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Random Wrestling Thoughts (Part 2)

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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,085 ✭✭✭✭J. Marston


    When did punching get so shìt in wrestling? In the past you had people like Austin, Jarrett, Lawler, Bret etc who were able to throw fast, hard looking punches. Even The Rock's flamboyant punches looked harder than the striking you see in wrestling today. When Jarrett did a post-Mania run for a couple of weeks a few years ago it was shocking just how good his punches looked compared to everyone else.

    Now it's all that rapid-fire punch spot that look like they would tickle more than hurt. Like Rollins and Cesaro at the start of this...

    https://streamable.com/4efruw


  • Registered Users Posts: 39,366 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    J. Marston wrote: »
    When did punching get so shìt in wrestling? In the past you had people like Austin, Jarrett, Lawler, Bret etc who were able to throw fast, hard looking punches. Even The Rock's flamboyant punches looked harder than the striking you see in wrestling today. When Jarrett did a post-Mania run for a couple of weeks a few years ago it was shocking just how good his punches looked compared to everyone else.

    Now it's all that rapid-fire punch spot that look like they would tickle more than hurt. Like Rollins and Cesaro at the start of this...

    https://streamable.com/4efruw

    In a word J it’s training. You mentioned Jarrett who had the good fortune to be around Jerry lawler, who whatever else you want to say about him, to quote the late great nick Bockwinkel , “the man throws a hell of a punch.”


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,143 ✭✭✭✭B.A._Baracus


    Geez those punches were horrible in that video.
    You'd expect two lads with two weeks worth of training to do that.

    But, I've noticed a change in wwe over the last few years... like everyone knows the old way of go snug for TV and light for house shows (sure even Austin tweeting to punk saying lay it in kid its tv years ago) but wwe don't do that anymore. Its light and soft all the time now. They don't want anyone getting hurt anymore as they are no longer a wrestling promotion but a content creator.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,085 ✭✭✭✭J. Marston


    After watching that video again Bayley may have the worst finisher in wrestling today. What is that even supposed to be?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,512 ✭✭✭savemejebus


    J. Marston wrote: »
    After watching that video again Bayley may have the worst finisher in wrestling today.

    cough...judas effect....cough


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  • Registered Users Posts: 39,366 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    Ten years ago today CM punk had some things he wanted to get off his chest and delivered the promo which has become known as the pipebomb.


  • Registered Users Posts: 39,366 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    Also it appears from a tweet from chyna’s Twitter account that Nikki Bella said something in a video which was disrespectful. Is her Twitter account run by that manager of hers from the documentary ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,439 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Geez those punches were horrible in that video.
    You'd expect two lads with two weeks worth of training to do that.

    But, I've noticed a change in wwe over the last few years... like everyone knows the old way of go snug for TV and light for house shows (sure even Austin tweeting to punk saying lay it in kid its tv years ago) but wwe don't do that anymore. Its light and soft all the time now. They don't want anyone getting hurt anymore as they are no longer a wrestling promotion but a content creator.


    Well, no, they don't want guys getting hurt. For the last 6 years, the company has been battling a class action lawsuit over CTE. About 14 years ago, an employee of theirs killed his family and then himself, with CTE being put forward as a major contributing factor.



    So it doesn't really surprise me that WWE has their talent work light. They're probably just hedging their bets not to get sued by another crop of guys in a decade or two's time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 39,366 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    briany wrote: »
    Well, no, they don't want guys getting hurt. For the last 6 years, the company has been battling a class action lawsuit over CTE. About 14 years ago, an employee of theirs killed his family and then himself, with CTE being put forward as a major contributing factor.



    So it doesn't really surprise me that WWE has their talent work light. They're probably just hedging their bets not to get sued by another crop of guys in a decade or two's time.

    You can work in a way that doesn’t get wrestlers hurt, which I think all us of here would agree with, but going completely the opposite way isn’t the answer either.

    Was CTE from punches or was it reckless dives onto his head and unprotected chair shots that ****ed up benoit ?

    It didn’t help that wwe rings used to be like concrete and it was the repetitive bumps that were the issue not punching because wrestlers used to know how to punch as has been said many times here.

    My huge worry for the current and future generations of wrestlers is the risk of neck and spine injuries due to the ridiculous dives and other stuff they do which add nothing to the match but potential injury to the wrestlers.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭Blue_Dabadee


    10 years ago today CM Punk Pipebomb promo.

    https://twitter.com/CMPunk/status/1409044445312528387?s=19


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,143 ✭✭✭✭B.A._Baracus


    briany wrote: »
    Well, no, they don't want guys getting hurt. For the last 6 years, the company has been battling a class action lawsuit over CTE. About 14 years ago, an employee of theirs killed his family and then himself, with CTE being put forward as a major contributing factor.



    So it doesn't really surprise me that WWE has their talent work light. They're probably just hedging their bets not to get sued by another crop of guys in a decade or two's time.

    There's working light and then working light that looks also sh*te. The rollins / cesaro punches cannot be justified.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,439 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Itssoeasy wrote: »
    Was CTE from punches or was it reckless dives onto his head and unprotected chair shots that ****ed up benoit ?


    The CTE lawsuit against WWE has been brought by a wide variety of former talent including both Hebners, who, apart from maybe the odd Dusty finish, were probably not taking much punishment. So, if they're part of the case, you'd figure anyone who's ever been concussed from a stiff punch could easily be part of a future one.



    It's understandable how chair shots and diving headbutts and other high risk moves would be thought of as the biggest candidates for possible head injury, but looking back to Stone Cold's recollection of Summerslam 1998 where Undertaker accidentally knocked Austin out for a brief moment, we can see how head injuries can happen from completely routine bits of in-ring business, never mind from a simulated punch that accidentally connects.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,085 ✭✭✭✭J. Marston


    That Punk promo was cool at the time but it spawned a litany of shìte imitations.


  • Registered Users Posts: 39,366 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    J. Marston wrote: »
    That Punk promo was cool at the time but it spawned a litany of shìte imitations.

    And the shout out to colt cabana has aged poorly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 39,366 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    I was just watching clips of wwe on YouTube and there was segment from when triple h was doing his Greg Valentine cosplay, but damn if the big gold belt is such a good looking belt. It just says worlds. Champion.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,143 ✭✭✭✭B.A._Baracus


    Randomly came across a youtube video of wrestlers who lost their gear before a show ( video is here )

    Now of course if your gear is black trucks with a logo you can easily borrow someone elses gear who wears plain black trunks. But say your usual gear is more custom - Like take RVD back in the day. Known for those awesome airbrushed singlets. So let's say it's a tv taping and if he goes out there with a borrowed black singlet it'll look bad. So why not have a promo with RVD backstage with jeans and one of his tshirts on and he gets jumped.... both men brawl to the ring... here we go the scheduled match is on.

    On a house show you can get more away with it of course. But then again, everyone has a phone these days :p


  • Registered Users Posts: 39,366 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    Happy(?) twentieth anniversary to the buff bagwell vs Booker T WCW main event on Monday night raw from Tacoma, Washington which while the match itself in hindsight wasn’t that bad, the whole look of it and the crowd in Tacoma weren’t going to go for it meant it was set up to fail.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,143 ✭✭✭✭B.A._Baracus


    I was talking with my best mate earlier (also a wrestling fan) and we got on to the topic of Christopher Daniels and he reminds me what ol' Chris said in an RF shoot back in the day.

    Feinstein asked daniels what his thoughts about men wrestling women were. To which Daniels responded with "what's the best finish to a man wrestling a woman? A punch to the face" :pac: (ie, women have no place wrestling a man)

    Couldn't be getting away with saying that now lol.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,117 ✭✭✭The White Wolf


    I was talking with my best mate earlier (also a wrestling fan) and we got on to the topic of Christopher Daniels and he reminds me what ol' Chris said in an RF shoot back in the day.

    Feinstein asked daniels what his thoughts about men wrestling women were. To which Daniels responded with "what's the best finish to a man wrestling a woman? A punch to the face" :pac: (ie, women have no place wrestling a man)

    Couldn't be getting away with saying that now lol.

    To play devil's advocate most of these matches I've seen, they do everything but a simple punch up.


  • Registered Users Posts: 39,366 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    The great American bash 2008 was on the network live channel tonight and caught bits of it, and I don’t think I’ve rewatched 2008 in any detail since I watched it live but it was an interesting card.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,143 ✭✭✭✭B.A._Baracus


    To play devil's advocate most of these matches I've seen, they do everything but a simple punch up.

    Yeah. Try to squeeze more out of it than doing the obvious.
    Sure there's a big debate over in the Current Affairs forum about a transgendered (man to woman) being allowed to compete in weightlifting women's division at Tokyo games. The general opinion is that it's not fair.

    Like, we all know wrestling is predetermined or 'fake' if you will :p - but putting a 100 pound woman against a 250lbs so called jacked superstar is not the best move. Because, in the realm of wrestling, anything more than him grabbing her by the hair and punching her for the pin would make said male wrestler come off in a bad light. Not to mention in this day and age a man "fighting" a woman wouldn't go down well.

    WWE are right not to book women vs men imo.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,727 ✭✭✭✭CastorTroy


    Sure Kenny and others have had matches against kids and dolls with the kids and dolls holding their own. :)


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,592 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    Yeah. Try to squeeze more out of it than doing the obvious.
    Sure there's a big debate over in the Current Affairs forum about a transgendered (man to woman) being allowed to compete in weightlifting women's division at Tokyo games. The general opinion is that it's not fair.

    Like, we all know wrestling is predetermined or 'fake' if you will :p - but putting a 100 pound woman against a 250lbs so called jacked superstar is not the best move. Because, in the realm of wrestling, anything more than him grabbing her by the hair and punching her for the pin would make said male wrestler come off in a bad light. Not to mention in this day and age a man "fighting" a woman wouldn't go down well.

    WWE are right not to book women vs men imo.
    Agree with this to a point, but I have no problem with the likes of Chyna, Kong or Havok beating up smaller male jobber/comedy wrestlers.

    One thing that has become noticeable in the last years though is that the average height of male wrestlers has decreased and the overall size of female wrestlers increased.. if you stick a modern light heavyweight in the ring with a bigger female wrestler the size difference isn't as noticeable as it was years ago, it's getting easier to suspend disbelief watching matches other than the above mentioned 'Amazons'


  • Registered Users Posts: 39,366 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    Agree with this to a point, but I have no problem with the likes of Chyna, Kong or Havok beating up smaller male jobber/comedy wrestlers.

    One thing that has become noticeable in the last years though is that the average height of male wrestlers has decreased and the overall size of female wrestlers increased.. if you stick a modern light heavyweight in the ring with a bigger female wrestler the size difference isn't as noticeable as it was years ago, it's getting easier to suspend disbelief watching matches other than the above mentioned 'Amazons'

    That’s a great point about male wrestlers weights being lighter now(or at least announced weights) during the light heavyweight title match at KOTR 2001 with Jeff hardy and x pac, X pac is announced at 219 lbs and in 2015 Seth Rollins at MITB against ambrose in the WWE world heavyweight title match is announced as 217 lbs.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,727 ✭✭✭✭CastorTroy


    There were a couple of moments this week where I was wondering why the ref didn't call what he saw to finish the match.

    In AEW Dark (maybe was Elevation) Riho was fighting Amber Nova, I think, and she pinned Amber but the ref said Amber got her shoulder up when she clearly didn't and hadn't even attempted to. That should've been reason enough to end the match rather than continue.

    In NXT Sarray fought Gigi Dolan (Priscilla Kelly) and had some kind of submission locked in. Gigi tapped Sarray's hand and said something and she broke the hold and the match continued. The ref would've seen the tap.

    In both cases it would've been the same winner anyway



  • Registered Users Posts: 39,366 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    Right after briefly making a tit of myself a month ago(which brother lithium93 stopped me from going further) by writing a post about the tenth anniversary of the MITB PPV where punk won the title from cena. Well today it is indeed the tenth anniversary of what at the time was an important moment in wrestling, and given the offerings WWE have served us up in the intervening ten years, it’s gotten better. I remember this was on sky sports and not sky box office and my god the pop CM punk got in his home town was unreal and the booing of cena to the point where you couldn’t hear his music seems like something WWE can’t do now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,368 ✭✭✭Riddle101


    Hard to believe the Summer of Punk was 10 years ago now. I still remember watching Money in the Bank 2011 at my friend's house and being completely blown away by the match. Still feels like it happened only recently.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,143 ✭✭✭✭B.A._Baracus


    Yeah where is the time going.

    Geez I am just remembering some old memories of wrestling now. Staying up late to watch Survivor Series 1994 on Sky Sports (First live wwe ppv shown in UK I do believe) to watching the Royal Rumble 2000 on an hour tape delay ... thank you very much Channel 4! lol.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,439 ✭✭✭✭briany


    The best (or my favourite, rather) promos in wrestling today are, by far, the ones Jim Cornette does on his thought-enemies during his weekly podcasts. Not even close.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,085 ✭✭✭✭J. Marston


    The Magic Killer is such a shíte move.



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