US and Nato withdrawal from Afghanistan...- threadbanned users in OP

Relax brah · 01-08-2021 6:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117690763#Comment_117690763

They will claim killing bin laden as the victory of going into Afghanistan and in doing so they have made the world a better place

Relax brah · 01-08-2021 6:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117690417#Comment_117690417

Its amazing how few people understand this.

Pakistan wants a weak Afghanistan to prevent their country from allying with India, Pakistan's arch nemesis, and surrounding Pakistan on two sides.

This is why they have provided tacit support to the Taliban (and terrorist groups) since the invasion. The US literally never stood a chance.

They want to partition Pakistan and each get their lands back(india wants Kashmir and Afghanistan pakhtunkwa). India has been the closest afghan ally since 2000s. India supports Afghanistan in nearly every sector. So much so that the current parliament of Afghanistan was built by India as a gift to them.

AbusesToilets · 01-08-2021 7:17pm

The US hasn't been fighting the Taliban the last decade or so, it's been fighting the ISI. If Pakistan wasn't wasn't actively supporting and training the Taliban, Afghanistan would have been in an entirely different position. Looking forward to watching Pakistan collapse in on itself in the near future, I just hope that it doesn't come with a nuclear exchange.

ChickenDish · 01-08-2021 8:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117691623#Comment_117691623

What Has China got to do with it.

ChickenDish · 01-08-2021 8:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117691551#Comment_117691551

What are you on?! So who's fault is it that Afghanistan is a cluster fcuk - the Afgans lmfao

ChickenDish · 01-08-2021 8:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117691912#Comment_117691912

Your knowledge of Afghanistan is astounding - seriously the Afghans are better off and want the Americans to stay - what the actual fcuk.

Yurt2 · 01-08-2021 9:06pm

Chill out ChickenDish and pick up a book. Afghanistan has been at war both internally and externally with only brief interludes of peace since the early 19th century with the Siege of Herat. The US occupation is blip on the timeline.

Yurt2 · 01-08-2021 9:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117692871#Comment_117692871

You'll soon find out Henry Kissenger.

01-08-2021 9:17pm

Saudi Arabians flew planes into the world trade centers. But Afghanistan was on the list. "Carpets of gold, or carpets of bombs" was the warning the Taliban received from a US diplomat (in relation to some natrual resource deal, IIRC) in the summer of 2001.

Saudis hit the WTC. But Afghans got it in the neck. Planes grounded all over the U.S., but the Bin Ladens are allowed to fly out on their private planes. Bush the Lesser was Head Goat Fu*ker at the time, you may recall. The Bushes and Bin Ladens had been doing business for decades. I don't know what the lessons are, but the phrase 'forked-tongue' comes to mind.

expectationlost · 01-08-2021 9:22pm

where did the Taliban get all its weapons/ammo from?

jmreire · 01-08-2021 11:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117692887#Comment_117692887

I actually lived there for several years, Kabul ,Kandahar and Herat and my knowledge comes from my personal experiences while there plus I'm still in close contact with my Afghan friends....as for the Americans staying, just wait and see what the Taliban will do...remember they are invaders too, and particularly unscrupulous ones at that. They have already started executing anyone who criticizes them, including a comedian in Kandahar who joked about the Talib leadership on TicTok,,,,,dregged him out if his house in front of his family, slapped him around and then killed him,,they have also shot dead 20 Afghan Soldiers in cold blood after they captured them. The reign of terror has begun..now, if you were an Afghan, and faced with a choice, Taliban or American, who would you pick.???

Yurt2 · 01-08-2021 11:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117693472#Comment_117693472

May I ask what you were doing there? Were you a service member with a foreign force or contractor?

It's somewhere I'd love to visit if the security situation allowed it, which will probably be never unfortunately the way things are looking.

Flinty997 · 02-08-2021 1:52am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117692871#Comment_117692871

https://thehill.com/opinion/national-security/565460-china-moves-quickly-to-replace-america-in-afghanistan

China has ambitions all over Asia, and China has a border with Afghanistan.

jmreire · 02-08-2021 2:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117693500#Comment_117693500

I was connected to a conflict / natural disaster aid organization ( not governmental / military.) As for Afghanistan itself, its a time machine, once you leave the cities and head for the rural areas. Lots of things unchanged since their forefathers time, including their tribal / clan / family systems and way of thinking. One of their gripes against the Taliban is that as they have always been Islamic, why did the Taliban feel that they had to come into their Country, and impose their brand of Islam? Life has improved during the 20 years the US were there, at almost every level, but especially health and education, but even they were unable to stop the corruption, especially at Govt level,,,,and thats the primary reason they failed. The wealth the US spent simply did not trickle down to the ordinary Afghans, it was siphoned off at a mega scale. They're a lovely friendly hospitable people. Always a pleasure to share a meal or simply a cup of tea and have a conversation with them., or have a walk in the bazaars and parks. Well worth a visit if you can manage it.

Thomhic312 · 02-08-2021 2:15pm

Oil.

AbusesToilets · 02-08-2021 2:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117692880#Comment_117692880

yes, the afghans are the main reason why afghanistan is a dump.

wes · 02-08-2021 4:31pm

The Taliban will likely win, as they represent Pashtun Ultra nationalism, and they live there, despite the bizarre claims that they are invaders from some on here.

It is best to leave Afghanistan alone at this point, and let them sort themselves out.

Yurt2 · 02-08-2021 4:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117695624#Comment_117695624

Pashtuns are a transnational ethnic group, there's 10s of millions of them in Pakistan across the border. At various points, Taliban activity would have been more directed from across the Khyber Pass in the tribal areas (and elsewhere) of Pakistan than not. Not to mention with the on-again-off-again assistance of the Pakistani ISI.

I mentioned him earlier on in the thread, but the West's foremost Afghanistan expert is an Irish chap called Michael Semple. Very much 'went native' so to speak (fluent speaker of several local languages including Pashto and Dari) and there's plenty of videos on Youtube and article contributions where he explains the complex mesh of Afghan and Pakistan tribal politics as it related to the conflict in Afghanistan.

smurfjed · 02-08-2021 6:13pm

Now the Afghani government are blaming the deterioration in safety on the USA’s sudden withdrawal, so yes they really wanted them to stay there. Not to mention that the taliban have refused to even talk about women’s status in the future. The country is doomed, those who got rich on US greenbacks will leave to live wonderful lives in Dubai, the average person will get screwed.

jmreire · 02-08-2021 6:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117695624#Comment_117695624

After the Russians left, the original Taliban ( students) swarmed out of the Pakistani madrassas. Hence my statement calling them invaders. They were never invited in to Afghanistan, and were never democratically ( or otherwise ) elected. What they have now morphed into is something else, but for sure, they are not what the majority of Afghans want.

smurfjed · 02-08-2021 6:30pm

There will be a civil war there in the next 12 months, it’s either that or people will end up as slaves once again.

Yurt2 · 02-08-2021 11:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117695090#Comment_117695090

Fascinating. I remember watching a documentary about a group of US army engineers building infrastructure in an Afghani town - a completely Syphisian task.

They'd put in telecoms/electricity infrastructure etc for the locals and a week later the copper and anything of value would all be stripped out and sold on the black market. The local security services were constantly high on opium and would fire randomly into the distance at the walls of the town when American officers came around to make it look like they were doing something. The local tribal chief who the Americans had to deal with to get anything done was known to be molesting teenage boys. Thankless endeavor and must have been like banging your head against a brick wall.

wes · 03-08-2021 12:46am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117695707#Comment_117695707

Yeah I am well aware that their are plenty of Pashtuns in Pakistan as well, but it should be noted none of the Afghan factions including the Taliban recognize the Durand line. The ISI has helped the Mujahedeen and allied with the Taliban to varying degrees in the past, but as can be seen by Pakistan fencing off the border with Afghanistan, those days are long gone.

You even have Pakistan taking in Afghan soldiers who fled from the Taliban these days:

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/7/27/afghan-soldiers-flee-attack-cross-border-pakistan-army

wes · 03-08-2021 12:57am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117696091#Comment_117696091

They didn't just come from Pakistani tribal area's, they very much were educated in Afghanistan as well. The border area, when the Taliban was created, was pretty easy for people to move back and forth. A lot of the people who live their, have never accepted the Durand line border. To say the Taliban invaded is imo absurd. They were part of the mujahedeen as well and split from them.

The origin is gone over here:

https://cisac.fsi.stanford.edu/mappingmilitants/profiles/afghan-taliban

Yurt2 · 03-08-2021 1:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117697643#Comment_117697643

The point stands that the Taliban movement can be said to come from without to a large extent and large proportions of people making up the Taliban movement are Pashtuns of Pakistani origin. It's been that way for a very long time.

wes · 03-08-2021 1:19am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117697697#Comment_117697697

Sure, an origin they reject as they don't recognize the border and never have.

Yurt2 · 03-08-2021 1:23am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117697708#Comment_117697708

Depends on who you're asking. Someone from the 50% of the non-Pashtun population of Afghanistan may not regard Pashtun militants from Peshwar as their national brethren and would have a hard time believing they are operating in their interests, and there's likely a plurality of Afghan Pashtuns that have had a gutful of the Taliban movement as well.

riclad · 03-08-2021 1:29am

The problem is the us government never built up a proper civil society with a strong army and police force the country was held together by currupt officials and bribery of local leaders

It's a bit like Lebanon in that respect. Thev taliban have endless support from Pakistan they are likely to take over the whole country

The air strikes can slow them down but how long will the air strikes continue

As we saw in Vietnam America could not defeat an insurgent army with basic weapons who have endless time and energy to fight maybe the Un could go in and stop the march of the taliban

wes · 03-08-2021 1:38am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117697714#Comment_117697714

Well, then they need to ask their government to recognize the Durand line then, as no faction in Afghanistan recognizes it.

Yurt2 · 03-08-2021 2:01am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117697727#Comment_117697727

For the most part, I doubt most local tribal leaders or Afghan ethnicities think beyond their valley or village hinterland. The Durand Line objection is very much a Pashtun preoccupation, an ethnicity that has dominated Afghanistani politics by dint of being a plurality of the population.

You're sexing-up other ethnicities' objection to the division of historical Pashtun lands. Tajiks for instance, are predominant in the Afghan army and are naturally wary of Pashtun hegemony in Afghanistan - if you're trying to convince me that they are hardcore anti-Durand Line in their outlook, you have a way to go. Indeed Tajiks were front and centre in both the Afghan civil wars as they feared Pashtun dominance.

US and Nato withdrawal from Afghanistan...- threadbanned users in OP

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