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The UK response - Part II - read OP

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,224 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    Testing is down but not enough to cover the drop in cases.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,727 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Good thread on the 2 dose delay out of Canada


    "if you get on the wrong train, get off at the nearest station, the longer it takes you to get off, the more expensive the return trip will be."



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,727 ✭✭✭brickster69


    "if you get on the wrong train, get off at the nearest station, the longer it takes you to get off, the more expensive the return trip will be."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,673 ✭✭✭✭ACitizenErased


    That's a seriously significant number for Scotland. Their drop in cases is now prolonged and sustained. Looking at a few days below 1000 this week I think.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,673 ✭✭✭✭ACitizenErased




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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,727 ✭✭✭brickster69


    "if you get on the wrong train, get off at the nearest station, the longer it takes you to get off, the more expensive the return trip will be."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,673 ✭✭✭✭ACitizenErased


    24,950 today down from 39,950 last week.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    More than a hint that it has peaked. Good for them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 827 ✭✭✭HalfAndHalf


    And ours is 1345 today, times that by 14 to get equivalence by population and that’s 18,800.

    We’ve only opened indoors to vaccinated people today, could get worse before it gets better.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,727 ✭✭✭brickster69


    I reckon Ireland will follow Scotland, 2 or 3 scary weeks and down quickly. Some countries on the continent though are going to get totally battered unfortunately, they have really fu##ed up. Ireland played it well the last couple of months, you might not think so but we will see.

    "if you get on the wrong train, get off at the nearest station, the longer it takes you to get off, the more expensive the return trip will be."



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,338 ✭✭✭Bit cynical


    The danger, however, is that remaining restrictions here, while flattening the curve (a good thing) will also have the effect of delaying the peak, so it might be into September and schools and colleges opening. This would have implications for removal of remaining restrictions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 827 ✭✭✭HalfAndHalf


    Not sure how you got me not thinking we played it well from what I wrote but OK 👍

    All I said was we’re not far off comparable U.K. numbers, yet are well off the opening levels was all.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,727 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Not being funny but it will be September going by how things have gone in the UK. Ireland is at the point now where it was the start of June in the UK and England eased all restrictions last week. The way it has turned out in Scotland maybe they could of opened at the same time but took a more safer route which is fair enough.

    Maybe Ireland just misses it altogether and get's away with it quicker than others, who knows. But when you look at Scotland yeah they have had restrictions a lot as well but it has not been a total disaster for them.

    "if you get on the wrong train, get off at the nearest station, the longer it takes you to get off, the more expensive the return trip will be."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,632 ✭✭✭✭bodhrandude


    Any spikes from Suffolk over the last weekend, just curious.

    If you want to get into it, you got to get out of it. (Hawkwind 1982)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,529 ✭✭✭Dave0301


    It could be that the impact of the Euros and the lead up to the final accelerated cases before the relaxing of restrictions. This was reflected in the sudden uptick around that time.

    I didn't think that the cases would drop off so quickly but it is promising in terms of vaccines/natural immunity among the population.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,103 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    I think case numbers were already spiking upwards before the Euros kicked off. People undoubtedly caught it on trains, in stadiums and from going round to mates to watch, but would those numbers actually be enough to create that spike in cases? Lots of people will have been watching the later games and doing things they probably shouldn't have done in terms of covid, but cases were already through the roof by then, and I don't think there were enough people who would have cared about getting drunk round their mates during the early matches to have caused that rise in cases. I think it was happening already and wouldn't blame it on the football.

    There was already signs early on from the first affected towns, such as Bolton (?), that the case numbers would spike significantly, but then drop off again quite quickly soon after regardless of any other action taken locally. Just took longer for that to take effect nationwide.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,968 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Surely the UK experience suggests that Ireland can avoid a peak at all. Presumably it is it beginning of the effects of herd immunity which has resulted in the decline in cases in the UK (don't know what else it could be). If that's the case, it is vaccinations which have built up immunity in the population, not virus spread.

    The less than 1m cases in the last month are a drop in the ocean compared to the more than 37m people fully vaccinated. Even with several potential super-spreader events (Euros) and vaccination rates dropping off, daily cases barely exceeded daily vaccinations in the UK for a day or two. If Ireland keeps the curve flattered and vaccinates plenty of people throughout August, we should be in a very good position come September.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,727 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Cases down, bad things up. Tuesday is normally the catch up day



    "if you get on the wrong train, get off at the nearest station, the longer it takes you to get off, the more expensive the return trip will be."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,338 ✭✭✭Bit cynical


    If it were purely the vaccines causing the current drop then you would not have seen the dramatic rise and fall as the delta variant wave passed.

    My view is that once a certain point is reached in vaccinations particularly of the vulnerable, virus transmission itself starts to have benefits that outweigh the costs. The advantage the UK will have over Ireland is that at the moment the virus is quickly travelling through the unvaccinated and undervaccinated population. In this way many who will never voluntarily be vaccinated will gain immunity. All this while deaths remain relatively low due to existing vaccinations.

    Ireland on the other hand will still have unvaccinated people coming into autumn and, because we're still suppressing the virus, they will not gain immunity through contracting it. Therefore we'll still have restrictions going into winter in Ireland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,968 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    A dramatic rise and fall in cases is what you would expect. The virus spread like wildfire with a serious growth rate than suddenly hit a wall and dropped off. That wall is almost certainly due to immunity levels. With 47m people with at least one dose, vaccines have to be a huge part in limiting the space for the virus to circulate. You basically said as much yourself with the virus "travelling through the unvaccinated and undervaccinated population".

    Ireland has a good level of vaccinations done and daily rates are still high. There seems to be good momentum and there are also incentives to getting vaccinated (indoor dining). Practically everyone 16+ who wants a vaccine should have at least one dose by the end of August. There are people who won't take it but that is a small enough percentage and the virus will continue to circulate and catch up with them eventually. The slower rate of spread now and going forward will lead to better outcomes for individuals and the healthcare system overall.

    Suppressing the virus now shouldn't be seen as a negative. In the UK even with rampant spread, the daily cases barely exceeded the daily rate of vaccination (which is a fraction of what it once was). Again, this is almost certainly due to the level of people already vaccinated. The UK has shown that letting it spread doesn't speed things up that much but does have other negative consequences.

    The UK might struggle to get people who were on the fence to get vaccinated now that they can do everything without it. There are still a lot of questions to be answered, how long does immunity from having had the virus last, will vaccines protect against future variants, etc. As regards restrictions next winter, I'd say the places likely to have the least of them are the places with the most vaccinated people.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,218 ✭✭✭snowcat


    As all the vulnerable are now vaccinated we should drop all restrictions. The virus will quickly circulate through the vaccine hesitant younger population and we will be done and dusted. Like the UK.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,147 ✭✭✭TonyMaloney


    I'm sure this is just a massive coincidence





  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,103 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    Yep, entirely coincidental because the waviness of the case rates has more to do with the day of the week being reported than who was playing a football match a day or so beforehand.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,147 ✭✭✭TonyMaloney


    I don't follow what you're getting at.

    Explain the gender divide



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,103 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    Less males vaccinated, less younger males working in health care situations so double jabbed since early on, males being more susceptible to covid, more males having taken tests prior to going to football matches.


    Take your pick. The rates converged again very quickly. Depends what point you are trying to make with the chart, or what point the person who put the chart together is trying to make, or if that is actually any significant difference to what would be seen in case rates between genders at any other time. Is that the normal random variation that is seen over a longer period of time? It's one very narrow period of time that has been shown and no context about what is normally seen in those charts.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,147 ✭✭✭TonyMaloney


    Sorry, none of your explanations work. The gender divide has since closed again.

    I think this is pretty strong evidence that the euros were behind a lot of the growth in the UK. If so, it's great news in a sense.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,103 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    It really doesn't show that.


    It just shows that whilst some football was being played in England there was also a rise in cases being measured in England. Nothing from just that chart to show any link, needs a lot more information to be able to claim that a bit of football caused the rise in cases. It might have done, but the chart doesn't show that.

    The rise was happening anyway since before the football happened, the gender split could be down to a multitude of different factors, or it might just not be a split anyway without seeing the same chart for a wider timeline and any other variations that there might have been at other times. Was there a change in the number of males who were getting tested? Can that be linked to football as well, possibly, but again would need more information on what people were actually doing and why.


    You may want to have a read on the proof of the lack of pirates being the cause of global warming:

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikaandersen/2012/03/23/true-fact-the-lack-of-pirates-is-causing-global-warming/



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,147 ✭✭✭TonyMaloney



    There's really no need to be so condescending.

    Don't take my word for it. Here's the same theory from the FT.




  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,103 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    That would be the complete theory from the FT, rather than a tiny bit of data with no surrounding context. Your initial chart only started from around the date of the Germany game and showed no gender imbalance at that point, whilst the FT data does show a difference. They are using different measures though with one being based on case rate and the other the total number of cases.


    "Men watch football shocker!"



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,147 ✭✭✭TonyMaloney



    Are you always this rude?

    It's clearly a worthy topic of conversation, so I've no idea why you're being so dismissive about it.

    Anyways, the big positive I take from it is that as we're not intending to host the majority of a european championship any time soon, we can hopefully avoid a similar spike given that we've almost caught up with them on the vax front.



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