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Car park access issue for apartment

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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    You dont even have to drive with it though.

    Pull up to the gate. Stick the fake plate over your own one (Some sort of magnetic setup of some kind). get out of the way and let the scanner scan it. Gate opens. Throw it back in the boot. I bet you could even make one out of a bit of a whiteboard.

    Or if you have a few quid, go with a setup like James Bonds ion Goldfinger. Rotating plate :)



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,115 ✭✭✭✭Caranica


    The management company's only relationship is with the owner. They have disabled access to any vehicles registered at the owner's address. Who lives there is irrelevant



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,467 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    Will the management company allow affected tenants store individual wheelie bins or their own communal wheelie bins (or a mix of individual and communal bins) in a public area of the development and access for a waste disposal company or companies to empty them?

    If you and the other affected tenants are getting nowhere trying to deal with letting agencies or the property management company you might get further trying to talk directly with officers or members of the owner management company. The OMC register of directors and secretaries and the register of members are availablefrom the OMC's registered office to anyone on payment of the appropriate fee.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,115 ✭✭✭✭Caranica


    You are advising the tenant to talk to someone who has no obligation to talk to them. I know our management company will deal with owners only. As a director I've had tenants come to my door and it's a horrendous experience, I have the right to privacy in my home. Management company decisions are made in the best interest of all owners, we have no responsibility to tenants.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭Meesared


    For those saying it's down to the landlord, from what we can tell, that does not seem to be the case. Other residents here are also affected who have other landlords. There seems to have been a breakdown in the relationship between the property management company for the apartments, and the company that runs the wider complex (including the car park). Now the reason for the breakdown, would most likely be over money, but not on the landlords end.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭Meesared


    Hah yeah weve actually considered this, but we'd need to find a number plate that works



  • Registered Users Posts: 901 ✭✭✭usernamegoes


    Even if this is a mistake on behalf of the management company, it's of no concern of the OP as to why this is happening, it's the landlords issue to solve not the OP's. Provided the OP has kept his part of his contract with the landlord then it's up to the landlord to ensure his part is met. That's how contract law works.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,467 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    The OMC does have obligations to tenants.

    Under the multi unit developments act, house rules as respects the development or part of the development relating to the effective operation and maintenance of the development and with the objective of enhancing the quiet and peaceable occupation of units generally in the development, shall be made in a manner consistent with—

    a) the objective of advancing the quiet and peaceful enjoyment of the property by the unit owners and the occupiers, and

    b) the objective of the fair and equitable balancing of the rights and obligations of the occupiers and the unit owners,

    A number of affected tenants making their own independent arrangements for waste management would not be conducive to the effective operation and maintenance of the development.

    Similarly if any affected tenants got 'stuck' at exit or entrance barriers because their numberplate is blacklisted it could be highly inconvenient for other owners and occupiers, particularly if it tended to happen mostly at busier times like morning and evening rush hour. That's hardly condusive to the effective operation of the development.

    I'm advising the OMC does have obligations to occupiers and it would be sensible for the OMC, either as a body or as individuals, to engage with affected tenants and seek a reasonable solution rather than potentially have things escalate into a situation where everyone might be inconvenienced.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,467 ✭✭✭FishOnABike



    Are owner occupiers affected as well or is it only some (but not all) of the people renting in the development?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,467 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    If I'm right in where I think the development is I wouldn't hold my breath for any quick solution to the dispute at the centre of the problem you are being dragged into.

    The lower ranking Google reviews for what I think is the location refer to lack of maintenance, parts of the building looking like they're ready to fall down and water getting in when it rains heavily.

    Newspaper reports for the same location I'm thinking of refer to serious building defects that will take around €13,500 per apartment to rectify. The original developer went into receivership over ten years ago. Any court case may be fairly complex and involve apportioning responsibility to any combination of the block insurance, construction companies engaged by the original development company and those construction companies insurers where any of them still exist. As the total cost to rectify the building defects is estimated to be around €10 million I doubt any of the construction companies or their insurers will just roll over and pay to fix things. I can see it being a long complex drawn out legal battle.

    @Meesared pm me if you want to know where I think the development is. If I'm right the above background information might help you dealing with the letting company or property management company or alternatively to look elsewhere (not easy with the current housing crisis I know).

    Whatever the root cause tenants should not be held hostage in a situation which is neither of their making nor in which they have any power to resolve.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 901 ✭✭✭usernamegoes


    I have no idea why you are so insistent on complicating this for the OP. The OP should contact his LL and if he get's no joy file a complaint with the RTB. Anything beyond that is pissing in the wind.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,467 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    I'm not trying to complicate things. The OP has tried speaking to both the letting agency and property management company and in the OP"s words "The letting agency seemed clueless, its the property management crowd that seem to be playing dumb."

    How quickly do you think the RTB will resolve the OP's (and other residents) problems with access and waste disposal?

    If I am correct about the back story to the problem the OP can make a more informed decision on how they should proceed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,552 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves



    The problem is for management companies the legal process is slow and cumbersome. OMC's end up trying to negotiate with non payers. Putting OMC charges as lien's on property deeds dose not work. Receivers and legal entities have had them removed before auctions. I have seen two instances where legal contracts have been drawn up one at an auction and one a tender sale where outstanding OMC charges were being passed on to the purchaser.

    It impossible for OMC's to use the legal system to enforce the collection of charges where owners ( whether occupier or landlords) refuse to pay. They can run up serious legal and enforcement costs without recovering these and can end up discounting unpaid fees and charges.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,467 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    @Bass Reeves Not a good situation for any OMC to find itself in either.

    It seems apartments are fine for everyone just so long as everything is running fine but once things go wrong it can very easily become an intractable mess for all concerned, owner occupiers, owner landlords, OMCs, property management companies and tenants alike.

    The more one digs into the mess the more it becomes apparent that we, as a country, are not ready for apartment living. The whole system needs to be reinvented from the ground up.

    We need proper building control, inspection and enforcement beginning from before ground is even broken, right through every stage of the building and finishing process and continuing into the operation of a development.

    As it stands the system is so disfunctional it is a strong disincentive to apartment living.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,552 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    The problem in Ireland as much as anything is the legal process. There is always someone trying it on. For instance in both cases I highlighted receivers knew there was mgmt fees owed but decided to ignore the legality of paying them. Mgmt fees technically are ahead of other debts on a property similar to property tax. Where it gets messy is when there is substantical arrears owed. At auctions most buyers do not get solicitors to read up the legal especially on lower prices units. Most read up the legal doc's themselves but sneaky bits are put in maybe 24-48 hours before auction.

    It is not just effecting apartment but holiday homes and student accommodation as well. OMC's cannot be expected to carry the massive risk of legal challenges. Even on a 100 unit OMC a legal loss could cost 2-3K/unit

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭Meesared


    Oh yeah I agree, (I am OP by the way haha) We are hoping we can use this to get out of the lease early, as weve been planning to move anyway



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,467 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    If you are in a part IV tenancy you can terminate the lease at any time with the proper notice without any particular reason.

    If you are in the middle of a fixed term lease you can request to assign the lease to someone else (might be difficult to find someone else when there's no parking or waste collection) and terminate the lease, with the correct notice period if the request to assign the lease is refused.

    If parking and refuse collection are included in your lease you could terminate the lease with 28 days notice if the landlord does not rectify the breach of their obligations within a reasonable time after they have been notified.

    If the landlord is already in a financial disagreement with the management company it would be wise to ensure you are not left at a loss of your deposit or any advance rent payment if terminating your tenancy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,236 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    You need to complain to the landlord in writing about this and keep copies of all correspondence. If you end up in a dispute at the RTB it will be crucial to have a full record, of what happened.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,382 ✭✭✭Tow


    The OP gave enough info to have a good guess at the location. If it is where I suspect, as FishOnABike said there is more to the story than unpaid annual maintenance fees. I knew one of the architects who helped design the place and heard stories about disputes with the builder and cost cutting while it was being built! The apartment owners are being asked for thousands to fix various issues. Many probably don't have the money, even if they wanted to pay. They were expensive 'upmarket' apartments to start with. The scheme was never finished. One block is an unfinished shell and which has changed hands a few times and seems to have stalled with planning issues again. There are other blocks which were never build and still have the hording around them.

    When is the money (including lost growth) Michael Noonan took in the Pension Levy going to be paid back?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭Meesared




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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,498 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    Agreed, but there should also be strengthening of the ability of managing companies and agents in collecting outstanding management fees. Far too many owners treat the system as a joke and know only too well the onerous difficulties in pursuing payment through the courts. There needs to be a streamlined process for dealing with irresponsible owners such as this.

    An owner in my own development hasn't paid management fees in nearly 10 years. Judgements have been secured in the courts against the individual, but they can be appealed and on and on the merry go round goes. It's usually people in the legal profession who pull stunts like this too.

    The end result is that management companies make it as difficult for the owner to let their property as possible, and you end up with unfortunate side effects such as this.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭Meesared


    So there was a development yesterday and the day before, basically the residents of the apartments blocked off access to the car park, and subsequently the Gardai were called. The Gardai advised the property managements representative that it was not legal to prevent our access to the car park without a court order (which they did not have). The property management relented and apparently automatic access to the car park should now be restored (though I have not tried it myself yet).



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,467 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    @Meesared Good to hear the parking is sorted for the moment at least. Fortune favours the bold, sometimes direct action is the best action.

    If waste disposal is still an issue maybe a complaint to environment health would be a good starting point.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,236 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Since when are the guards in the business of giving legal advice or telling people what the law is ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 901 ✭✭✭usernamegoes


    Yeah, I can't see a role for the gaurds in this civil matter. Unless someone was prevented from leaving the carpark.



  • Registered Users Posts: 431 ✭✭Jeremy Sproket


    Can you take down the registration of another car that has access and get fake plates made.

    Stick them over your own each time you want to enter and leave.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,115 ✭✭✭✭Caranica




  • Registered Users Posts: 431 ✭✭Jeremy Sproket




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭Meesared




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  • Registered Users Posts: 33,931 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    You don't understand you're obligations which begs the question why you are a director on management company. I'd suggest you read up on it.


    Additionally if it's so awful dealing with tenants then under handed tactics as a means to get an owner compliant by targeting an innocent tenant is similar to the right of privacy in your home. The door swings both ways.

    Shoe foot springs to mind



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