Covid 19 Part XXXV-956,720 ROI (5,952 deaths) 452,946 NI (3,002 deaths) (08/01) Read OP

Mind-blowing to me to think that people still think that this virus is seasonal.

I cringe when hear people talking about " overlords " and NPHET inthe same sentence .

It's just ridiculous and pathetic that people still think that NPHET are somehow " in control " of the government .

You do realise that it is our elected governments' responsibility to make the laws and govern the country , or are you still tugging your forelock or doffing your cap to " lords and ladies " down there in Tipp ?

If they rely on NPHET and don't govern of their own accord , no matter what they say to the contrary , they alone are accountable to the people for that .

Not NPHET , who are unelected public servants .

I don't for one minute think some of you believe this rubbish but are just posting for " likes ' or " thanks" .

It might not be seasonal but the condition in winter in Ireland make it easier for it to spread . Heated shops , heated homes , people indoors , windows closed etc . I would have thought that was logical ?

Believe what you want .

I still think it is just a ridiculous and silly notion .

Is there any way, perhaps from PPS numbers, that they can work out how many people caught Covid (let’s say since January) but have not been vaccinated?

If we knew of how many unvaccinated people caught Covid and therefore have antibodies, that would give us a better picture or our level of immunity.

Anyone who thinks NPHET are some benign entity were obviously not paying attention last October when Tony returned to the fold on the infamous Sunday night and demanded level 5 lockdown including leaking his views to the media. He faced down the Tánaiste in the media spotlight and within days we were locked down.

Fast forward to the end June. We were all set to reopen hospitality normally when, at the 11th hour, NPHET and Philip Nolan produced a scary fantastical model and the whole thing was blown up and we ended up with vaccine "papers" out of it.

Add to that NPHET running their own PR campaign with members of NPHET becoming media stars, it's all very rotten.

You can bury your head if you want but there's been something malignant and unseemly about NPHETs role in our national governance for the last 18 months.

I was looking at the disease prevalence across Europe this evening and it's quite interesting, Western Europe has high disease rates in the main(with exception of Germany) but Southern Europe and to the East is quite low in comparison. I wonder what is causing such a discrepancy?

Not burying my head, namloc 1980 , but have a different perspective on it .

I will listen to what they say and take it with whatever emphasis I feel is appropriate.

Have been annoyed sometimes at the way things have been said as those who are regulars here would know .

But I don't consider then " overlords" nor do I think that they have overstepped the mark greatly .

We have been going through the most difficult 18 months in our (and probably yours !) generation with medical science and research to the fore all over the world trying to deal with this .

For some countries it has coincided with idiots in charge , like Boris, Trump and Bolsonaro .

While I wouldn't exactly describe ours as idiots , they have been overall very weak , thinking mainly MM and Donnelly here.

There have been times when the situation was too urgent from a public health perspective to leave those guys loose without stricter guidance .

Maybe some consider that overstepping the mark , but it is not, in what is, an emergency situation .

There has been similar situations around the world where public health officers have publicly disagreed with the elected buffoons, eg Fauci .

But can I ask you this ? Is every public health expert who speaks up wrong ? Or is it only NPHET and Tony Houlihan ?

It appears to me that the rhetoric here recently has been that everyone should agree with the main theme which appears to be anti NPHET , and very anti restrictions , at the moment .

This used to be an interesting thread with proper debate about issues " of breaking news " related to Covid .

And people were discouraged from sweeping generalised baseless statements / anecdotes.

It's in the main charter of the thread , first page .

Those who like to discuss " restrictions " had and still have their own thread

Those who like to discuss conspiracy have their own forum!

This is the only Covid main thread , which was a source of information and debate throughout the pandemic .

Now it has been derailed by a wash of posters with nothing to say except NPHET bashing, and these facile posts are then thanked by a slew of posters who then repeat the same post with different words over and over again ,and again thanked by the same people .

Not saying you , your posts are interesting and well thought out .

I have seen posters who post real information with statistics and a genuine interest in discussing the progress of Covid in Ireland , which is the title of the thread in fact, if anybody cares , being told that they are " illogical " or pro NPHET , pro lockdown and called clowns !

I have read those links , user 1998, and they were discussed by me and others and I think yourself ( ?) a few days ago and I gave my opinion then .

I don't rate that group that did that study, and I am not alone in that, but it is good that somebody is watching constitutional issues during the pandemic . Despite what some would have you believe, not everybody who believes that we have ( mostly) taken the right path in this , is right wing or antidemocracy .

I believe that some liberties are dispensable temporarily during an emergency once it has been stated when they will revert back .

I also believe that we should see a much greater freedom being returned if not complete relaxation in the next month or two due to our high level of vaccination and low severe Illness .

If not I think Irish people will not entertain it.

Do I think they/ I will take to the streets...not immediately , but yes if necessary .

Legislation is temporary for remaining restrictions , despite what a certain poster would have you believe and due to revert in October.

This is my opinion , I am entitled to it . Just as you are entitled to yours . That's what makes the thread interesting . Difference of opinion and reasoned debate .

That is what this thread is meant to be .

Not rehashing old debate and old subjects and ramming them down people's throats, over and over again ( Again not you )

All the regular posters on the other side of the debate if not gone already , will be signing off this thread if it continues and all that will be left is an echo chamber like some other threads , with people making unfounded and unchallenged statements , being thanked by the rest , profusely .

Do you think they manipulate the models to scare people?

Any hospitalisations and deaths from this is scary

They prepared a series of models based on certain scenarios. Optimistic, worst case etc. The media attention was focused on the worst case scenario. that is the one they asked questions of and the one in the headlines.

Was that worst case scenario OTT - in my opinion yes as it did not fully take into account vaccinated people and indeed natural behaviour.

Did NPHET then bounce the Govt into linking vaccination with access to indoor hospitality - In my view Yes. And I would also agree with NPHET on the objective but I have serious democratic legitimacy questions in respect to the method.

But I also think that NPHET had been short sighted up to then as it was an obvious strategy - and one I had suggested here back in April.

Overall the governance model for Covid has not been great but we have somehow stumbled through. Far better than some countries, not as good as others.

That is a prediction from over 4 weeks ago. Unfortunately this modelling is the only data driving government decisions and it needs to be a whole lot better than above optimistic or central. The rate of hospital increases is very small and with our programme heading for 80% fully vaccinated that means we are very close to the end so what NPHET say about the end of September really doesn't matter.

if I’m interpreting this correctly you think we will have more than 195 people in icu by end of September or for the period of 3 months to September? Central 1 is 450 icu admissions so that is where u see us going over next month and a half? You also conveniently left out deaths predicted.

nphet for some reason modelled for no delta variant but didn’t model for the recommendations they were making themselves. That’s either negligence or incompetence and wouldn’t be tolerated in the real world