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On stress leave, what’s my next move?

Bruno Smith

Hi folks, looking for advice. Quick timeline, I have been with the same company for 23 years, 4 years ago we expanded and increased our turnover by 30%. My workload increased and we hired 1 extra person in the office increasing to 6 the workforce. I am the logistics manager.
February 2020 I went on unpaid sick leave and returned in March just before COVID restrictions came in. I had a meeting with HR and the MD and outlined my concerns including problems with a work colleague who was making the atmosphere toxic, so much so that we were struggling to keep staff.
Last year we expanded again and we just couldn’t keep staff. I was working from home. I really wanted this to work as to avoid the toxic atmosphere. Unfortunately 2 of the staff left and I had to return and my MD insisted we didn’t need to replace them.
We went from 6 down to 4 with everyone else picking up the slack. We don’t get paid overtime. Needless to say I went a bit insane, so much so that in March my doctor told me to get out ASAP.
I worked the rest of the day and then informed my boss I would not be available for the next 3 weeks at least, I have been out since.
I have received counselling through LAYA (free with certain plans) and have been advised not to go back.
HR recently contacted me and I have asked for severance.
Not sure what to do next, any advice would be much appreciated.
TLDR Companies turnover increased by 80% (over 20m) and our staff reduced from 6 to 4, we are not paid overtime and I went insane.

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punisher5112

Have you looked elsewhere?

It's sad and crazy to think in 2021 this type of going on is tolerated.

Have you looked into the wrc or got legal advice or even a solicitor?

[Deleted User]

What is “severance”?

punisher5112

Dav010 wrote: »

What is “severance”?

Basically be paid off.... To leave

[Deleted User]

punisher5112 wrote: »

Basically be paid off.... To leave

But if the op is gone since March, why would they pay severance?

punisher5112

Dav010 wrote: »

But if the op is gone since March, why would they pay severance?

Still employed, out on sick due to stress....

The op is putting it to them to pay them off or I suppose go further... I don't know as would need more information.

Ludikrus

Sorry you’re going through this. Sounds like leaving is the right thing to do - your health comes first. Not sure though why you’d be entitled to a payment? If you’re not being made redundant then surely your choices are go back to the job or quit?

[Deleted User]

punisher5112 wrote: »

Still employed, out on sick due to stress....

The op is putting it to them to pay them off or I suppose go further... I don't know as would need more information.

Ya, that’s why I was asking the op, presumably the company has still been functioning since the op left, so severance pay would be unusual.

JPup

Ludikrus wrote: »

Sorry you’re going through this. Sounds like leaving is the right thing to do - your health comes first. Not sure though why you’d be entitled to a payment? If you’re not being made redundant then surely your choices are go back to the job or quit?

I have little knowledge of employment law, but it seems to me that he would have a strong claim for compensation given the toxic work environment he had to endure. This sounds like the definition of constructive dismissal to me.

0ph0rce0

Worked for so many ****ty pharma companies in logistics management myself, it's a horrible job, long hours due to dealing with different time zones, really high turnover of staff leaving the department stuck all the time, no incentives for staff when they constantly over perform and go above and beyond their duties, everyone stabbing each other in the back instead of just taking some responsibility.

Don't know why they would pay you anything to be fair. I don't think they can sack you for being off on stress leave anyway, but after so long they'll have you at the company doctor and once they give the all clear then they may have some wiggle room to get rid.

You're just a number. They don't give a **** about you and the longer you're off the more they will try to get you out.

Been through it all, Just look for another job.

Car99

Could you return and work at a rate you feel comfortable with. If since you've been off they are still functioning without replacing you then if you return and do anything at all they should still be able to function as a company.

Bruno Smith

punisher5112 wrote: »

Still employed, out on sick due to stress....

The op is putting it to them to pay them off or I suppose go further... I don't know as would need more information.

This, I feel I have been forced out (not the first person over 50 recently). I have been advised that if I had made my grievances official which I did last year and if they failed to act upon them then I would have a strong case. I’m opening dialogue with them and was wondering how to approach the next step.
From what I have read, there is a massive back log on the WRC, part of me wants to just leave and move on but then why should they get away with it. It’s only when it happens to you that you realise what few rights, if any, you have as an employee even in this day and age.
A reduced working week is tempting, but the last person who was in my situation that was offered this quit a few months later, as she ended up working similar hours for a lot less pay.
Also I am approaching 60, so jobs are not easy to come by.
Thanks for all the replies.

An Ri rua

By all means follow through the grievance process correctly.

But stop being so hard on yourself op. Mind your language. It's dangerous stuff. You did not go insane. You just buckled under the relentless pressure, it seems, eventually.
But before that? You oversaw a very successful turnover increase. So you're an asset anywhere. You have to separate your grievance from your rightfully due successes.
Steady as she goes, no kneejerk reactions now and no painting impossible pictures in your mind. For every sh1tbird MD, there's another who will see you, and your age, as an asset.

Ps an employer should NEVER get away with it. Twice in my career I have punished bad operators. Whichever route you go, you should be able to request anonymity (the bailiff may offer it). They cannot. As is proper.

Best wishes

juno10353

If you are out of work for stress, with Drs cert, then you can not return until declared well. Has the company got a pension illness scheme as they may agree to you taking early retirement.
Are you being paid by company while ill?

Bruno Smith

juno10353 wrote: »

If you are out of work for stress, with Drs cert, then you can not return until declared well. Has the company got a pension illness scheme as they may agree to you taking early retirement.
Are you being paid by company while ill?

Thanks I will check out the pension situation and I am getting statutory sick pay so nothing from the company.

houseyhouse

You've been treated terribly. They shouldn't get away with it.

You should contact the WRC. They won't give advice on individual cases but they might be able to give some general information about constructive dismissal, working conditions etc. It sounds to me like you would qualify for constructive dismissal but I don't think you get much compensation. Redundancy would pay much more when you've been in the job for 23 years.

Recent changes to legislation mean that all WRC decisions are now public (company name, not individual's name). Previously this was at the discretion of the employee but there could be pressure from companies to keep it quiet in order get speedy payment. Without that there's a bigger incentive for companies to just pay up in advance and avoid having the bad publicity.

If you go through with something like constructive dismissal through WRC you want to get all interactions with the company in writing, make sure you go through their grievance procedures etc. Send copies to your personal email because if you leave companies can remove access to work email very quickly.

bureau2009

Sorry you're having such a tough time.

Boards is very good at getting pointers and general guidance. However, in your case I think you need detailed legal or trade union advice and guidance. Legal advice does not come cheap. And keep IMPECCABLE written records of all your interactions, phone calls etc with your employer. Date, time and comprehensive record. Best of luck with everything.

Bruno Smith

bureau2009 wrote: »

Sorry you're having such a tough time.

Boards is very good at getting pointers and general guidance. However, in your case I think you need detailed legal or trade union advice and guidance. Legal advice does not come cheap. And keep IMPECCABLE written records of all your interactions, phone calls etc with your employer. Date, time and comprehensive record. Best of luck with everything.

Thanks for all the replies, we have no union which doesn’t help. I have made some more enquiries and will keep you posted.

banoffe2

The very best of luck OP

Bruno Smith

i have lodged my case with the WRC and hoping the company contacts me soon regarding a package. I have a very strong case with all details and dates recorded. I would like to get it done and dusted now and back to work but I assume I cannot start work until all this is over.

_Brian

I have every sympathy for OP.

but cannot understand someone who has been out sick contacting a company looking to be paid off.

paid off why ?

if the company aren’t looking for redundancy from anyone Then why would they pay it. Your not made redundant unless your position has gone and nothing I’ve seen suggests that.

paying someone off that claims the work is too hard and has made them ill may be seen as an admission of liability amd no reasonable employer would make that mistake.

have you left your job OP or are you still out sick ?? If you’ve not left then you can’t claim constructive dismissal.

If you do leave and then claim constructive dismissal remember you will be expected to prove that the company made specific attempts to force you specifically out of the company.

the fact that you went out sick legitimately, is one thing. But look at it from the perspective of a 3rd party reviewing the information, you contacted the company and tried to get a payoff when one wasn’t being offered., and then lodged a case either to lever them to pay you off or through spite for being refused. It doesn’t look clean cut at all.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117673547#Comment_117673547

While I have every sympathy with your situation, I can't see any reason for them to be motivated to offer you a package... Many people have stress related illness and long term sickness will eventually lead to a justified termination of your contract and if they are still paying you anything now it is probably coming out of insurance in any case. On the other hand if they are expecting you to make a claim against the company, then the company's legal advisors will be telling them not to make any offer as it could represent an admittance of guilt and leave them open further claims.

Good luck with it, but it looks a long way from a clear case.

backwards_man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117673547#Comment_117673547

The burden of proof will be on you in a constructive dismissal case. I would advise getting legal counsel. You need evidence that the company did not follow procedure. I just dont see it from what you have said here. Sounds like you are still out on sick leave and the company is giving you space to get better, you have jumped the gun with an offer of taking a package to leave. Did the company say anything about letting you go or forcing you back?

Bruno Smith

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117677415#Comment_117677415

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058195354/on-stress-leave-what-s-my-next-move

Update on this, I am waiting on the WRC, adjudication didn't go well, so could be waiting at least another 6 months and fed up and sorry I didn't move on. I am currently on sick leave and looking for other work and was wondering if there was any other course open to me, including contacting my employer.

Can I resign and still go through the WRC process? Would I be better off staying on sick leave, than going on the dole? Am not stuck for money and currently doing some on-line courses.

I have great support from family and friends but mentally it is starting to get tough again.

By the way, as I have no union and work in the private sector, I feel people in my position being of a certain age and effectively forced out of work have zero rights, which is sad in this day and age.

kathleen37

Sorry this is dragging on for you.

As it seems you have no wish to stay at this toxic place (good for you!) then I would be actively looking for a new job. I would suggest you contact WRC direct to find out about their processes. Staying tied to a place that's making you ill though... I would definitely check out your options.

Take care.

mumo3

I had the same issue with my previous employment. I picked up the slack when staff left and the MD was slow in replacing them, which led to every problem, whether it in my department or not being my fault. Got to the point I was having panic attacks outside of work. GP did the same as your own signed me off straight away and told me he would not be signing me fit for work if I was returning to that work place. I went to a solicitor and was told it would be extremely hard to prove a case of constructive dismissal, even with the notes and examples I had been keeping for a couple of months before I left, and a colleague had at the same time a case for the same in the WRC which she went on to win (She did advise me against doing the same as she said the cost and stress was worse). My advice, which was what I have done, was to just find a new job, I took up a part time position to ease me in as my confidence was completely shot and cut off all ties with work colleagues who I wasn't friends with outside of the job, which was the best thing I could have done. I wish you all the best, and you will recover from it, but it will take time. There's times even now two years down the line I question myself over the simplest of tasks in work, but I'm so much better for walking away.

Bruno Smith

Thanks for the replies looks like it is my only option.

mumo3

@Bruno Smith just curious as to how you are doing and how you got on?