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2020 officially saw a record number of $1 billion weather and climate disasters.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Maybe someone should tell John about the Rocky mountains before he starts picking numbers out of the air. There is a genuine maritime effect of being surrounded by a relatively warm body of water (water retains heat longer than land) , this has nothing to do with the Gulf Stream and more importantly this maritime influence is bolstered by southwesterly winds bringing a warm air mass from the south which would not blow if the Rockies did not exist.


    More importantly RTE gave this guy 10 minutes to fill the airwaves assisted by the station presenter. This is a problem as Eddie Hobbs observed (41 minutes in) many Irish people have Stockholm syndrome with RTE because that is the only place they are getting their information and RTE has signalled clearly for the past several years they only intend to follow the narrative unless directed otherwise by Government. Many people are being blind-sided by RTE and the Irish media in general, as an example the Journal.ie is every bit as bad using university students to push the same narrative.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,235 ✭✭✭Oneiric 3


    Are you sure about that Pa LeGrand? If the Rockies did not exist I would be pretty sure that winds across the northern hemisphere would be far more boisterous, as they are in the very unimpeded southern hemisphere at our latitude equivalent.

    New Moon



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Perhaps, It would be colder without them being positioned where they are.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    Even without the Rockies, the very fact that the northern hemisphere is much less homogeneous (a bigger mix of land and sea) means that seasonal wave patterns will still set up. In winter, troughs tend to set up to the east of continents in the northern hemisphere and ridges to the west, and vice versa in summer. This is due to the heating (cooling) of the landmass during the summer (winter), raising (reducing) thicknesses and hence forming ridges (troughs). The Rockies just amplifies this feature in winter and plays some part in causing the mean location of the polar vortex to be centred closer to northeast Canada than over the Pole.

    Gibbons is another one who falls into Akrasia's category of those who are not qualified to report on climate topics in the media. Just like the Channel 4 guys. He has no training in Science and is only doing this gig to promote himself and his business interests (references to his medmedia.ie company on his climatescience.ie and thinknotswim.ie websites). I mean he has claimed that "70% of the Earth's surface has been cleared for agriculture". Does he mean fishing?



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,235 ✭✭✭Oneiric 3




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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,664 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Doesn't get more hyperbolic than the Guardian...

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/07/apocalyptic-scenes-hit-greece-as-athens-besieged-by-fire

    “These mountains around Athens are our life support,” she said, describing the challenge to mitigate heat as the battle of all battles now confronting Greece. “We’ve taken a huge step back. A vital part of our green infrastructure has gone. With all these trees no longer there, we’ll be faced with new climate conditions and have higher temperatures and likely floods in the metropolitan area of Athens for years to come.

    What are these "new" climate conditions as a result of local forests being burnt (a natural part of the life cycle in itself)? Why will you have higher temperatures as a result of these regional forest fires? Why would there be more floods?

    It's just gibberish.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭Tyrone212


    "How can trees help with flooding?

    Flooding poses a serious risk. But there is hope.

    We can respond to flooding by planting more trees. They help to reduce flooding in a number of ways,.

    Canopy cover

    Rain hits the ground at higher speeds where there is a lack of tree cover. A canopy of leaves, branches and trunks slows down the rain before it hits the ground simply by getting in the way. We call this interception.

    The interception of rainfall by trees can spread the effect of a rain storm over a longer time period. This allows some of the water (studies suggest up to 30%) to evaporate back into the atmosphere directly from the canopy without ever reaching the ground. All trees act in this way, but our native broadleaf trees do it best in summer when they’re in full leaf, but even in winter trees can intercept and re-evaporate rainfall.


    Roots

    Root systems help water penetrate deeper into the soil at a faster rate under and around trees. This means less surface run-off and more water storage in the soil.

    In rural areas, the removal of trees and hedges and changes in cropping have increased run-off from fields. Planting trees and hedges can be effective in increasing water infiltration, and reducing and slowing run-off on farmland. Water infiltration rates can be 60 times higher within tree shelterbelts than adjoining farmland."

    And from the UK government site

    To mark the end of National Tree Week, on 5 December we announced £3.9 million to fund innovative tree planting schemes which will see hundreds of thousands of new trees planted, including in towns and cities and near rivers to reduce flood risk. Community nurseries, agroforestry and hedgerow management schemes are being supported by a £2.5 million fund from the Treasury and a further £1.4 million has been awarded to the Environment Agency to fund ‘woodlands for water’ – 15 projects to plant over 850,000 trees that will protect around 160km of river and help to reduce the risk of flooding to over 500 properties.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,664 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    I'll give you that one. I was going to edit my post.

    It's still a load of hyperbolic hysterical nonsense.

    All forests will burn at some stage and regenerate over time before burning again. It's not some freak event.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    The language and tone used in that Guardian piece is just laughable. They really rub their hands with glee when a natural weather event occurs. It's another chance to hold out the begging bowl, because that Is, afterall, their only goal.

    Thermal-imaging drones measured surface (not air) temperatures of 55 °C in downtown Athens? Is that all? I would have thought that concrete surfaces would have been higher in a large city. I'm sure if drones were around in 1977, when the actual record of 48.0 °C was set, they would have recorded higher. Pop a drone over any built-up area anywhere in the world and you'll be surprised. But of course she wanted to get 55 °C in there somewhere so that it will register with readers and some will inevitably misread it and spread the myth that "it got up to 55 °C in Athens! (air temperature).

    The recent heat in the Med has been caused by hot air coming off northern Africa, leading to 850-hPa temperatures briefly peaking at 28 °C. This is a fact of life in the Med and nothing new. The heat wasn't caused by extra CO2 in the air over Greece, but numbtits reporter here would like you to think it was. The 1977 record was again not touched. How did that level of heat occur way back then when CO2 was only 330 ppm?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    Trees soak up water that fact has been known for millennia. Trees also convert CO2 into oxygen through a method known as photosynthesis, this has also been known for sometime.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    If anyone was in doubt about The Guardian's real motives then read the above. Promoting "poverty porn tourism" to Greece to see the effects of the financial crisis. They saw sense and axed the idea, but the fact that they entertained it in the first place, and back around the same time as they started going gung-ho with the begging climate propaganda, shows that they really are just a glorified tabloid looking to cash in at whatever cost.

    Edit: I can't get rid of this large heading font...



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    Trees also recover from fires, that's been known forever.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,664 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Precisely, it's part of the natural cycle in and of itself.

    To be clear I don't think either myself or Gaoth are arguing that we don't have to clean up our act and stop ejecting shite in to the atmosphere. Of course we do. That will take a long time to transition with new technology and ways of doing things but it is happening all the time. There is so much hyperbolic, misinformed and hysterical nonsense about man's contribution to a changing climate that it needs to be challenged and a bit of perspective has to prevail at some point.



  • Registered Users Posts: 408 ✭✭Orion402


    I like that the other thread was closed, after all, people here don't do lighthearted and cut each other to pieces over silly conclusions when success is always positive, something readers should learn from the Olympics. All effort never goes to waste so long as it is aimed towards positive ends as opposed to people who wish to argue based on positions designed to keep arguments going nowhere.


    The Earth science of climate is all positive and it will rely on observers capable of interpreting the time lapse footage of Uranus and the two surface rotations acting in isolation and in combination-


    HUGE SPRING STORMS ROUSE URANUS FROM WINTER HIBERNATION


    [Link goes here]


    About 50 seconds in as the time lapse speeds up to condense years into a few seconds, the dual surface rotations show themselves and likewise our home planet has these dual surface rotations also.


    Appreciation to those who will try to make sense of what is in front of them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    Now that you've jumped to this thread, could you at least post real links instead of [suchandsuch link goes here]? I don't know what Uranus has to do with this topic, but please don't repeat your "the Earth revolves once every 24 hours" mantra as a reply.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    if he had said ‘We do know’ you would have attacked him for lying

    There are lots of uncertainties over the exact impacts and timings around climate change

    Your objections because of these uncertainties are akin to asking the firefighters tackling the many many wildfires currently raging around the world ‘which house will burn down because of this fire’’ and if he says ‘we don’t know but all of these houses are at risk’ you then accuse him of not knowing anything and pretending that the wildfire is some kind of conspiracy



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    Bullshit, and you know it. Not the same thing at all.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    Like last new poster your first punch is directed at the man. All climate science research is relevant here, this is a science thread.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    John Gibbons doesn’t hide the fact that he is not a climate scientist. Similarly the reporters on channel 4 news are in fact journalists.

    A journalist is trained to collect/gather information in form of text, audio or pictures, processes them to a news-worthy form and disseminates it to the public.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 408 ✭✭Orion402


    "Now that you've jumped to this thread, could you at least post real links instead of [suchandsuch link goes here]? I don't know what Uranus has to do with this topic, but please don't repeat your "the Earth revolves once every 24 hours" mantra as a reply."

    Can't post links as it is restricted-

    " You have to be around for a little while longer before you can post links."

    Planetary climate, as distinct from geographical climate (maritime, continental,ect), is determined by the rate of change in conditions across latitudes as a planet makes a circuit of the Sun and that relies on inclination to the orbital plane.

    An inclination like Jupiter's has tiny Arctic/Antarctic circles so no changes in the rate of change as the planet orbits the Sun therefore the planet has an equatorial climate, Uranus has enormous Arctic/Antarctic circles in close proximity to each other and the rate of change is enormous therefore has a polar climate. Our planet is largely an equatorial climate with a sizable but influential polar input, which makes life possible in being neither too benign nor too extreme.

    That ship has sailed as far as I am concerned, the false arguments go nowhere and nobody here shows the least interest in relating planetary dynamics to Earth sciences, including climate. All the aggression, banning and closed threads can't disguise the lack of confidence in what is in front of contributors but it is not strictly your fault, it is the subculture you were born into.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    The current amount of “shite in the atmosphere” will take thousands of years to dissipate. The equilibrium has been disrupted and unfortunately life on this planet evolved and adapted to survive in that equilibrium.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    You wouldn't know it to read some of the posts of yours in the past, but I do note a possible toning down in recent days so that's to be welcomed.

    My post was on that poster's style of death by a thousand cuts, and each cut is the phrase "the Earth revolves once every 24 hours...". Maybe you haven't had the joy of reading the thread he started, or the other identical ones over previous years before his numerous bans. Posting videos without links is pointless.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    No, a journalist is trained to find ways of taking something mundane and, through the art of linguistic sleight of hand, transform it into a succession of words that will sell newspapers/invite clicks. You don't have to...no, wait...you must not know what you're talking about, because that gives you more latitude to ply your art all the better.

    He has done a unique job of proving that he neither has one shred of scientific perspective in his body nor knows how to control that subtle art. He's a spoofer, as Dunphy would say.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    That's all well and good, but how does that contribute anything to the debate on greenhouse gases? Or is this thread just another release valve for your rotation venting, seeing as the other one was sealed off?



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,235 ✭✭✭Oneiric 3


    Good talk here on how totalitarianism slowly gains its grip:


    Quote from the video:

    "In addition: contradictions, hypocrisies and lies form the foundation of the totalitarian ideology.

    "The totalitarian system presents the enslavement of the individual as his or her liberation; censoring information is called 'the protecting of truth'; the destruction of culture or the economy is called its 'development'; the military occupation of other countries is labeled as 'the furtherance of freedom and peace'.

    The Ministry of Peace instigated wars; The Ministry of Truth manufactured propaganda and the Ministry of Plenty created shortages.

    "These contradictions are not accidental. The purpose of this all-encompassing program of psychological warfare is to bewilder the mind of the average citizen. For when the citizen is bombarded with contradictions and lies and lives in what Orwell called "that shifting phantasmagorical world in which black today may be white tomorrow and yesterday's weather can be change by decree, he or she cease to know how to think.. or what to think".

    The distinction between up and down, fact and fiction, truth and falsity, is not only blurred, but loses significance. The belief in objective truth disappears and the average citizen becomes completely dependent on authority figures to feed him ideas, than thus, is read to assent to lies and to believe in the most absurd things, so long as those in the political class deem it to be true".

    But... back on topic....

    John Kerry’s gas-guzzling family jet has taken 16 trips this year alone

    John Kerry's private family jet took 16 trips this year alone (nypost.com)

    Post edited by Oneiric 3 on

    New Moon



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭Tyrone212


    Whats that nutty conspiracy theory shite got to do with this thread. Absolutely sweet FA



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,235 ✭✭✭Oneiric 3


    Really?

    What is 'nutty conspiracy theory shite' about what I just posted? Take your head out of your backside for a minute and actually watch the video and maybe learn a thing or two, rather than just dismissing everything you don't understand, like so, so many others as 'conspiracy', because that rootless, overstretched rebuttal means absolutely nothing to me.

    New Moon



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭Tyrone212


    You're crackers. Get some mental help and stop living on YouTube videos who take advantage of simpletons and they're gullibility making them feel like their in a secret group who are in the know. When they know sweet FA. Its a pattern with you always posting absolute nutjob bollox and living in a fantasy realm. Wise up.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,235 ✭✭✭Oneiric 3



    Who mentioned anything about 'secret groups'? You are seeing things that are not there in order to give yourself a grounding that otherwise you do not have.

    I'll ask again, where is the 'conspiracy' in my very legit post? Resorting to insults doesn't answer the actual question.

    It's funny though how you, all knowingly, claim to know what the aims of 'Youtubers' are.

    New Moon



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