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Road to Tokyo 2020 - Irish Olympic News

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  • Registered Users Posts: 26,361 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Does that mean another team complained ?

    Surely if so they are only guessing going on sight



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,372 ✭✭✭✭HeidiHeidi


    Equipment is measured after the race, their harness was found to be overweight, so they're being protested by the umpires/ jury



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,295 ✭✭✭External Association


    I've a strong feeling Annalise Murphy will make the final. it seems like she's found her mojo and coming into a bit of form at the right time. I've a feeling if she can get in the top 4 in her final two races tomorrow that should get her into the top 10. I haven't totally done the maths and of course the more races past the less scope for big placing jumps. But she has to be feeling very good at the moment.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,361 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Ok. Protest is a weird way to phrase it, umpires usually don't protest they just take action at least in any sport I watch



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Protest is a sailing term for any action taken if a breach of the rules is believed to have happened



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,667 ✭✭✭Speak Now


    Average enough start for the golfers, McIlroy T20 and Shane T31.

    6 and 7 shots off the lead.

    World ranked 6th and 16th of the 60 in the field.

    Real rankings are 13 and 40 which goes to show its a much weaker field than a major/wgc event.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,833 ✭✭✭Panrich


    It must have been found at a check by officials so it looks very ominous.



  • Registered Users Posts: 511 ✭✭✭noplacehere


    Does anyone have Eurosport app that could give me a time stamp for the gold medal win? I cannot find it anywhere



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,135 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    A protest is a hearing held if a competitor or the race committee feels a rule was broken. The race committee are only the umpires that oversee the race, they make sure the course is set correctly and run the start sequences etc. The really can only disqualify competitors indirectly if they break a rule during the racing that merits it, an example would be if theres been multiple bad starts by the fleet where boats are over the line and they need to do a full restart the committee can institute whats called a black flag rule where any boat that is over the line on the next start will be immediately disqualified. In this case its not a rule broken during the race but an overall class rule so the comittee cannot take direct action and need to do it via a protest.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,135 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    The maths are tricky and it also depends on the other boats but i think if she continues today's performance she should make the medal race but i don't think she can hit the podium unfortunately



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  • Registered Users Posts: 26,361 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Fair enough. It just confused me at first because a protest is usually launched by other teams in sports I watch so it got lost in translation.

    I know they have a black flag in F1 too but when you say it in sailing terms it sounds fun and piratey



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,135 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Im on Discovery+ but the race starts around 1 hour 22 mins and the medals are at 1 hour 57 mins



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,372 ✭✭✭✭HeidiHeidi


    It's great fun to watch sailing fleets push the starting line under normal starting rules, but as posted above if there's too many over the line at the gun, the U or black flag get broken out (which means if you're over the starting line in the one minute before the gun you're disqualified).

    It fairly puts manners on everyone 🤣


    Yeah, "protest" is a particular term in sailing - they're usually initiated by another boat(s) due to something that happens out in the race course, but in this case where strict weights and measurement are enforced, there's a jury or committee who can also protest a boat or crew if they find an infringement.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,135 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Indeed its funny to watch the difference in behavior when a black flag gets thrown up, if memory serves it was up for quite a few races in Rio?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,833 ✭✭✭Panrich


    So it looks like someone protested. That is very weird and you'd have to assume that they were sure of their ground before making the protest. How you can tell that the equipment is out of specification and overweight is another question as it would surely not be easily accessible to anyone bar the Irish crew themselves.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,372 ✭✭✭✭HeidiHeidi


    The equipment is measure by officials after the race

    (according to Prof on De Telly, they'd have taken the harness, soaked it in water, let it drip for 1 minute, and then weighed it - there's a limit of 2kg on them, and it was found to be 90g over.  But he seemed very sure that it wasn't a new harness, had been used before so would have been measured before - so how it wound up overweight this time is anyone's guess - I presume it'll come out in the wash later today)



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,135 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    As mentioned above their gear gets measured and weighed after every session, for some reason one of the harnesses came in overweight so the Race Committee have this confirmed overweight measurement to form their protest on.

    The idea that someone could sneak a weight into someones harness makes no sense as the person wearing it would very likely notice it and i don't believe the lads would honestly do it either.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,295 ✭✭✭External Association


    Very tricky. Someone placed 4th at the moment could have two disastrous races. And someone 11th climb into the top 10 etc. If you win a race you get a point, 2 for second etc, so the lowest scores are the table toppers. Annalise is 93 pts at the moment and the 10th place GB 79 pts. A lot of scenarios, but as you say if she wins and comes second in race 9 and 10, someone has to be dropping back.

    I think the pressure would be off her if she made the final.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,135 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Heres Prof explaining it pretty well for anyone not understanding why the harness weight is such a big issue




  • Registered Users Posts: 770 ✭✭✭Roadtoad


    For Annalise it appears to be all about wind strength: When light she suffers and when blowy she takes off!

    Friday its 4 or 5 m/sec, Saturday and Sunday its 2 or 3 m/sec.

    So she's in with a chance to get to the final 10, but would need a big weather change for the last race on Sunday.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,135 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Damn they've been disqualified from races 5 and 6 along with the Brazilian boat for the same reason who had an even heavier harness, im not sure if they can appeal. Below is the pdf of the protest hearing

    https://olympics.com/tokyo-2020/olympic-games/resOG2020-/pdf/OG2020-/SAL/OG2020-_SAL_C68E_SAL-------------------------------29.pdf



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,295 ✭✭✭External Association


    Sunday looking the least windy day in Tokyo forecast over the next week. 6km/hr. Hopefully that changes, if she gets through!



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,372 ✭✭✭✭HeidiHeidi




  • Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭Lamar Davis


    A dam that's a kick in the you know whats i would say they are gutted.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,010 ✭✭✭Christy42


    You wonder how that can happen? If it is intentional it doesn't seem like an edge you could get away with given the weighing so that seems unlikely. If it has been used before how did it pass before? Was there drainage issues, were they simply going too close to line and it got a little more water weight for one weighing? Can the absorbensy of it change over time? It mentions they are weighed a few times and the lowest taken. I wonder how much it varies in those cases and between different races. Also the Brazilians seem to be a mile over the limit. Surely it can't vary that much or they would have more issues? Potentially someone made an error and didn't soak it enough when we checked the harness ( I am presuming we check our equipment to make sure it will pass)?


    I am curious as to why they don't just measure it before races and everyone can be confident in their gear.


    I feel like those questions sound like I am asking leading questions but I haven't a clue about them and it is pretty confusing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,135 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    As someone who sails it makes no sense to me, now ive never sailed at anmywhere near this level so have no clue about why they measure after and not before etc but yes a harness could absolutely have drainage issues and the absorbency could absolutely change if it is an older harness. The hearing doc states the sailors are allowed check it and adjust it if it weighs over but again ive no clue about how this all occurs or what exactly happens during these weighing sessions.

    Id be very interested to know what it was clocking in at for the other days tbh.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,361 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    I'm assuming you can't do the checks before because the sailors and mechanics want to do last minute checks where as afterwards you can just impound all the boats and take your time with them with no interference.

    I think most vehicle sports do post race checks

    There is a possibility that that maybe Ireland were actually cheating. Everyone seems to be going down the oversight route



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,010 ✭✭✭Christy42


    While cheating is a possibility I don't know how you would expect to get away with them being weighed afterwards since cheating should have a plan to avoid getting punished too harshly or avoiding punishment altogether. Maybe they did have a plan and it just didn't work this day. It sucks in any case. Certainly I know little enough about the subject but I will errr on the side of oversight by either our team or the judges until someone more knowledgeable has an argument as to why it was more than likely intentional since it seems harsh to judge their personalities on it without more evidence.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,762 ✭✭✭✭Inquitus


    90 grams is 90ml of water in equivalence, literally a tiny amount, seems harsh and is certainly not intentional cheating.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,444 ✭✭✭✭Skid X



    You are either over the limit or not


    The rules are clear. The authorities are not the type to say "Arrah, sure ye are only a small bit over. Don't do it again"



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