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Sophie: A Murder in West Cork - Netflix.

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭MoonUnit75




  • Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭solasGael


    That's a good point. Phone records are crucial. I also wonder what type of phones were involved. Mobile phones were already in use by 1996. Daniel claims Sophie phoned him at ca. 11pm the night in question. Did Sophie have a landline at the cottage, I wonder.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭MoonUnit75


    IB and Sophie had a landline, this was covered well in the West Cork podcast. They were on the old analog line so numbers called or the times were not logged on the phone system. I wonder how billing worked back then though? I seem to remember itemised bills in the late 80s.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,531 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    Believe it or not Ireland had one of the most advanced telecommunications infrastructure in Europe at one time. Exchanges would have been fully digital well before 1996.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecommunications_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland

    "Digital switching was introduced in 1980 using Ericsson AXE and Alcatel E10 switches both of which were manufactured at facilities in Ireland. This saw a total transformation of the telephone network with modern automatic and digital services reaching even the most rural parts of Ireland by the mid-1980s."

    Itemised billing was available to customers by request. Detailed call records would have been needed by the phone company (Telecom Eireann) for billing purposes as time, duration, calling number and called number would all have been needed to determine call charges.

    Post edited by FishOnABike on


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,992 Mod ✭✭✭✭whiterebel


    I think it was a Garda that said it on the podcast that West Cork had a mixture of both in 1996, and they couldn't track calls as they went cross hetwork.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    I watched the 2 shows

    Came out believing he's guilty

    The alibi thing did it for me, no way an alcoholic is going off writing an article after arriving back drunk to the house

    Plus he changed the story



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    People remember people better than objects, it's an innate part of us. If you were shown 20 cars with various features you would be hard pressed to recall the details of three or four accurately, if you were introduced to 20 people at a party you'd remember most if not all of them.


    There is no evidence for that, or that it is an innate part of us. it is just an opinion you have



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭MoonUnit75


    Ehhm, no. You are just unable to accept anything that contradicts your prejudices. Facial recognition has been found to have important localised processing in the aptly named ‘fusiform face region’ in the fusiform gyrus of the brain and certain areas of the temporal lobe. It is also facilitated by oxytocin and other brain hormones which link emotional responses to individual faces in memory.

    Damage or abnormal stimulation of these area of the brain causes impairment in the recognition of faces but not general objects. There’s also special impairments in face recognition and processing of emotions expressed only in the face in certain disorders like autism spectrum.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,846 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    All the innocent people put in jail based on eye witnesses and exonerated with dna would be delighted to know people are innately better at remembering people than objects. And it must also explain Marie Farrells short sallow skinned man morphing into the not short or sallow skinned Ian Bailey.

    People who work with cars may remember the car more than the owner.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 48 alz007


    Just finished watching it.

    Even after putting aside what the locals say about him and your own opinion of him, you can't help shake that he did it.

    It's mad he is still living there.

    lol at the gardai and their drawing of his arms with the scratches. Embarrassing for them.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,160 ✭✭✭crackcrack30


    Laugh out loud stuff in the w/c podcast, especially the game is on episode (7 I think), hard to believe in places. what the French make of it I can only imagine....



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]



    Facial recognition has been found to have important localised processing in the aptly named ‘fusiform face region’ in the fusiform gyrus of the brain and certain areas of the temporal lobe. It is also facilitated by oxytocin and other brain hormones which link emotional responses to individual faces in memory.

    Can you post the independent peer reviewed research that proves that?. You talk of prejudice LOL

    Where does it say people remember cars any less?


    It depends on what a person is interested or expert in

    Gauthier et al., in an adversarial collaboration with Kanwisher,[6] tested both car and bird experts, and found some activation in the FFA when car experts were identifying cars and when bird experts were identifying birds.[7] This finding has been replicated,[8][9] and expertise effects in the FFA have been found for other categories such as chess displays[10] and x-rays.[11] Recently, it was found that the thickness of the cortex in the FFA predicts the ability to recognize faces as well as vehicles.[12]

    and

    Psychologists debate whether the FFA is activated by faces for an evolutionary or expertise reason. The conflicting hypotheses stem from the ambiguity in FFA activation, as the FFA is activated by both familiar objects and faces. A study regarding novel objects called greebles determined this phenomenon.[21] When first exposed to greebles, a person's FFA was activated more strongly by faces than by greebles. After familiarising themselves with individual greebles or becoming a greeble expert, a person's FFA was activated equally by faces and greebles

    The FFA is activated by both familiar objects and faces. Is a car a familiar object? It is over simplification to say people are innate to remember faces more than cars.



  • Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭solasGael


    Good points. No one seems very interested in identifying the man with MF, including AGS, DPP and GSOC. That leads me to suspect, assuming he exists, he is/was an official of the state in some capacity.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    People who work with cars may remember the car more than the owner.

    correct as it can depend on interest and expertise



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭MoonUnit75


    Thank you, this demonstrates my point nicely. The fusiform face area is adapted to recognise and attach emotional weight to faces. As the quotes you added show, this region is adopted by experts or connoisseurs to attach emotional weight to things they are particularly attached to. Obviously there is no evolutionary basis for a recognition area in the brain for cars or horses so the FFA is co-opted for this role. In ordinary people, it is used for face recognition and recall.



  • Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭solasGael


    New statement about alleged cleaning of bloody clothes after Sophie murder by Senan Moloney

    A new statement about the murder of Sophie Toscan du Plantier – and the alleged cleaning of blood-stained clothes – has been supplied to An Garda Síochána.

    A man yesterday gave a statement claiming another person had confessed to him that they had helped clean bloodied clothes following the killing.

    Not permitted to post the link to the full article but it's in today's (August 7) Independent.

    Post edited by solasGael on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,531 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    And has only made this statement twenty years after the confession but discussed it last year with someone now living in Europe.

    Let's hope it helps bring the investigation to a conclusion and that it isn't too little, too late. It would be vital to interview the person this man claims confessed to to him of helping clean bloodied clothes, as anything else is just hearsay.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,114 ✭✭✭Xander10


    It sounds like typical Indo made up bullshit , unfortunately.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It demonstrates how your point was over simplified. The experts says it depends on the interest.

    Obviously there is no evolutionary basis for a recognition area in the brain for cars or horses so the FFA is co-opted for this role. In ordinary people, it is used for face recognition and recall.

    Can you post the evidence for you claim re no evolutionary basis? What are ordinary people? People who bash women's head in? Or the people who may have seen them?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭MoonUnit75


    Sorry, I’m getting a bit embarrassed on your behalf. Cars are only in existence since, what, the 1890s or so? Any brain region that shows specificity for recognising specific cars has been adapted from other modules and cannot originate in a specific evolutionary adaptation. The fact that, as your googled examples show, this is restricted to aficionados and not your average Joe Soap proves this.

    Move on, this petty contrariness is off topic.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I am embarrassed for you for ages with your one side anti Bailey rant.

    you want to run away move on because you cannot supply any evidence for your claims

    "Cars are only in existence since, what, the 1890s or so? Any brain region that shows specificity for recognising specific cars has been adapted from other modules and cannot originate in a specific evolutionary adaptation. The fact that, as your googled examples show, this is restricted to aficionados and not your average Joe Soap proves this." is meaningless. You are not an expert and you do not know "brain region that shows specificity for recognising specific cars has been adapted from other modules" As before you cannot produce evidence for you grand sounding claims re brain regions. You would be laughed out of any court

    Post some peer reviewed evidence for your claims



  • Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I came out of watching the Sky documentary thinking there was no evidence that Bailey did it, no motive and no real chance for him to do it either.

    The Netflix documentary on the other hand was biased towards his guilt but that didn’t convince me either.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭MoonUnit75


    In this article, we present recent findings from studies on the neuronal mechanisms of face perception and recognition in the light of current theoretical models. Results from brain imaging (fMRI, PET) and electrophysiology (ERP, MEG) show that in face perception particular regions (i.e. FFA, STS, IOA, AMTG, prefrontal and orbitofrontal cortex) are involved. These results are confirmed by behavioral data and clinical observations as well as by animal studies. The developmental findings reviewed in this article lead us to suppose that the ability to analyze face-like stimuli is hard-wired and improves during development.

    Our data show that FFA activation is correlated on a trial-by-trial basis with both detecting the presence of faces and identifying specific faces. However, for most non-face objects (including cars seen by car experts), within-category identification performance was correlated with activation in other regions of the ventral occipitotemporal cortex, not the FFA. These results indicate that the FFA is involved in both detection and identification of faces, but that it has little involvement in within-category identification of non-face objects (including objects of expertise).

    A recent study showing experience is not necessary for the face specific region to develop, adding persuasive evidence that it is innate and genetically coded. This, along with evidence that prosopagnosia is hereditary, argue against face perception resulting purely from visual experience:

    We show that visual experience is not necessary for face-selectivity to develop in the lateral fusiform gyrus, and neither apparently is a feature-based proto-map in this region of the cortex. Instead, our data suggest that the long-range connectivity of this region, which develops independent of visual experience, may mark the lateral fusiform gyrus as the site of the face-selective cortex

    https://www.pnas.org/content/117/37/23011



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    These documentaries always have some agenda. They will not follow the evidence and are edited to show the makers view or theory



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,928 ✭✭✭sporina


    Also Sophie's friend Agnes said that Sophie had told her about Ian wanting to meet up with her.. i'd say he read her some of his work and she didn't approve - so he lost it and killed her

    Have listened to all of the West Cork podcast series and watched both TV series and.. i think he is guilty.. the cops messed up.. Marie Farrell is a.. oh gosh - there are no words!

    Should she not have been prosecuted? She lied under oath?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,846 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    I find the evidence of Sophie's friend rather dubious.

    How long after the death and Bailey being named as a suspect did it take her to 'remember' this info?

    As for MF hard to know where the truth ends and the lies start.

    Did she even see someone?

    Did she see a short sallow skinned man as per her original description?

    Or did she see Ian Bailey?

    How did her descriptions morph over time and what role did AGS play on that?

    Post edited by odyssey06 on

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    "I find the evidence of Sophie's friend rather dubious.

    How long after the death and Bailey being named as a suspect did it take her to 'remember' this info?"


    she claims she remembered in December 2007 when http://www.assoph.org/assoph.org/Welcome.html was set up



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    . i'd say he read her some of his work and she didn't approve - so he lost it and killed her

    He went up at 3 or 4 am to read his poetry to her in the driveway while she stood there in her nightwear? He was not in the house no forensic. Anyone going in the house would have left traces of gravel or mud and forensic



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,874 ✭✭✭leath_dub


    ...



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    Prob pulled up the the car she went out and he lost it

    Cleaned the car and everything later



This discussion has been closed.
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