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Murder at the Cottage | Sky

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  • Registered Users Posts: 152 ✭✭Caledonia


    It wasn’t shambolic. Just a case without a break. GSOC found no corruption. As for the comparison to the Kildare case, how long was that unsolved for?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Funny to see how the big media fish, the Sky and Netflix sharks, bring along with them the schools of clinging fish, like the ever needy Sinead O Connor and Fintan 'here's an article about Bailey and why no one should write articles about Bailey' O Tool.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,855 ✭✭✭sporina


    did he show any remorse for beating up Joules? watched all of it but can't recall



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Not only that, in episode 5 of the West Cork podcast, a Garda at the scene (Martin Malone) noted that when Bailey turned up the following morning at Sophie's cottage, he was wearing a long dark coat. Surely to God this coat at the centre of things would be liberally covered in blood if he was the murderer and he wouldn't be as stupid to show up in front of the Gardai wearing it?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,744 ✭✭✭Brock Turnpike


    "It takes two to tango" was a line he used.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,744 ✭✭✭Brock Turnpike




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭chicorytip


    I don't think he (Dwyer) was telling lies in relation to the particular issue of the coat. I saw the Netflix documentary and, as far as I can recall, he was expressing his strong belief that Bailey burned the coat he wearing at the time of Sophie's murder on the following morning of the 24th of December. The fact that Bailey was subsequently seen dressed in a long black coat at the Christmas Day swim in Schull is of no great significance, I believe. As I said, it is quite possible he owned more than one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭MoonUnit75


    I think the French said there were 40-50 injuries on her body, not that the block was used 40 times. Might be a translation problem. The block surface is so porous and brittle that you probably wouldn't be able to get a clean swab from it. Unless the killer left a small flap of skin on it or lots of their own blood you are unlikely to get a trace on it I'd think.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭MoonUnit75


    The scratches were noticed when he was paying for something at a shop, then two gardai saw them while doing door to door enquiries. He wasn't arrested or an official suspect at the time as far as I know. I still can't imagine gardai knocking on your door asking where you were at the time a crime was committed and asking to take a photo of your hands. Maybe now with every phone having a camera, but not in 1996 where one of the gardai would have to know in advance to bring a film camera and then ask for consent from someone who was not a suspect.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭MoonUnit75


    Buckets come in more than one size. We have one for taking clothes from the washing machine that would probably fit two of those coats.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭MoonUnit75


    A couple of decades down the line and relationships change, witnesses might be more forthcoming.



  • Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭HoliyMoliy


    My own memory is a little hazy on this but was he not interviewed while he had the scratches? If so and you suspect that this is an oddity would it not be normal practice to take a photograph.



  • Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭HoliyMoliy


    After 24 years the memory gets very hazy. Especially when it comes to timelines of events.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭MoonUnit75


    His first interview was in February as far as I remember. Dwyer visited him at some stage in January, Bailey said he gave him mince pies that had already gone bad, and that was just to 'discuss the case'. Bailey never denied he had scratches on his hands and arms though so I don't know why there's so much fuss about it. He said in the RTE interview that he wore long sleeves in the pub on the night of the murder and that's why four people who sat watching him playing the bodhran said they saw no scratches, after he had cut down the christmas tree. As far as I remember the witnesses all said he had his sleeves rolled up while he played.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭MoonUnit75


    Right, but there's plenty of people in jail for crimes in the 70s on children where they were only tried in recent years.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    He was not under arrest so they probably couldn't take photos. I think you can refuse to be photographed even when arrested and they have to invoke a statute to force you. I may be wrong there. Strange Jules didn't take photos of the scratches.



  • Registered Users Posts: 310 ✭✭drumm23


    Dwyer has about as much credibility as Bailey at this stage - which is a big part of why the whole thing has become a perhaps unsolvable-mess.

    The gate had blood on it and, though the evidence that could be gathered *at the time* was minimal, disposing of it while it was still an active investigation was just more ineptitude. I mean FFS, stick it somewhere safe just in case; it's not that hard an ask.

    "Should we take a photo of Bailey's scratches" - nah, sure why bother, just scribble some stuff on that drawing... 😵

    1️⃣ If Bailey did it then the main reason he is free is because of Garda ineptitude.

    2️⃣ If Bailey didn't do it then the main reason we have not caught the killer is because of Garda ineptitude.

    This was no "mastermind" killing and was solvable with reasonable detective work.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,281 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    On the subject of scratches, I'm going to excerpt this is from the DPP report as I think it puts to bed the whole issue of the scratches:

    DPP’s Report | (wordpress.com)

    1. Lack of Forensic Evidence linking Ian Bailey to the murder scene.

    Sophie Toscan Du Plantier was killed by a person who battered her to death with a rock and a concrete block on 23 December 1996. Some fifty wounds were inflicted upon her. Photographs of the deceased show her body as being scratched by briars in the area. The Gardaí suggest that Ian Bailey is the murderer and was scratched on his hands and arms by the briars during the struggle. No forensic evidence linking Ian Bailey to the scene was found despite the fact that the murder of Sophie Toscan Du Plantier was the direct result of an apparently frenzied and furious attack upon her in a briar-strewn location. If in fact the attack was carried out in a frenzied manner one might have expected that the assailant would have left traces of blood, skin, clothing fibres or hair at the scene. No such material was discovered. Bailey willingly gave his fingerprints and a sample of his blood to the Gardaí for analysis and examination.

    10. Scratches.

    The Gardaí suggest that Bailey was scratched on his hands and arms during the course of killing Sophie Toscan du Plantier. Her body was scratched and they suggest that her killer must also have been scratched during the struggle. Bailey has consistently stated that he received scratches by climbing up a twenty-foot tree with a bow saw in one hand, cutting the top off the tree and pulling it down through the branches. Bailey is supported in his explanation as to how he got the scratches by Jules Thomas and her daughters Virginia and Saffron...

    Dr. Louise Barnes, a dermatologist (skin specialist) closely observed Bailey some five days after the murder. She states “at no time, did he strike one as being suspicious. As a keen observer of peoples appearance due to my profession I certainly did not notice any marks or injuries to his face or hands.” Denis O’Callaghan saw Bailey on 24 December 1996 (the day after the murder) and he noticed multiple light scratches on Bailey’s arms. Such light scratches are not consistent with cuts by razor like thorns...

    On 27 December 1996 Gda. Bart O’Leary alleges that he noticed that the back of both of Bailey’s hands were cut. Both were totally covered in what he thought were briar marks. On 28 December 1996 Gda. O’Leary asked Bailey how he cut his hands and Bailey explained while cutting the top off a tree to make a Christmas tree. Bailey then took off his jacket and Gda. O’Leary noticed that the scratches were on the backs of both hands and up as far as both his elbows. Bailey’s willingness to assist the Gardaí is indicative of innocence. He made no attempt to conceal the scratch marks. As distinct from his observation the previous day Gda. O’Leary says that they were not cuts only scratches and they were healing up...

    It is interesting to note that the Gardaí did not ask Bailey to show the scratches to a medical or any other expert witness in order to obtain an opinion as to causation. This request was not made despite the fact that Bailey though under suspicion at the time was prepared to co-operate with the Gardaí. (Statement of Gda. Bart O’Leary refers – re: scratches and Bailey’s willingness to show them to persons in authority)... Bailey’s explanation for the scratches is plausible, consistent and is supported by other direct and credible evidence.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,417 ✭✭✭FAILSAFE 00


    Interesting listening to Maire Farrell interview for the West Cork podcast.

    She came across believable. *I am suprised. From watching both documentaries I thought she was an attention seeker like Bailey.

    You get the sense she started with good intentions but then dug herself deep into a right mess and with each statement, interview, court, media, etc she was digging herself deeper into the hole.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,245 ✭✭✭nc6000


    Just watching episode one again and it starts with Shirley Fosters' statement on the morning she discovered Sophie's body.

    Was Sophie due to fly home on the 23rd or the 24th?

    I thought it was odd how the statement mentions passing Sophie's car but doesn't mention the car wasn't supposed to be there but should have been back at the airport.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 288 ✭✭EdHoven


    Before the Boards update debacle I posted about that. If she was booked on the return flight to the one she came on (EI521 EI520) she would have had to leave the cottage at 4 a.m. that's what makes me think she went to the gate to open it for a fast getaway in the morning and got in an argument about the gate. Maybe she had brought the kindling axe for protection and the assailant picked up the block in self-defence, to begin with.

    The block is described as 20kg but plainly in the photos it is a cavity block which wouldn't weigh as much as a solid one so I don't think you'd need to be superman to lift it.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]



    why would she bring axe for protection? protection from what?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    "but doesn't mention the car wasn't supposed to be there but should have been back at the airport" How would Shirley have known that then?


    *Is anyone having problems quoting, the down arrow on the quote doesn't work for me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 288 ✭✭EdHoven


    Hmm, I'm a petite person alone in the middle of nowhere. I leave my house to go down a lane to open the gate at midnight. Should I bring something with me just in case? No, that would be stupid. What are the chances of being murdered. "Merde!".



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,456 ✭✭✭FishOnABike




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,245 ✭✭✭nc6000


    I was thinking maybe they had spoken or it was known she was only over for a brief visit and would be going home for Christmas. Then it would be reasonable to assume her seeing the car still there would be a surprise.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,060 ✭✭✭Thespoofer


    In regards to no DNA belonging to Bailey found at the scene , if not his, was there any other persons DNA found on the briars etc ( besides STDP obviously ) ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,245 ✭✭✭nc6000


    I understand they found DNA but haven't been able to match it to anyone.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,750 ✭✭✭oceanman


    find the match for that DNA and you have most probably found your murderer...



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,904 ✭✭✭mgn


    That's the way it normally works, case closed for once and for all.

    Post edited by mgn on


This discussion has been closed.
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