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Murder at the Cottage | Sky

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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    That's actually a very good point. If she was such a tough little cookie, and I don't doubt that she was, coming alone to stay in a dark cold cottage in the middle of nowhere in the middle of winter, what is all this bullshit about being terrified by a gust of wind on the water?

    I believe the story came from the Ungerers who she visited afterwards, the same day she was killed.

    Perhaps they exagerated her fear, for reasons unknown. Or its not impossible that she exaggerated it herself in order to get closer to Mr Ungerer who by the way was exactly her type. Or perhaps she was using some substances which enhanced her experience.

    Either way, I believe it would have an effect on her actions that night.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭OwlsZat


    That's one part of it.

    The Martin O Sullivan statements are the other half.

    It's too strange that they both agree and happened right in about the murder yet not investigated at all.



  • Registered Users Posts: 288 ✭✭EdHoven


    It wasn't fixed. She was sleeping in the room over the kitchen to get some warmth not in her regular bedroom.



  • Registered Users Posts: 547 ✭✭✭Squeaksoutloud


    What is the source for one of the people in the house stating the door was opened and shut at 7am? DPP report does not reference this and indicates his movements can be accounted for which casts serious doubt on MF early accounts reliability. If we was out thumbing on the road then are you saying he was unsuccessful, back in for breakfast and ended up getting dropped home in the afternoon? If the above is correct it would lean towards MF being correct in her original assertions that it was him in all 3 sightings. I would be surprised that the DPP report, which I hold as the most factually correct interpretation of all the evidence, would not mention this testimony of a door being opened in the AM.



  • Registered Users Posts: 288 ✭✭EdHoven


    If they suspect she was going there to hook up with someone it could be to salve their consciences and respect her memory.

    If a cold case review is started the person who saw the woman in the jeep with the dark-skinned man should be sought. I am amazed the corroboration of MF's sallow-skimned man hanging around has never been probed. GSOC knew the witness' name.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 288 ✭✭EdHoven


    Her husband said in his police interview she originally intended to return on Christmas Day. Which would be impossible as there are no flights out of Ireland on Christmas Day.



  • Registered Users Posts: 30 Kelvinyook


    Sheridan does say that, also that that room had an electric heater, but also quotes the housekeeper "‘I got a heating repairman from Bantry and he fixed the problem and repaired the boiler. That was more than a week before Sophie arrived". And that she turned the heating on ready for Sophie's arrival. So did it not work well enough upstairs?

    Sophie called a handyman while she was there but apparently a plasterer to redo the fireplace.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭MoonUnit75


    I’ve come across it in a few places but Michael Sheridan in ‘The Murder of Sophie’ names the person as Tony Doran, he said he met Ian in the house next morning at around 11am but that he had heard someone leaving around 7.30, he hadn’t heard anyone coming back. Ian talks about leaving the house but wasn’t sure what time or what he was planning on doing in the West Cork podcast.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭MoonUnit75


    Right, we’ve discussed the Fiesta at the petrol station at length, I’m wondering about the supposed speeding Fiesta seen the morning of the murder. There’s no mention of it in any of the main sources, the DPP file, Bailey’s court cases… Strange.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Her husband said she wasn't afraid of anything, and would be very cutting and insulting if rejecting an advance, so her experience with the white lady is strange.A film producer one would think would not be superstitious. What do you mean by "Mr Ungerer who by the way was exactly her type"



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,856 ✭✭✭sporina


    the scenery was beautifully shot in it but didn't find it engaging or informative (mind you, had listened to all of the WC podcast so knew a lot anyway).. found the Netflix series much better - and more informative



  • Registered Users Posts: 288 ✭✭EdHoven


    His cartoons were about bondage. Seemingly one of the documentaries she made was about bondage.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,715 ✭✭✭ShamNNspace


    I've often wondered would a person of Sophies profession and means have owned and used a camera or video recorder at this time with records of who she spent time with, where she visited etc



  • Registered Users Posts: 89 ✭✭CowgirlBoots


    She had managed to get a ticket back to France on the 24th. Just heard it on the West Cork podcast. Listening to it again.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    He was also successful, artistic, wealthy, famous and about 20 years older than her.

    She once had an affair with a film director in his 60's while married to Daniel, but ended it to go back to him.

    She was a very free spirit.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I wondered about this too. She was supposedly a film producer and yet in all the documentaries about her I see only about 5 seconds of audio of her voice. This wasn't in a technology dark age, 1996 was the year films like Michael Collins, Independence Day and Fargo were released. She really seems to be a blank page.



  • Registered Users Posts: 288 ✭✭EdHoven


    If IB was into bondage it would be being cited as more definitive proof he was guilty.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭MoonUnit75


    ikr? Everyone knows the more you tell people you did it the more innocenter you does become.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭MoonUnit75


    This inability to selectively quote is a complete pain. But here we go:

    1. The murder happened at the coldest time of the year and the nights were clear, temperatures were either below or barely above a typical refrigerator. The state pathologist felt it was unnecessary to got to the scene but the garda in charge felt differently. I can see both sides, neither suggest any advantage for or against a conspiracy. If the pathologist didn't go to the scene the same people would be here arguing that the gardai moved the body deliberately to prevent the pathologist seeing it in situ and perhaps coming to conclusions they didn't like. The only argument made by the senior gardai from Dublin was that is was against the dignity of the victim to leave the body there and it was handier for the pathologist to get to Cork University Hospital. In general, it seems obvious that the pathologist should see the body as found, they can see if where the blood has congealed under the skin matches the position the body was found in, thereby establishing if it had been moved after death etc. I can see the local garda's point completely, it was out of his control how long it took the state pathologist to get his act together.
    2. I've yet to see anything official or reliable to back up the claim that a blue Ford Fiesta was seen driving dangerously near the scene, one article seems to have been in the Daily Mirror in 2014 and suggested it was new information. This article also claimed Sophie was having an affair with another person in the locality, this seems to be a baseless rumour too. The only other mention of it is by Gemma O'Doherty and a single line in an article about an interview with Ian Bailey. Is it possible this is a highly convenient rumour to surface just as IB was taking the High Court action against the state?
    3. So the idea was to bribe someone to get a false confession from an innocent man? Why don't they just bribe the guy to make a false statement that IB admitted it? Why go through months of meeting this drug user when they could have just said 'tell us he told you he did it and be on your way'? It makes zero sense unless the gardai genuinely believed IB was guilty.
    4. Bandon garda station was flooded at some point, it's likely some evidence was lost in that flood. This doesn't explain the pages torn out of the jobs book but since this happened after the DPP shelved the case and the McNally review, it seems to me it's more likely to be statements reporting innocent people for odd or unusual behaviour that were not relevant to the case. One of the contributors to the documentaries says as much, that people were reporting their neighbours for all sorts of things that were irrelevant to the case.


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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Someone on Baileys twitter feed keeps mentioning Jules Thomas's first husband/partner.

    Anyone know anything about that?



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,418 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    On point 4, the torn pages from the job book, your explanation makes no sense for multiple reasons.

    Also, even if some of the pages contained 'irrelevent' information, they had been in the book of evidence for years and gone through DPP process. Why remove them now? It makes no sense. Is this standard practice when a case is shelved by the DPP that the book of evidence is 'edited'?

    From the Irish Examiner:

    A total of 139 original statements are missing from witnesses and include original memos of interviews with Jules Thomas and Marie Farrell...

    GSOC said their concern is further compounded by the fact that the specific pages missing are from the time when Mr Bailey seems to have first been identified as a potential suspect and as such they are potentially very significant.

    It was noted during the review of the jobs books by GSOC that there were a number of issues about the actual records which could not be explained.

    Forensic scientist Brian Craythorne found several pages had been removed from the Jobs Book, possibly by cutting with scissors. He found that the front fly sheet, the pages numbered 1 to 7 and pages 10 and 11 were missing.

    These included the numbering such as Job number 277 jumping to 288 on the next page but there were no apparent missing pages. A number of pages were glued together with nothing in between them, meaning that the page numberings were also out of sequence.

    And let's not forget:

    The watchdog also said that due to a lack of cooperation for a number of gardaí it was not possible for it to fully establish some of the details pertaining to the arrests of Ian Bailey and Jules Thomas.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,906 ✭✭✭Xander10




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭MoonUnit75


    IB started a claim against the state and his solicitors were looking for the garda file and DPP reports for their case. The DPP report was then 'leaked' to the press while the judge had ruled it inadmissible due to it being composed almost entirely of opinion and conjecture rather than fact. The gardai would probably be justified in thinking sensitive elements of the case would have serious repercussions for people who gave information in good faith if it was made public. They may also have included references to local garda informants or methods of gaining intelligence that would compromise other cases. The chances of these pages containing 'Joe and I are thinking of planting evidence at the scene' or 'Myself and Danny falsified a few statements during our lunch break so are due 1 hour overtime' seems a lot less likely.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,065 ✭✭✭tibruit


    In one of her statements I think she indicated that he assaulted her too. She said something about feeling the force of his boots. The photo of her after one of Bailey`s assaults is pretty horrific. One can only imagine the fear her daughters must have had of him. I think Sheridan`s book described a male friend coming to stay after she had kicked Bailey out and he slept with a hammer under his pillow.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The poster refers to the information as being relevant. Something like: '... it wasn't mentioned in either documentary but look up Jules first husband and see what they were up to..'

    Probably nonsense as most things on twitter, but just wondering if there's anything to it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 838 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    No, there is no justification for deliberately destroying written records of an ongoing investigation

    None.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭MoonUnit75


    It wasn't a justification, it was a possible explanation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,418 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    This is utterly without foundation.

    This kind of content is included in books of evidence all the time, and handled by the DPP and defence solicitors under disclosure. The DPP has concluded their investigation and parked the case. Why would the book of evidence somehow now be at risk, considering it contains sensitive information about the case (regardless of these 'edits') full stop aside from anything operational or relating to informants.

    This is the same Gardai who tracked down Marie Farrell despite her phoning the confidential line and not wanting her name to be public?

    We're now expected to believe they think there might be 'repercussions' years later for some other witnesses? Pull the other one.

    I'll remind you some of the missing pages include:

    A total of 139 original statements are missing from witnesses and include original memos of interviews with Jules Thomas and Marie Farrell...

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,459 ✭✭✭FishOnABike




This discussion has been closed.
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