Cycle infrastructure planned for south Dublin

Weepsie · 01-08-2021 10:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117693145#Comment_117693145

Well Transport for london did one study.

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/walking-cycling-economic-benefits-summary-pack.pdf

and this https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-12-05/cyclists-and-pedestrians-can-end-up-spending-more-each-month-than-drivers summises an academic study,(this one) https://www.ledevoir.com/documents/pdf/etudeportland.pdf that shows drivers spend more per trip, but less per month as they will make less trips.

For balance, there was an australian study too, a most woefully cycle unfriendly place, that showed like above that car users spend more per trip, but it didn't take into account how many trips were made. It also showed that the cost of providing and servicing secure parking facilities for drivers greatly reduced the positive spend effect.

tomasrojo · 01-08-2021 10:18pm

This isn't the survey I was thinking of, but it's not dissimilar: in 2.3.1over a month in the city centre, people who walk had the highest per capita shopping spend. Taken altogether rather than per capita, bus users had the highest spend, and people who walked also spent more than car users. Motorbikes and bikes didn't make up that much, but this was a few years ago.

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Dublin_City_Centre_Shopper_Survey_Report_MB_1.pdf

Larbre34 · 01-08-2021 10:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117692634#Comment_117692634

Eh?

Mr. Cats · 01-08-2021 10:30pm

All the comments about older people, no impact on climate change, the poor truckers (not to mention Brexit FFS) etc etc are all just looking for reasonable cover for the two main reasons people are actually on here complaining about the cycle lane in my opinion:

They live on a nearby road and they believe the traffic will increase due to the change, or
They commute frequently along Strand Road and are afraid that their journey will take longer in the future

On the first point, I understand the concern and it’s not a nice development for those affected if it turns out that way. However it’s not a reason to block something that’s better for the common good. We need to move our cities away from only having options to move about by car and encourage greener, healthier options. I would say that the residents on Strand Road itself suffered the same way when the East Link was built. Or the residents in Cabinteely, Foxrock with N11 or in fact any major infrastructure always has some consequences. There will always be winners and losers in it unfortunately.

For the second group, ultimately the single occupancy car journey is becoming unsustainable for many reasons, including congestion, pollution, and climate impact. We as a society have to find other ways. The idea is to encourage people to make other choices as we can no longer sustain this mode of transport.

I really wish people would just be honest and admit these are the reasons they object to the change. Then we can move the conversation onto minimising the impact for where there are actual traffic increases (eg by banning commercial vehicles, speed limits etc) and developing alternative public transport options for the second group so it’s more convenient.

As someone who lives along the south Dublin coast and works in central Dublin, I know well the hell that Strand Road is today at rush hour for all road users. It can take an hour and a half or more to cover the 8km from Blackrock to East Link in a car in the morning and similar going the other way in the evenings. It’s not like it’s an idyll currently so why not trial the change? There has to be a better way.

01-08-2021 11:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117693277#Comment_117693277

I don't even live in the Country so don't tell me I have an ulterior motive other than to highlight that rabid Cycling advocates don't give a damn about how many people they inconvenience in pursuit of objective which is to get preferential access to the roads ahead of all others. In this case their aim of taking a road away from other road users such as delivery staff, commuters in cars and motorbikes, buses, taxis and hackneys has been frustrated.

Weepsie · 02-08-2021 12:04am

They're not taking the road away though. And that's not the aim. Aim isn't to choke the roads whatsoever. Every objector has deliberately ignored the fact that traffic volume ordinarily tends to fall in areas where this type of thing is implemented.

It's willful ignorance at best or just sheer stupidity. The cold weather arguments make me think the latter

It would convenience an awful lot of people to go ahead and likely bring down noise pollution too making it a far more pleasant place to be. It would allow a large percentage of people to ditch the car, as a safe cycling alternative is there. Deliveries are increasingly done by non vehicular traffic too, and household deliveries could still be done and possibly easier too.

Nothing worse than having endless traffic at a standstill at your doorstep

02-08-2021 12:08am

If you have to resort to veiled Ad Hominem attacks on me as a former resident then that reflects badly on you.

Weepsie · 02-08-2021 12:35am

I'm not, I'm simply pointing out that every thing you have stated, every outcome is way out in the ludicrous scale for reasons to not proceed with the plan. They're tired old excuses that get trotted out.

You could formerly be a tree and it would be as relevant to the points you're making badly

02-08-2021 12:38am

You are not fit to be a Contributor much less a Moderator on this forum. You made an Ad Hominem attack on me. Recuse yourself.

Weepsie · 02-08-2021 12:48am

I called the post dumb. I called the follow up post dumber. I've no opinion on you as i don't know you. You made 2 completely inane and irrelevant posts about some faux concern for elderly and the effect of the weather. A wilful ignorance of the wider points that have been raised many times joined with that sort of thinking is not good faith posting

Trudee · 02-08-2021 12:48am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117693601#Comment_117693601

“Objectors” haven’t deliberately ignored the fact that traffic tends to ‘fall’ in areas where this sort of thing is implemented, DCC/NTA have said categorically there will be an increase on adjoining roads if Strand Road northbound closed starting with an am 114% increase on Merrion Road northwards heading towards city centre.

Weepsie · 02-08-2021 12:54am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117693707#Comment_117693707

If fully expect to see an initial rise too, but mod to long term once the viability of a safe segregated cycleway is demonstrated, the evaporation of traffic should begin to happen as more people leave the cars at home.

Trudee · 02-08-2021 1:00am

So what what ‘evaporation’ do you anticipate- from an am 114% increase to perhaps 100% ?

AndrewJRenko · 02-08-2021 1:10am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117693258#Comment_117693258

Eh?

Larbre34 · 02-08-2021 1:18am

What are you on about?

For a car journey, from the same origin to get to the East Link, a person would always use Strand Road.

Someone said Strand Road doesn't go to the East Link, when it totally and absolutely does. The new pigeon house Road and Sean Moore Road were upgraded specifically to connect the new bridge to Strand Road / Beach Road in the mid 80s.

There are people trying to deny blatant reality now.

Larbre34 · 02-08-2021 1:25am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117693719#Comment_117693719

Its just wishful thinking from you.

Traffic evaporation as a phenomenon, is only demonstrable when linked to a good scheme. A strategic network. There is nothing but sheer conjecture behind linking the failed Strand Road scheme to expected evaporation.

One of this City's longest continuous cycle routes of reasonable standard is the N11/R138 from Loughlinstown to Leeson Street and the increase in cycling figures has never coincided with a reduction in vehicle traffic (pandemic outliers ignored). Anyone who says Strand Road would do so must have their fingers crossed behind their back, because it is a claim hollow of credibility.

AndrewJRenko · 02-08-2021 1:45am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117693760#Comment_117693760

I wouldn't use Strand Road for that journey. I'm a person too.

SM Road links to more than Strand Road.

Larbre34 · 02-08-2021 1:59am

It may do, but not efficiently or practically. And the residents of Irishtown who joined up with STC were never going to tolerate an increase in diverted traffic down unsuitable roads.

Fighting Tao · 02-08-2021 7:45am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117693768#Comment_117693768

I suspect you’ve only seen the n11 route from the car. You certainly haven’t cycled on it with that statement.

Fighting Tao · 02-08-2021 8:04am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117693760#Comment_117693760

Done it many times and 7/10 times I would detour to go across one of the other Liffey bridges, or park in Irishtown or Ringsend, walk home and walk back for the car later. Ye are making up every excuse for a route that is often less inefficient for motoring than walking.

Fighting Tao · 02-08-2021 8:08am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117693728#Comment_117693728

Please show where you get the 114% from. It doesn’t seem to be on the DCC report. There is mention of 36% f or Seperntine Avenue and Tritonville road, but nothing anywhere near as big is 114%. So your source would be appreciated

https://councilmeetings.dublincity.ie/mgConvert2PDF.aspx?ID=29468

magicbastarder · 02-08-2021 9:11am

Flynn has started to talk about a bunch of follow on cases against existing infrastructure:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/sandymount-cycle-path-ruling-to-spur-vast-number-of-cases-1.4636421

There's something pathological about it at this stage. How many cases has he taken or threatened to take over infrastructure concerns which were unrelated to cycling?

02-08-2021 9:29am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117693705#Comment_117693705

There is a disproportionate number of elderly people in Sandymount. Have you lived on Strand Road? I have.

Have you experienced the biting wind coming in from the bay during the Winter months. I have.

I have experienced all these things which I know will have an impact on those living in the area affected by the proposed changed and will ensure that the cycle path will not be used to the extent which some fanatics here imagine.

Despite all this you pour scorn on my contribution and as you are the moderator you know you can act with impunity. I'd prefer to be labelled "dumb" than "biased and oppressive". You haven't silenced me yet because you are enjoying insulting me with no consequence.

My valid observations which were collected over years of living and participating in that community are dismissed as inanity and faux interest.

Again I say, you are not fit to be a contributor here much less a moderator.

Fighting Tao · 02-08-2021 9:32am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117694159#Comment_117694159

My grandparents if still alive would think it as very soft to let a bit of a chill stop them getting out and about. Only one of them drove, the rest walked and cycled everywhere. Elderly people are hardier than many young bucks today.

02-08-2021 9:39am

Tell that to my Landlord who had to cut short his holiday last week because despite getting a newly fitted pacemaker was feeling exhausted.

Tell that to a diabetic OAP e.g. a significant minority if not majority of them who will collapse when their blood sugar level drops after heavy exertion.

Tell that to my Aunt recovering from a hip replacemernt.

You are claiming they are able bodied and you are happy to let them figure out how to get home via a more circuitous route from Blackrock or St. Vincents after an all to regular visit.

Fighting Tao · 02-08-2021 9:41am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117694179#Comment_117694179

My father had 2 hip replacements in 3 months and the surgeon recommended cycling to aid it heal. He has no bother with his hips now.

Every excuse from you on behalf of others.

Rechuchote · 02-08-2021 9:47am

The outrage at cycling infrastructure is the same as the outrage when Dublin Bikes first appeared, and when Bleeper et all introduced dockless bikes. I well remember people horrified at the idea, and saying Dublin would become like China, where a capitalist free-for-all and collapsing bike hire companies had left piles of discarded bikes strewn over cities. Fearful drivers be fearful.

a_squirrelman · 02-08-2021 9:47am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117694179#Comment_117694179

Well if they’re driving anyway they only need to drive a few more minutes.

02-08-2021 9:51am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117694190#Comment_117694190

You are going to love the scooters when they arrive. They are strewn like litter all over the town here where few are considerately parked and fewer still parked upright. My initial enthusiasm for them has waned but the local bike system works well because bikes must be deposited at the stations and aren't operated for profit or advertising. I use the bikes. I don't use the scooters.

Weepsie · 02-08-2021 9:52am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117694179#Comment_117694179

Yeah they're not cycling up ventoux. You're continuing to make the most ridiculous arguments. It's an extreme version of won't somebody think of the children.

Our elderly population deserve a lot more credit than you're giving them. Sure many would remember when cycling was the major mode of transport in Dublin.

They're made of sterner stuff and would be embarrassed to be written off so easily by people

Cycle infrastructure planned for south Dublin

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