Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all! We have been experiencing an issue on site where threads have been missing the latest postings. The platform host Vanilla are working on this issue. A workaround that has been used by some is to navigate back a page or two to re-sync the thread and this will then show latest posts. Thanks, Mike.

United Ireland Poll - please vote

1143144146148149220

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,751 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Why depend on a tweet...did a quick google and found his full statement on the publication of the report. Where he doesn't mention the 35b at all.


    Sinn Féin publish 'Economic Benefits of a United Ireland' discussion paper - Pearse Doherty TD | Sinn Féin (sinnfein.ie)


    It also states this:

    Of course, many of these issues will be subject to negotiations between the British and Irish governments. The purpose of this document is not to pre-empt, predict or predetermine the outcome of those negotiations. Nor is it to focus on the narrow issue of the subvention. Irish unity and the opportunities it presents are much greater than the question of deficits.''



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,285 ✭✭✭jh79


    How does it show it is affordable? The disputed 35bn (FDI won't match the republic due to poor educational outcomes in NI) isn't offset against any costs.

    Social Welfare alone will cost an extra 24bn over 8 years! We still have 8 years of a 5% increase in the standard rate of tax to cover the subvention.

    Still have to factor in PS pay harmonization and increasing inward investment to 20% of GDP.

    Can SF achieve the required 2% cut in public expenditure in NI?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,713 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    read the conclusion. in fact go read the report. It's got all the info in it. then rant at your pal Hübner who you seem to mention alot


    Then just keep continuing to ignore the fact that IT ISNT A PLAN and that the NATION NEEDS TO DISCUSS WHAT SHAPE A UI WILL TAKE before waffling on about costs and jobs. you know - the same **** I posted earlier.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,285 ✭✭✭jh79



    “Can we afford partition? No, we cannot. Can we afford Irish unity? Of course, we can. How can I say that? I rely on a peer reviewed international report which modelled Irish unity in a post Brexit scenario and indicated that in the first eight years post-unity, the benefits to the economy would be €23.5 billion, north and south.”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,713 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    whats your point exactly? the report says 35



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,751 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,285 ✭✭✭jh79


    You claim I shouldn't use peer reviewed reports on the costs yet have no criticism for SF for doing the same with the benefits. What's the difference?

    Should SF be using figures if they don't agree with the scenarios used in the paper?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,285 ✭✭✭jh79


    Must be a typo or the sterling figure. The 8 year time span and timing, it has to be the Hubner Report.

    See my reply to Francie.



  • Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭Whatcar212


    You mean like all polls ever that ask people if they will pay more? Same as asked about higher taxes to fund free health care? No one ever wants to pay more. That's why it is a farcical argument.

    Still no reason to use ROI, regardless of your 'excuse'.

    And the your view that we don't give a **** about NI is purely your confirmation bias, and seeing what you want to see. I see far more in favour than against so it is subjective. (I can point at the massive majority in favour of a UI when there is no tax increase to prove my point, just as you use the tax increase version for your own)

    Until you have definitive proof your view is the view of the majority then please don't claim it is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,713 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    if the scenario isnt to their liking, but yet still shows benefits then why shouldnt they? Are you making mountains out of molehills?



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,751 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Where did I 'claim' you 'shouldn't use peer reviewed reports'? I have said all of them should be read and that none of them are 'definitive' and they shouldn't be presented as such.


    Why do you guys always misrepresent and lie?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,713 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    you still dont have a point though. the report outlines that it believes a UI in its most basic form wouldnt lose the country money in the longterm and SF supported that idea. Nothing new in that. Is it because you dont like the idea that a report might back a UI? You were at one stage pretending SF had something to do with it.



  • Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Serious holes being blown in credibility being blown here



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,285 ✭✭✭jh79



    Let me guess, Pearse isn't guilty of that with his quote?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,751 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Seriously...I'm lost, I have no idea what point you are making.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,285 ✭✭✭jh79


    The report doesn't say that. It only looks at revenue without looking at spending. If we are spending more than 4.4bn (35/8) a year on unification we are losing money.

    You complained I talk about it too much😂, of course I do. The fact that "Friends of SF" commissioned a report that ended up only showing tiny benefits for the Republic is hilarious.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,713 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    the report doesn't say that? They need to rewrite their conclusion then.

    "NIROI shows positive net effects on output for NI as well as for the ROI. The bulk of positive net effects are centered in NI, and this was to be expected given the gap in economic development between the ROI and NI. Exports from NI to GB increase by as much as 43.8 billion Euro by 2025, while total NI exports increase by as much as 49.4 billion Euro. Imports into NI from GB increase by 22.2 billion Euro, between 2018 and 2025, while imports from the ROI into NI increase by as much as 560 million Euro. Total imports into NI increase by as much as 49.4 billion Euro, by 2025. While total exports from the ROI are predicted to decrease by 1.8 billion Euro and total imports into the ROI to decrease by 1.7 billion Euro, total trade creation is still expected to be positive, accumulating to 81.1 billion Euro by 2025. The model also suggests unification will raise GDP in NI by 2.1 to 2.6 billion Euro in the year the policy is implemented, depending on the extent to which NI government expenditure is cut and the amount of FDI attracted by the new tax regime. These gains could accumulate to as much as 25.3 billion Euro in the first eight years following unification. GDP in the ROI could rise by 30 million to 152 million Euro in the year of policy implementation, again subject to the same assumptions. Across the first 8 years of unification, GDP gains in the ROI could rise from 10.3 billion Euro to 18.5 billion Euro. In total, Irish unification could boost all-island GDP in the first eight years by as much as 35.6 billion Euro."


    weird theres no mention of 'friends of SF' in that report (Report commissioned by K.R.B. Consulting). you'd know that if you had read the report and not the indo



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,751 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    When has the country 'that has done well enough' ended up in surplus and with no debt?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,285 ✭✭✭jh79


    Sorry you've lost me.

    No debt? Not something I've checked but doesn't every country have debts?

    Will this "New Ireland" not have debts or something?

    With regards surpluses, we've had a few. Isn't that where the rainy day fund came from than was diverted to pay part of the COVID response?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,238 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Oh, dearie me, first they tried to bomb people into a united Ireland, now they want to take away their jobs and livelihoods for a united Ireland.

    The pathetic nature of it all. If there is one thing to learn from Covid - petty nationalism means nothing.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,238 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    There is at least one thing you have in common with Trump - you criticise liberals without being able to explain what exactly they stand for.



  • Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Trump being man whom slashed tax for the super rich and ramped up tax on lower paid.....a textbook liberial



    Tell us again,why yous think people paid below a living wage,should pay more tax and how yous propose to take blood from that particualr turnip



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,760 ✭✭✭dudley72


    Why would they not own a house? even with a housing shortage every day of the week people are buying and selling houses all over Ireland. I think you are "brainwashed by propaganda"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,751 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    You in misrepresentation mode again blanch?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,238 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    I believe in a simple principle. Everyone should contribute something to society out of what they earn. It is an important part of belonging to society and to show that nothing comes for free. Those who earn more should pay more and those who have more should pay more. Generally, our income tax system does that, so does our LPT, but we are short on other taxes and also those at the bottom pay nothing.

    I would increase the minimum wage and all social welfare payments by 5% and at the same time introduce a new rate of 5% USC on all income. Nobody would be worse off but the symbolism of contribution makes it worthwhile.



  • Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    They will not earn enough to pay rent and save a deposit?


    Large percent of People on the average wage wont get a mortgage big enough to buy a house in dublin.....large percent of people on mean wage wont get a mortgage to buy a house in most of the state.....no amount of for-profit building will solve this.....liberials are blinded by market idoligy to solve issue,same idoligy has led us to present position...it wont solve it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,238 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Not at all, you have consistently said that the public service needs to be rationalised in a united Ireland context, that means pay cuts and compulsory redundancies, as well as lost opportunities for promotion. And you expect these new victims of SF to vote for a united Ireland. Unbelievable silliness.



  • Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    People on min wage,are significantly below the rate for living wage,a 5% increase wont bring em close to it even




    How do you propose to take money off people whom earn below a living wage without plunging em further into poverty??


    Symbolism takes noone out of poverty,no amount of liberal happy clapping is gonna change it,what yous proposing is stick knife into poorest,while simutamously liberials want tax breaks for billion euro investment funds,you goys have yous prioirities wrong



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,760 ✭✭✭dudley72


    Why would they not earn enough? I think you will find plenty of people will go to school & college, get a good job and buy a house.

    Some will do none of the above and complain they don't get a house handed to them for free. It's been the same for many years and I don't expect that to change in the future either.

    In the last month 12 houses went up for sale in new estate in my area, all bought by young families. Great bonus to the area.



  • Advertisement
  • Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    If an average person cant afford to buy an average house....whats point of perpetuating this system,it evidently deosnt work for average person



    We cant even gaurantee healthcare or water,which should be free as a to my eyes are human rights,but liberials in ffg demand they be privatised and used to gouge money off folks,to fund tax breaks for billion euro funds and pay to fight apples tax case in europe



Advertisement