First olympic transgender athlete to compete at Tokyo 2020 **MOD NOTE IN OP**

Where did I say thats fine? Its clearly not if you are a female althlete. I think you entirely missed the point of my post.

The IOC’s medical and science director, Dr Richard Budgett:

"But he added: “The other important thing to remember is that trans women are women. You have got to include all women if you possibly can.”

That should be The IOC's ideology director, Richard Budgett.

Time to ramp the pressure up - the ideological theorists are everywhere.

With declaring that illogical mantra, he's an ideologist first not a scientist.

So do you believe it is unfair that male athletes are excluded from competing in female events then?

I see what you did there. But going by Hubbards past completions Hubbard will not be getting any medal

Having read my post you quoted, what do you think I believe? More importantly, what do you believe yourself?

I think the reasons for their exclusion that have been offered so far are unjustified and unreasonable, and on that basis have no legitimacy, in the same way as the reasons offered so far for the exclusion of females from participating in males sports are unjustified and unreasonable and on the same basis have no legitimacy. The arguments that their exclusion is justifiable in order to maintain competitive fairness in sports or to protect participants or to maintain safety in sports, just doesn’t stand up to scrutiny IMO.

Individual athletes are free to make up their own minds as to whether they wish to compete in an event or not, but what nobody is free to do is demand that anyone be excluded because they are a threat to that person’s chances of competing. I’m not alone in finding that attitude towards other people condescending -

From what we know of Hubbard for example, their reasoning for competing in weightlifting in the first place is that they imagined it would help them become more masculine. I can understand their reasoning, and at the same time it doesn’t take a genius to point out the obvious flaws in their reasoning, which no doubt they will now see themselves in hindsight - there’s clearly more to it than that, it’s just not as simple as they had initially thought it was.

I don’t think it’s as simple as some people here are making out it is either that having gone through puberty confers upon anyone significant advantages which they retain throughout their lifetime, particularly when one has to consider the fact that for people who are transgender it does not justify being forced to undergo what are considered to be unnecessary medical interventions in order to be recognised in law as their preferred gender, or to participate in sports in accordance with their gender. I’d see that sort of behaviour as archaic, and completely unjustified, unfair, unreasonable and unnecessarily trying to make an issue out of nothing.

I’m not sure who that’s directed at Ads but I for one anyway don’t support the idea that anyone is better off to profess something they don’t believe is true, so suggesting that anyone “admit” something they don’t believe is true is nothing more than a pathetic attempt to suggest that you’re still right and they’re still wrong. I don’t think you’ll find too many people agreeing with the IOC’s medical and science director who has 15 years experience at that level, that it is as simple as suggesting “transgender women are women”.

That may well be as simple as it is from his perspective, but I don’t think it’s so simple from anyone else’s perspective who isn’t the medical and science director of the IOC, though in respect of the IOC guidelines, his opinion obviously carries more weight in their formation than the opinions of the athletes who are competing in the Olympics. He’s the expert in those circumstances, not the athletes.

Ouch, did you just appeal to authority? Always a weak strategy. All the medical doctors who disagree with him must also be right, then? Because they are also medical doctors? So… which medical doctor is right - the one who believes that transgender women are transgender women or the one who believes that transgender women literally are women? Whose qualifications are the ones we take seriously here?

There are a very few sports where women's greater endurance may put them at a slight advantage (ultra marathon for example) so it's possible that trans men could realistically compete there.

But the fact is that the most popular sports to watch are usually those which require more "explosive" energy, of the type that men tend be better at.