid decision from the Tyrone defender. All he was doing was stopping a point for 30 seconds, at least conceding a free and a probable yellow card. It turned out to be worse, but Tyrone lucky the penalty was missed. Still have the black card though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,034 ✭✭✭Swaine


    That's totally accidental. Very very harsh. 2 fouls and he's off while we have corner backs with 6/7 fouls a game getting off scott free.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,269 ✭✭✭threeball


    Silly from Murphy. A lad of his experience doing that is unforgivable



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,167 ✭✭✭✭sligeach


    Donegal down to 14. Murphy sent off. 2 late tackles.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,633 ✭✭✭theoneeyedman


    McQuillan having a nightmare here,


    A penalty when it shouldn't have been, another one for Burns tackle not given, Murphy a yellow for nothing and then Murphy a black instead of probably a straight red.


    Absolute brain fart from Murphy, so dumb on a yellow card.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,441 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hammer Archer


    Some finish to the 2020 minor final. Derry were a point up but their defender fumbled a short kick out and left Kerry with an open goal. Then less than a minute later, Derry got a penalty for a foot block and scored it and won by a point.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,857 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    So re Murphy the right outcome in the end...



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