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Cycle infrastructure planned for south Dublin

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,171 ✭✭✭Rechuchote




  • Registered Users Posts: 23,968 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    It would be a huge mistake to focus on the Airport comment by the judge, that was completely by the by.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,968 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    They should ride first to the Department of Transport and then to the Civic Offices. That's where the blame for this mess lies.

    The Judge only made a legal ruling on the crap conduct of the Authorities.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,760 ✭✭✭Effects


    Well it just shows him up as being a bit out of touch, doesn't it?



  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,402 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine




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  • Posts: 3,621 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Looks like the Nimbeys had their day in court. I'm disappointed but not shocked. It's by no means over. Sometimes it doesn't work out in the court room. Let's hope DCC fast track plans that sidestep the areas highlighted by the judge. Let get it built!



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    At least the judge considered some of the consequences. That is more than Owen Keegan has done.

    I'm glad someone has.



  • Registered Users Posts: 100 ✭✭Trudee


    The judge was correct when saying ‘no reference is made to the fact that some four local roads are involved with an increase in traffic varying between 22% and 63%....common sense would indicate that the screening report has not properly addressed “ the nature of the impact” of the proposed cycle way to a considerable extent.’



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,968 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    That's totally and utterly the wrong logic.

    It was by attempting to side step quite obvious planning thresholds that ended them up in Court in the first place.

    I don't know why you think NIMBYs are to blame here ahead of an incompetent City Council. What would your view be if the same Council was attempting to circumvent legislation to railroad a measure through on your doorstep, say a drainage scheme or a housing project?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,987 ✭✭✭spaceHopper


    Judge kicked it out because he didn't believe it was temporary so therefor it had to go through proper planning and that a review in 6 months wasn't sufficient, big implications for DLR as they made loads of "temporary changes due to COVID" which will now probably have to apply to itself for retention.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,171 ✭✭✭Rechuchote


    That's not accurate, Trudee. People always fear the increase in traffic due to a cycle lane but it doesn't happen. Even in Paris, where the entire run of the lower quays along the Seine was made into gardens, cycleways and walkways (the quays have a roadway above and another below beside the river), there was a tiny, tiny increase. When a protected cycleway is built separated from other traffic, people use it, and get out of their cars to use it. So a lot of people who would be driving now cycle.

    And seriously, if the people of Sandymount really envisaged trucks rat-running through their suburb, the obvious thing to do would be to go to the council and request strategically placed bollards at one end of streets, so it would be possible to drive in and drive out, but not to drive through. This would make rat-running impossible.



  • Registered Users Posts: 100 ✭✭Trudee


    What do you mean it’s not accurate, the proposed increase in traffic on the four roads came from DCC own commissioned report.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,643 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Delighted with that judgement. This should put a halt to other schemes to take away road space.

    What I particularly like about the judgement is that the very group that stopped the construction of 1000 homes on the northside of Dublin in the courts in a housing crisis have themselves now been stuffed on technicalities.

    What goes around, come around

    You can have no complaints at all.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,171 ✭✭✭Rechuchote


    Really? I didn't see that figure, have you a link? It sounds distinctly odd!



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,293 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    That's been gone over a thousand times And you were already shown to be woefully wrong on that whole planning process



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Ah well

    So now it looks like the following options are on the table for the council

    Option 1 - Accept the judgement and put the works into full planning, EIS etc etc

    Just do the full planning process, reports etc, and just take a while longer to bring in the bike lanes & one way.

    The downside of this is every county council in the country is now hobbled with no clear path on what requires full planning, EIS etc and what does not. Could require many years of work to clarify things, new legislation etc and will severely curtail any minor works by councils all over the country.

    Option 2 - Appeal the ruling and keep appealing until the exhaust all appeals or win

    Following a review of the judgement, they may basically be told they need to appeal it to avoid the first scenario. The downside from option 1 remains until they secure a win that is not appealed.

    If they exhaust all appeals and don't win, they will be back to option 1.

    -------

    No matter what way they go, this is going to be a sh**show for years to come in terms of minor works. Its basically killed minor works from now on



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,643 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    If you're going to stick your ideological oar in and stop housing in one of the most deprived communities in the country than you have zero sympathy. That was a gross miscalculation to do something like that.

    Now you see the swing of that. We can all go to court.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,293 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    That development was not benefitting the people who live there, just like most of the developments in the are have ignored them for the past 30 years.


    I have worked in that community for close to the last 10 years and know people who work directly with the families and schools. They were getting nothing out of it.


    Yes we need housing, but housing is the one thing we more than anything that we can't let anyone play fast and lose with planning. We only have to look at our very recent past to show how bad planning has left housing that is not fit for a dog to live in.


    Ideological oar nothing



  • Registered Users Posts: 100 ✭✭Trudee


    Page 14 of above judgement and also attached full traffic analysis from DCC website so you can take it up with NTA/DCC if you find their results 'odd'




  • Registered Users Posts: 23,968 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Quite a few in Cork and Galway also that I'm aware of and no doubt others.



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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    I think it's important to keep in mind the bigger picture. The general and inevitable shift is, out of necessity, away from private cars and tilting more towards more sustainable forms of transport. In that context, this is a minor setback.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,968 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Leaving aside accusations of empire building in some of our local authorities, the sooner greater Dublin has a directly elected Mayor with executive powers, the better for the strategic direction of this City.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    Executive powers have to be handled responsibly and subject to oversight. It needed recourse to the courts to stop Keegan. No guarantee a public vote wouldn't produce another populist ego maniac.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,643 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Some of the responses are so absurd on Twitter talking about the "climate emergency" and how we are all doomed. Crazy stuff.

    If you want to lobby for cycle lanes by all means but when people don't want them in their area you need to just accept it and move on or put them somewhere else.

    What the larger area really needs in my view is the long delayed M50 Eastern Bypass motorway.

    Good day for the residents and local democracy.👍



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,293 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    Hold on a minute. One of the chief objects raised was about the environmental impact. They're no less absurd.


    People do want them in this area though, a councillor from an other area who is clinging on to relevancy in elections and an admittedly well organized pushback after the public consultation showed support for the trial. That's democracy?


    Claims of being blindsided are well off too. Plan is at least 8 years old.


    Merrion gates will be closing anyway in a few years so that's going to change things anyway.


    Dublin is small. Pandering to the idea that cars are the main means of transport has us in a position that is untenable long-term.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,968 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Quite right, but unlike career public servants who have these 7 year terms without any recourse to public judgement, any elected Mayor will have a party group or coalition of parties on the Council behind him or her and will be up for election every 5 years, so the political impetus will be greater.

    It's something new, will be interesting to see how it goes in Limerick first and I've no doubt that's the idea them having it before the capital.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,643 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    @Weepsie Cars are the main means of transport. That's the reality. Sure you can encourage people to use other modes but most will never give up the privacy and comfort of their cars and why would they?

    The alternatives are unattractive anyway. The red line Luas is plagued with anti social behaviour to the extent many simply refuse to use it. The DART has feral gangs of youths getting on and off as they please free of charge intimidating and assaulting people on a daily basis. No transport police. To this day without a car you still need a bus to get to the airport, still no high capacity fast metro, most just take their cars...I could go on and on.

    Other modes are just not attractive in Dublin in my opinion.

    If only as much effort was put in to the myriad of issues with public transport you might be getting somewhere.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,293 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    That's in your opinion, but fsr, far too many short journeys under 4km are being taken by single occupant vehicles.


    This is one of the solutions, as well as public transport. There are effors being made to the latter, and I particular metro north but the same bullshit nimbyism is rearing it's head there too (among many other issues).


    People are so f*cking selfish they can't see beyond there own little world.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 533 ✭✭✭Mr. Cats


    Of course a directly elected mayor, and his supporting coalition, are much more amenable to “campaign funding”, suiting the developers and their lackies much better than a career public servant.

    Post edited by Mr. Cats on


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