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Dismissed for COVID mistake

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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,455 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    But how does that fit with the manager saying they put all the hotel staff and guests in danger? What they get up to during self isolation had no bearing on the hotel unless they ate there, which they didn't.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,402 ✭✭✭✭ednwireland


    you need to brush up on your geography it takes the guts of 8 hours to get from the top of donegal to cork

    it takes 2 hours to get fron one end of donegal to another (malin to bundoran !)



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,992 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    Doesn't matter who sent them. If they presented to work sick they have to leave, self isolate and get a test. 2 out of 3 isn't following the correct procedure.


    Which is all irrelevant as they where only employees for 3 months so could have been fired with at any time in the next 8 months, the company didn't even have to say gross misconduct. But not following protocol in an industry that has been forced to introduce stringent safety protocols to protect staff and customers is a gross violation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,979 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    The largest county in Ireland is cork. It takes under 2 hours to get from one end of it to another.

    Either your time are off for exaggeration purposes (to what end I don't know) or your entire story is a ruse for comment hits



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,455 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    3 hours from Allihes to Youghal if you're lucky with traffic.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,487 ✭✭✭KildareP


    Seems there's a lot missing to really judge what happened.

    I'd imagine the hotel would have grounds under the Safety, Health and Welfare at Work Act 2005 because that places very clear obligations on the employee not to endanger the workplace in general, which if you were supposed to be self-isolating pending a Covid test result, they can't really say they did by stopping off somewhere.

    I can see this becoming an absolute minefield over the next few months though, along with the above increasing as people returning to the workplace, I can see huge standoffs arising between:

    • employers seeking all employees be vaccinated but certain employees not wishing to do so - can you oblige an employee to be vaccinated?
    • having vaccinated employees not wishing to attend the same workspace as an employee who does not wish to be vaccinated - which of your employee's rights do you protect?
    • The likes of restaurants advertising that all of their staff are vaccinated to attract the cautious customers over another restaurant which doesn't have fully vaccinated staff - what does the second restaurant do to protect employees who choose not to be vaccinated whilst also avoiding a scenario of being unable to maintain sufficient footfall because of customer concern and the whole business going under, thereby impacting the lievlihoods of the employees who did vaccinate themselves?


  • Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 11,117 Mod ✭✭✭✭MarkR


    If they were told to self isolate, stopping off for snacks was irresponsible. I presume they have sandwiches in cork! Saying that, the employer can do whatever they like in the first 12 months, so that's the end of it.

    This thread is liking using a Ouija board. Yes. No. I would suggest that if you're looking for a meaningful response, fill in some details. A large county in Munster is being unnecessarily obscure.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,126 ✭✭✭Ger Roe


    Not much about this story makes sense, but for me the most serious aspect is that someone went in to work with cold symptoms. That is where the bigger risk factor is and the potential threat to the business. After that, you can debate the gross misconduct aspect and the level of action taken by the employer, but it was certainly a risky thing to do.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,641 CMod ✭✭✭✭faceman


    If someone is suspected of having Covid and awaiting test results then the official HSE guidelines are the person must self isolate. So even though them eating outdoors away from people would seem ok in most circumstances, it does not constitute self isolation in this case.


    That being said I wouldn't consider it to be a dismissal offence. I dont think it has been tested in the courts yet.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,049 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    tallaght to swords with out a car with some walking?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭dennyk


    Their stopping somewhere for lunch after their test when one of them was symptomatic was highly irresponsible and contrary to the HSE guidelines, but it had no impact on their employer nor did it endanger their coworkers or customers (only the employees and customers of that other poor unsuspecting business where they decided to knowingly spread their potential disease around), so the employer's reasoning makes little sense if they were actually sacked for the lunch stop alone. Coming into work with cold symptoms in the first place was the real problematic action as far as their job goes, though, and could certainly warrant disciplinary action of some sort, as they legitimately did put the employees and customers of their employer at risk by doing so. Even then, outright dismissal without any corrective action might be excessive, but unfortunately it will be difficult to fight it given their tenure.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I'm confused. When did she begin self isolating if she went to work with symptoms?

    Covid and the common cold share symptoms - all the current advice is if you have symptoms of a common cold, get tested.

    She was wrong to assume it was a cold and going to work without being tested first. The job shouldn't have had to send her home and instruct her to get tested.

    Doubt thats grounds for gross misconduct or dismissal though, but if employed less then 6 months I don't think she can do much.

    Edit - I see this is covered already, I missed a whole page full of replies when I replied!



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,005 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    As the person was there less than 12 months, not much that can really be done bar going on the internet/radio and naming them really and leaving them work through the PR battle of it. Not following HSE guidelines for this isn't really a fireable offence anyway imo but under 12 months, it doesn't matter. THey can fire you for looking at someone wrong at that point.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭qwerty13


    Your friend was foolish and irresponsible on two counts (going to work with symptoms, and stopping at a public premises for lunch), in an industry that is on its knees, and relies heavily on word of mouth/good reviews.

    I’m not at all surprised that she was fired. It doesn’t sound like the hotel followed proper procedures in firing her, but being there for such a short time I can’t imagine that she’ll have much chance of succeeding in any claim (if that’s how her mind is working).



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    She went to work assuming her symptoms were a common cold when she could have had covid. She should never have gone to work with those symptoms without being tested first. If I was her manager, I'd have sent her home too. I'd be furious if an employee turned up for work with those symptoms.

    She COULD easily have been positive, and in that case could have caused an outbreak at her workplace, and shutting down of the hotel. It was just lucky she wasn't.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    What PR battle?

    The hotel sent an irresponsible employee home for showing up to work with symptoms that could potentially have been covid, then for stopping to eat on the way back from the test (i.e. before they had a negative result) when they were supposed to be self isolating?

    I don't think the hotel would suffer too much.



  • Posts: 7,712 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    It’s Obumble. Facts don’t matter


    The company is always right

    The company is always right

    The company is always right

    The company is always right

    The company is always right

    Amen



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    If you go by donkey or are driving in the 1980s possibly.

    There aren’t many 5 hour journeys in Ireland and certainly none that you’d have to make if you were just going for a COVID test, which would absolutely be available in any significant town.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,005 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    It sounds like she was fired for eating when she should have been self isolating? If she's on work time, they basically fired her for taking a break, and if she's not, they fired her for doing something outside of work that had no effect on them at the time.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    She was supposed to be self-isolating until she got a negative test result, not eating somewhere she shouldn't have been. This is a second example of her showing poor judgement around safety protocols.

    We're 16 months into this pandemic, I don't believe for a second that she didn't know she wasn't supposed to go to work with cold symptoms without testing, and didn't know what self-isolation means. Its a message that has been drummed into us since March 2020.

    She has no one to blame for being fired but herself. In her employer's shoes, given her track record of poor judgement, I'd consider her a risk, too.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Jesus, 16 months since this all began, are there really people left who still do not get the basics?

    IF YOU HAVE SYMPTOMS, DON'T GO TO WORK.

    SELF-ISOLATE

    GET TESTED.



  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,497 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal



    But coming to work to start with did put people in work in danager, the employee should have known better to not come to work and instead contact gp to refer for a test. That whole process is free so cost is no excuse!.

    In my book the employer could get rid of them for putting others endanger by knowingly coming to work with covid symptoms.

    From viewpoint of stopping after the test but before the results, this could damage the hotel image and would also be enough to get rid of them.



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 18,587 Mod ✭✭✭✭Kimbot


    Lets try another example:


    Lets say I work in Kerry, only moved there for my job and dont know anybody.

    I attend work in a hotel with a mild cough and they take the decision to send me to a certain test centre, on route to the test I realise I need Petrol/Diesel for the remainder of my journey........... Should I be sacked for stopping and getting said fuel??



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,487 ✭✭✭KildareP


    Fuelling up the car takes all of 2-3 minutes, you're indoors for all of a minute and (should be) masked at all times. About the only thing you touch is the fuel nozzle.

    Having a sit down meal, where you're likely going to be there for the guts of half an hour at least, your mask will be off for the vast majority of that time since you're eating, you'll be making close contact with your face and then you're probably going to go indoors to use the toilet where you'll be making contact with a large number of surfaces is not in any way comparable to fuelling up the car.



  • Posts: 5,369 [Deleted User]


    Isnt it amazing how people dont seem to be able to understand the difference between a legal obligation and a health recomendation?


    My doctor tells me to lose weight, my boss cannot fire me for not going on a diet. My doctor tell me to stop smoking, I cannot be dismissed for continuting to smoke. Why? Because I havent broken the law. Junk food and cigarettes are legal. I as an adult, can make the bad decision to continue if I choose.


    Self isolating is not a legal requirement and no company can fire you for ignoring the reocmmendation. Being an asshole in your free time is not grounds for dismissal from the workplace.


    The company, by stating gross misconduct without following proceedure have left themselves open to an action. Had they simple fired them as no longer wanted, so be it. I disagree with that allowance but it exists. Gross misconduct however, requires a format and proceedure to be followed.


    As for bringing the hotel into disrepute, what the holy **** shite is being smoked?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Just stop.

    Stop making stupid arguments for what were irresponsible decisions that could have put other people's lives at danger.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yeah no, no retraction

    It's a made up story, terribly told

    Even if it wasn't, they're inside 12 months so tough luck



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]



    This is not about losing weight or smoking.

    This is about stopping the spread of a communicable virus that has the potential to be life-threatening to some, so your "bad decisions" might not just affect you.

    You used smoking as an example - well, this is why a smoking ban was put in place in all workplaces. No one may be able to compel you to stop smoking, but they can put limitations on where you smoke.

    But enough of the BS.

    Stop defending stupid decisions made by irresponsible people.



  • Registered Users Posts: 604 ✭✭✭a_squirrelman


    To repeat what Niner wrote: "Isnt it amazing how people dont seem to be able to understand the difference between a legal obligation and a health recomendation?"



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  • Registered Users Posts: 978 ✭✭✭Palmach


    Were driving a Ferrari? It was high season in a massive tourist area. Traffic chock a block.



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