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Cycle infrastructure planned for south Dublin

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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,766 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    These are just boilerplate arguments against all cycle infrastructure, to be honest. And the people objecting aren't remotely concerned about children cycling to school in the case of any of these schemes. Because they don't open their mouths to utter a word on the subject at any other time.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You are talking of thousands of motorists being displaced so the traffic will use every alternative route available and many will end up going through the village.

    The Merrion Road will be a polluting traffic jam all day everyday and it will be much more dangerous for cyclists who want to travel this route to offices and schools, its a much more direct route to the city than going via Strand Road which will be freezing cold and very windy and exposed from october till March.

    And good for you to cycling to the airport from Dunlaoghaire, you are in a minority, did you put the luggage on top of the children in the cargo bike.

    I hope you arent one of those parents who puts their children in those cargo bikes without helmets.



  • Registered Users Posts: 790 ✭✭✭Alias G


    As a local to Deansgrange, I can confirm that there is a great deal of support for the proposed one way closure at the cemetery. The N11 is less than a kilometer away from Deansgrange and perfectly suited to north/south trafffic flows. Local traffic diverted via Abbey road can expect 2 minutes added to their journey time. A perfectly acceptable compromise in my view if it results in further uptake in cycling.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,766 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    Please don't turn this into a helmet thread.



  • Registered Users Posts: 790 ✭✭✭Alias G


    Yes they will use alternatives. Including the M50 for by-passing the city which is what it was designed for.

    I may be in the minority but further roll out of quality cycling infrastructure is all about increasing that minority which would be beneficial for wider society.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,766 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    These posts are just revisiting the arguments that have been at this stage thoroughly flogged over dozens of pages already anyway.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,299 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    Locals think they know traffic movements better than they do. But there are studies that take into account all hours of the day that are better than a bit of "well in my expereience"

    You don't get it at all though. Traffic evaporation is a thing. It's happened around the world when better cycling infrastructure is put in and public transport improved.



    Yes, it's great to protect trees, but people who tarmac their drive, build huge extensions and lay down a load of patio are being woefully disingenuous of their sudden care for the environment. Go down mobhi road and youll see loads of houses with protect our trees on their windows, yet have 3-4 vehicles in their driveway that are scarecly needed. People will care for something when it suits them,



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I built an extension and I gravelled my drive and put in parking because commuters were parking outside my house all day.

    I retained some garden and I take care of it.

    I installed a lovely patio in the back garden last year and am delighted with it.

    I really think you should mind your own business, Mobhi Road is a lovely location and its clear the residents there take very good care of their homes and gardens.

    No one knows the traffic problems in an area better than people who have lived on the same roads for decades.

    When you make driving difficult you take away the independence of those with young families, those who are disabled and the elderly, you reduce their lives to the very tiny distance they can walk and cycling isnt even an option for many of this cohort.

    There are also hundreds of other people with dyspraxia and balance difficulties and they just dont enjoy cycling,thats the reality and the aim of making driving so difficult that people will turn to cycling in droves just isnt happening.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,070 ✭✭✭buffalo




  • Registered Users Posts: 8,070 ✭✭✭buffalo


    "When you make driving difficult" you don't take away anyone's independence, you just force them to re-evaluate how necessary their journey is, and could it be done via another means. You can still drive, it will just take longer.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,889 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    having bumper to bumper traffic queueing on every road is "taking away people's independence"

    having kids unable to cycle to school, sports training, to their friends house is "taking away their independence"

    there are plenty of people who can't drive for various reasons - what about their "independence"

    is disingenuous bullshit from people who don't want even the slightest impediment to their rights to drive down every road in every direction at any speed.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You do take away peoples independence when you make roads one way and confusing for people.

    I have stopped driving to Dunlaoghaire because its an ordeal now, Im not an elderly person who used to like sitting in a carpark with the paper but there are plenty of elderly people and those with mobility issues who dont go to Dunlaoghaire now.

    Its ok to say its lovely that you can cycle to Dunlaoghaire now along the coastal mobility route and buy a takeaway coffee and ice cream but there are downsides to this and one is increased traffic on smaller local roads, increased traffic on the Monkstown Road and less elderly people visible in the town.

    So making driving difficult does take away some peoples independence, of course it does.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,766 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo




  • Registered Users Posts: 8,070 ✭✭✭buffalo


    That's not your independence being taken away - that's you making the choice not to take an unnecessary journey via a means of transport that pollutes people's lungs and warms the planet. Which is the desired outcome.



  • Registered Users Posts: 743 ✭✭✭Heraclius


    Very disappointing. If every attempt to increase provision for pedestrians and cyclists gets bogged down or blocked like this we can forget about improving the urban environment in Ireland.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,889 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    Mannix will make sure it does - any attempt to so much as put a bollard on a road will be challenged by him now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 743 ✭✭✭Heraclius




  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,402 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    Best of luck to them.




  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,299 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    Arguing for the environmental impact so you can keep driving your fossil fuel burning vehicle is a a farcical irony that even the greatest satirists couldn't comprehend



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,766 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    Yes, that argument was made earlier.


    This is interesting making-the-best-of-it:


    I wonder whether an appeal will be required (or further legislation) even just to make clear, whatever about this particular work of disputed temporariness, what works are permitted by the current legislation.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,889 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    this must set a terrible precedent. Every bollard, speed bump, zebra crossing, speed limit change etc has the potential to change traffic flows - does the council now need planning and an EIS for every minor road change or traffic calming initiative?



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,766 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    I did think the only card they had in the deck was the claim that it was disingenuously being presented as a temporary work. The other claims were, as far as I recall, contradictory at best.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The judge also noted that Brendan O’Brien. the council’s head of technical services, environment and transportation, had stated the reduction of traffic on Strand Road and the provision of a safe two-way cycle route would mean residents and business owners in the area could travel northbound by walking, cycling or other modes of transport allowed on the cycleway.

    This would seem to suggest that residents and other persons in the affected roads, should they wish to go to Dublin Airport, would have to either walk or cycle”, the judge said.

    While he was sure this was not what was intended by the city council “it does seem to show a level of indifference to those affected”, he said.

    This is the really pertinent part and it applies to every resident upset by major changes in their locality that will result in traffic congestion.

    DLRCC can take note as it tries to force an unwanted one way route on Deansgrange Road.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,299 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    Well that's a judge speaking out their hoop regards the airport and really doesn't take in anything remotely real



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Hopefully this is the end of this scheme now.

    We are emerging with huge difficulties in our health service from covid and its going to require millions of euros to even get through existing waiting lists.

    We now much more importannt areas to be spending money on that defending insane cycling schemes in the Courts.

    There needs to be some accountability now for officials involved with this nonsense.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,766 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo



    Yeah, the report didn't mean the author envisaged residents walking or cycling to the airport. That bit of the judgement is really quite weird. Go south in your car slightly, and then go north?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,469 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I presume they will simply go ahead with the full planning permission route now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,766 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    Yes, we have to start building flood defences on that stretch shortly anyway.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Well, isnt that basically want I am being told here, whats your problem, get a cargo bike and cycle to the airport, someone said they have cycled from the airport to Dunlaoghaire so everyone else can do it too.

    The answer to everyone concerned about traffic being displaced causing traffic jams is get out of your car and walk, this is probably what the judge is referring to.

    So the judgment isnt weird at all, it was entirely to be expected, there is no alternative to the Strand Road for those wanting to get to the East Link, those wanting to get to Dublin port, the Port tunnel,the Airport, its a major road that carries thousands of cars everyday.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,766 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    I'm very taken by this notion that people will face "accountability" for trying to build a cycle track in Sandymount. I know the Irish Times thinks it's one of the most important places in the country, but really.



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