First olympic transgender athlete to compete at Tokyo 2020 **MOD NOTE IN OP**

 We can't bust heads like we used to. But we have our ways. One trick is to tell stories that don't go anywhere. Like the time I caught the ferry to Shelbyville. I needed a new heel for my shoe. So I decided to go to Morganville, which is what they called Shelbyville in those days. So I tied an onion to my belt, which was the style at the time. Now, to take the ferry cost a nickel, and in those days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on 'em. "Gimme five bees for a quarter," you'd say. Now where were we... oh yeah. The important thing was that I had an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time. They didn't have any white onions, because of the war. The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones...

Edit, she'll be competing Monday the 2nd at 2:50 in the morning our time, for anyone who was wondering...

We can’t discriminate like we used to either. But we have our ways. One trick is to tell stories that play on people’s worst fears, paranoia and ignorance of others. Like the time when Darwin instead of informing and educating people through science, instead thought it was more important to maintain Victorian moral standards and beliefs, because he feared he would be cancelled if he didn’t adhere to the predominant narrative. It was a self-serving move to protect himself, and a way for the upper classes to maintain dominance over the underclass who they claimed needed their protection. Over time the underclass as they became educated began to wonder “Protection from whom? Who are they protecting us from?”, and that kind of dissent could easily be silenced when it was just one or two people questioning the dominant narrative, but when whole groups began to question the dominant narrative, they realised the people who claimed to be protecting them, were the people they needed protecting from, in order to be legitimately valued as being of equal status in society.

As various laws were introduced which prohibited discrimination, the protectors of society became less and less relevant until eventually they were of no importance in society and they began to desperately cling to what little authority they still had by making up even more elaborate stories, because one thing society has never been short of is people who are ignorant, and they began to appeal to those people by playing on their paranoia and worst fears and ignorance of others, albeit with varying degrees of success given that people now have access to a wider perspective of reality than ever before at any time in human history.

They don’t even have to stay up until 2:50 in the morning to witness the end of days when they can catch it on YouTube in the morning or at any time, because we all know it’ll be reported on and repeated ad nauseum and whatever way anyone wants to spin the narrative to reinforce their already held beliefs, or to appeal to other people’s fears, paranoia and ignorance of others, they can do that too and STILL play the victim and maintain that the end of society as we know it is nigh as all the signs are there, you can see it for yourself, as presented by the people who claim they only want to protect you!

Find your glitter family Q, they will protect you from the end of days 😂

Biologically Quinn is a woman I believe. She played in the women's team before coming out as transgender and nonbinary (is that two different things??)

Who knows and who cares? Tomato, Tomatoe.

*her penis

Strange how there are no trans men qualifying for male events . Wonder why that is? Guess they didn't try hard enough or something

You can hardly say Chris Mosier didn’t try hard enough? Not only were they responsible for the IOC changing their policies regarding transgender athletes, but had they not been injured in the 50km walk race, they would have qualified for the Olympics in Tokyo -

They’re a woman biological female though in your terms so it stands to reason that nobody actually cares, because people don’t care about women generally, even the gender bending ones.

They’re convenient for making abstract arguments about “irreversible damage” and “wanting to protect women”, up until the point where one actually has to think about the fact that there’s more to a person than just their gender or sex.

FWIW, Mosier is a duathlete, but because Duathlon is not considered an Olympic sport, they decided to compete in the 50k walk race instead -

There’s insufficient evidence to support your claim though, which is why the evidence which does support your claim is being challenged, which leaves your opinion that transgender athletes should not be competing in female competitions also open to being challenged, which is what is being done, so that people who are transgender are able to participate in sports in accordance with their gender without being as they see it, unfairly discriminated against.

It means that of course you and anyone else are still entitled to see it whatever way you want, and no doubt you will, but no matter what you believe is or isn’t fair, it won’t stop people who are transgender from continuing to participate in sports and continuing to challenge people’s perceptions and beliefs. They aren’t arguing that they are entitled to win competitions, merely that they should be permitted to participate in sports in accordance with their gender.

Of course "tomato" is correct, and "tomatoe" doesn't exist. Is that your point? ;)

All for inclusion as long as transgender athletes are competing and winning medals in both male and female events (have no idea if that is or isnt the case), if they are only winning in female events then its clearly unfair on those other athletes born and competing as females.

Maybe there needs to be a transgender "sex" added, my guess results/times/distances or whatever would be slightly lower than the male athletes and slightly higher than the female on average, dont really see how else to be inclusive AND fair, its a tough one.

At no point in any of your posts was it clear you were referring only to physiological studies? From your original post in which you claimed that people who are transgender evidently have a significant advantage from androgen-fuelled puberty, it is for this reason alone that they should not be competing in female competitions. On that basis I can understand why you linked to the studies you did which support your opinion, but you’re failing to acknowledge that for other people, sports and sporting competitions and participation in sports is anything but a zero-sum game when the rules of the game can be configured almost at will in order to influence any outcomes.

You went on to say that there are no studies directly relating to transgender athletes but there is no a priori reason to suspect there is any difference there. Well there’s no reason to suspect any difference in athletic performance if all you’re concerned about is proving that there is a difference based upon biology, is there?

However you neglected to examine the broader context of transgender athletes participation in sports, and that’s how you come to the conclusion that sports are a zero-sum game and I value inclusion of trans athletes over fairness for cisgendered female athletes. Your position IS inherently wrong because it’s based entirely upon your own standards, whereas fairness in sports is determined objectively as regards policy decisions which are determined to exclude people who are transgender. I even linked you to the actual IOC guidelines, where they include this -

And that’s what it boils down to, not your opinion that sports are a zero-sum game or that anyone values inclusion of trans athletes over fairness for cisgendered female athletes, wherever you got that from. It’s clearly from your own perspective as opposed to giving anyone who disagrees with your perspective the benefit of the doubt. I was at least trying to be fair to you in assuming that maybe you weren’t aware of studies that have been done in relation to whether or not it is fair that transgender athletes are excluded from participating in sports, because that’s what the discussion is about, not just the factors which are important to you, or I, or to anyone else. Fairness is the idea of being fair to everyone. Fairness is not achieved by excluding anyone -