Notice substantially refurbish/renovate

Hedgecutter · 30-07-2021 12:47pm #1

Hi i intend to renovate a house im renting, plumbing, kitchen, floors, ground works etc. The notice i have to provide to my tenents is confusing me. Do i provide them with a quotation from a builder or and assessment from an engineer that the wroks will be substantial and take more then 3 weeks. The language an terminology on the RTB template is confusing me.

cheers

Claw Hammer · 30-07-2021 4:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058201504/notice-substantially-refurbish-renovate

What notice are you talking about? A Notice of termination?

Hedgecutter · 30-07-2021 7:56pm

I have to provide notice that i need them to move out so i can carry out the works. my understanding is they are entitled to have first refusal on renting the renovated house. Not 100 %

K.Flyer · 30-07-2021 8:48pm

Are the tenants complaining to you about these issues?

I only ask as it could be seen by some as a roundabout way to kick tenants out, give the place a lick of paint and then Jack up the rent to current levels.

Can the work not wait until their tenancy ends?

Hedgecutter · 30-07-2021 9:38pm

I'm waiting untill they're current contract ends. Next January. I understand I still needed to give them notice.

The house is 40 years old. Central heating system needs to be replaced, new kitchen and ground works need to be carried out. I m trying to do this properly and have no issue with the current tenants coming back.

They never complain about the house but it's obvious it need serious renovation.

Hedgecutter · 31-07-2021 11:44am

If the tenents contract is up on the 31st of January do i have to give them notice that i wont be renewing the contract? I think im confusing ending the tenancy mid contact as aposed to at the end of the contract.

K.Flyer · 31-07-2021 11:56am

How long have they been in the house?

Depending on the type of tenancy contract you have with them and how long they have occupied the property will dictate the length of notice required.

Hedgecutter · 31-07-2021 12:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117686494#Comment_117686494

Just under 7 years i think. That means 180 days. So is it notice that i wont be renewing the contract and give them that notice 180 before?

old_house · 31-07-2021 12:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117686521#Comment_117686521

Seven years would mean that the tenancy started before the end of December 2016. After the first six months your tenants would have had a further three and a half year period in the property under the old rules (see part 4 tenancy). This period would presumably have expired sometime in 2020, at which point a new part 4 tenancy began. Since you didn't terminate then the new part 4 tenancy would now last for six years from the date when the previous one ended. That means you are unlikely to be in the legal position to end it by next January other than for important reasons (like substantial renovations).

Hedgecutter · 31-07-2021 12:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117686590#Comment_117686590

So the time line set out in the contract is pointless so? and back to my original question about substantial renovations. Do i have to provide them with and engineers cert detailing the work that needs to be carried out? and they have to be notified 180 before?

Bass Reeves · 31-07-2021 12:36pm

My understanding is you have to give them 180 days notice. On the notice you can give them the information that it is because of substantial renovation and indicate to them what you are considering doing. You do not need to supply them with any other information.

Just be aware to give them the full required notice. It's 180 days from when they receive it not from date of letter. Consider sending it with proof of delivery. It's no harm to drop off a copy yourself as well. You notice time will now run into early February.

Hedgecutter · 31-07-2021 12:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117686623#Comment_117686623

I have no problem giving them extra time. I just want to make sure i do this properly. Dont want any delays with the work. I was on to RTB yesterday and he confused me. Highlighted below

" you would need to include the following documentation alongside the notice ; a statement—

(a) Specifying the nature of the intended works,

(b) That, in a case where planning permission has been obtained, a copy of the planning permission is attached to the notice or statement,

(c) That planning permission is not required, and the landlord has complied with the requirements under section 35(9)(b), which is to specify that where planning permission is not required to provide -

(i) The name of the contract, if any, employed to carry out the intended works, and

(ii) The dates on which the intended works are to be carried out and the proposed duration of the period in which those works are to be carried out

(d) Furthermore, the notice of termination (the ‘‘notice’’) must contain or be accompanied by a certificate in writing of a registered professional (within the meaning of the Building Control Act 2007) stating that -

(i) The proposed refurbishment or renovation works would pose a risk to the health or safety of the occupants of the dwelling concerned and should not proceed while the dwelling is occupied, and

(ii) Such a risk is likely to exist for such period as is specified in the certificate which shall not be less than 3 weeks

and

(e) That that the landlord, by serving the notice, is required to offer to the tenant a tenancy of the dwelling if up-to-date details are provided by the tenant to the landlord and the following conditions are satisfied—

(i) The dwelling becomes available for reletting by reason of the completion of the works of refurbishment or renovation or if a dispute in relation to the validity of the notice was referred to the RTB under Part 6 for resolution, the final determination of the dispute, and

(ii) The tenancy had not otherwise been validly terminated by using the grounds of breach of obligations, or the dwelling is no longer suitable to the accommodation needs of the tenant, or the landlord intends to sell with 9 months of the termination date, or the landlord seeks to terminate to change the use of the dwelling. "

K.Flyer · 31-07-2021 12:50pm

It means you will need to have a professional person stating that due to the works involved the property will not in a habitable state due to health and safety and lack of facilities, i.e. no water / heating etc.

So the notice needs to include all of the details of the work, time periods and how long the works will carry on for etc detailed and confirmed included in that notice. The notice needs to be given to them on or just before the date of the notice.

If there is any error in the notice you give them and they see it, they just have to wait, challenge it, if it's found to be invalid you are back to the start again.

Hedgecutter · 31-07-2021 12:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117686694#Comment_117686694

Thats what worries me. A professional is that a builder or an engineer.

Bass Reeves · 31-07-2021 12:54pm

Because this is a six month notice and because planning is not required some of what the RTB require may not be possible to obtain. I just get a letter from an engineer stating what the RTB require. It's impossible to get prices for work from builders for work to start in 6 months time.

Hedgecutter · 31-07-2021 12:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117686726#Comment_117686726

Thats the problem i having spoke to two builders and i could hear it in there voice they wouldnt call to look and quote me.

K.Flyer · 31-07-2021 1:43pm

It would be difficult to get a quote for work like this to start in six months. There are problems with the supplies of raw materials etc and between changes in availability and prices a price today could be invalid in 3 months never mind 6.

I think it might be worth chatting with a builder, explain what it is you are looking to do, but that you need a quote and the details of all the work required and to confirm that the house needs to be vacant in order to carry it out and you are happy for a price review in 3 months and to pay for the quote with it taken off the price should you go ahead with the work.

Now, here is the kicker, I have worked on many many house renovations in the past.

And depending on the size of the house, the work required and number of occupiers etc I have been on projects where bathrooms and kitchens have been replaced, full re-plumb and heating systems put in etc etc and the people have insisted on staying in the house and everyone worked around each other.

They put all of their bits and pieces into a storage facility, there was a temporary loo always working. They slept on a blow up mattress in sleeping bags, kettle for tea, showered in the gym and made it work.

They had nowhere else to go, but it worked out fine.

So, after 7 years and no complaints from your tenants..

A. Is the work really that necessary?

I imagine that you need to provide details that the work is absolutely necessary and that the property is substandard and not fit for purpose.

B. How long do you think it will take?

C. Where do you expect them to go given the current situation with houses?

D. Can you not work around them as described above.

Hedgecutter · 31-07-2021 2:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117686957#Comment_117686957

A. Is the work really that necessary? Yes, heating is giving problems. Plumbers cant figure out the issue but hardwater over 40 years id say could be the problem. Wall paper is lifting along the bottom of the walls around the house. I suspect damp caused by leaks but wont know till its opened up. Ground works such as footpaths need replacing. Mains water supply has leaked twice over the last few years, New pipe needs to be layed and referb for rooms. Everything is old and beginning to fall apart. Kitchen and bedrooms need all new units.

I imagine that you need to provide details that the work is absolutely necessary and that the property is substandard and not fit for purpose.

B. How long do you think it will take? Work could take 6 months im not sure.

C. Where do you expect them to go given the current situation with houses? I have no idea. Spoke to the tenent in january and told him my plans.

D. Can you not work around them as described above. Might be a worth taliking about, but to save money i wanted to project manage and do some work myself rather then handing it over to a builder.

Notice substantially refurbish/renovate

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