Cycle infrastructure planned for south Dublin

CapnHex · 10-08-2021 10:52am

I cycled this cycle lane yesterday, just to understand the discussion here. Access to the cycle lane from Blackrock has a separate traffic light in the sequence. The cycle lane is nearly 1 km. There is a set of pedestrian traffic lights. I counted 14 breaks in the kerb for access to the opposite side, although 2 might have been for manhole covers. How much of a detour is required to use this lane to access any house on the opposite side? Not using it as a matter of principle is a different issue.

ARX · 10-08-2021 11:47am

I'm wondering what's going to happen with those metal platforms at the bus stops when the temperature gets close to zero. Bridges get colder than roads, so will these get icy in the winter when the tarmac around them is still clear?

AndrewJRenko · 10-08-2021 12:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117731933#Comment_117731933

There ARE breaks at every junction - see photos provided earlier.

AndrewJRenko · 10-08-2021 12:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117731774#Comment_117731774

I'm confused now. I asked you what days/times it happens, and you said it happens you every time.

Now you're saying that Sunday morning traffic isn't typical. So what days/times are you typically experiencing these Mad Max road rage situations in Blackrock.

The seven cars that overtook me on Sunday morning didn't seem to have much difficulty getting past.

Shotser · 10-08-2021 12:49pm

Carysfort resident here. My residents association were not keen on the cycle lane, they're concern was that it took parking away and they were afraid these cars would park in the estate (hasn't happened). However in my opinion (and my experience) I believe it was anti-cyclist sentiment, which is rife in the WhatApp group. There was even campaigning for stopping the Strand rd. cycle lane in it. One lady complained, at the AGM, about kids on balance bikes being dangerous, going too fast etc. in the park and requested they be banned!

As for the cycle lane. In my opinion, seeing it everyday and using it every time I'm on my bike, it has been a great success. It serves two primary schools (Convent Rd. & top of Carysfort Ave.) and is jammed with kids cycling to school. I see kids, elderly people and full families using it. My kids use it everyday. If it looks empty it is because cyclist don't get stuck in bike traffic the same as cars do in car traffic!

There are plenty of breaks in the kerb to access the opposite side of the road and one can always use the cycle lane for part and use the road when they are close to their turn off. I have never seen cyclist being abused or being beeped at for using the road. Most people if using the road use it for a very short time for access and cars are only behind them for a few seconds (seconds can be a lifetime for some behind the wheel though). I have been abused and beeped at cycling on Carysfort prior as I would cycle out of the door zone and we all know how unacceptable this can be to certain individuals.

There are bike specific lights at either end to cross the road to access the cycle lane. These lights did not provide enough time to cross but this has since been rectified. You are squeezed in with car traffic at Convent rd but if they eliminated storage of private property on the public roads (on-street parking) they could provide more room. Ideally there should be a one way system put in place all around this area and/or eliminating on-street parking. I do feel sorry for those who live along these roads and don't have their car in their front garden. Many could fit them with alterations and unfortunately some can't but the public space outside of their house is exactly that, public, and everyone should be able to use it. It should not be monopolized by homeowners.

Unusable in winter due to conkers and leaves, what utter and complete nonsense, nothing more to say on that point. Those bus stops are plastic and seem to be fine in winter, no more slippy than the surrounding surfaces. They are not the same a bridges, they are not as exposed, are much closer to the ground and are enclosed.

It has calmed traffic on Carysfort. The driving lane is permanently narrowed (yes parked cars did narrow it but they're owners do come back and drive away leaving a much to wide road that did promote speeding) and the sight lines are vastly improved. It is now much easier to enter the road from a side road/estate and to cross the road.

Cars can't reveres out of driveways? It is easier now, no risk of reversing into a parked car and much better sight lines. Anyway I'm sure drivers know it is best practice to reverse into their driveways and drive out.

Overall it has been a great success and I believe the majority of local people would agree. From my very limited conversations with local Councillors they have come to the same conclusion.

Zaney · 10-08-2021 1:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117732545#Comment_117732545

I get that, but there are are not breaks opposite every driveway / house access. So for those individual residents, the ones it could be argued most directly affected by the infrastructure, they don’t have direct access to the cycleway.

I think it is an interesting question as to how residents on Carysfort Avenue (or anywhere else similar measures are built) are supposed to access the cycleway, cycle with traffic to the nearest junction, cycle on the footpath to the nearest junction, walk with the bike to the nearest junction, or should intermittent breaks be provided for individual houses?

Fighting Tao · 10-08-2021 2:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117732763#Comment_117732763

Or cycle on the road to the nearest junction? How far, 100m max? Maybe walk over to the cycle track and wheel the bike over the 36 metre high kerb?

The idea that people can’t access it is bizarre and just another to add to a litany of weirdness about this cycle track.

AndrewJRenko · 10-08-2021 2:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117732763#Comment_117732763

We don't build motorways with exits to every village or house. Infrastructure is never going to be door to door.

If we drop the barriers at every house, there will be parked cars all over the track. The barriers aren't there for cyclists. The barriers are there because we can't trust motorists to obey traffic markings.

tomasrojo · 10-08-2021 2:27pm

I have a slight issue using a trailer or cargo bike doing right turns in a scenario where I have to get out from behind a kerb separator and cross a lane or two to get to the right-turn lane. I've always managed it though. On a normal bike, I haven't ever had much trouble.

Really, in one place, the issue is that the council set up a box turn inside the cycle track, but I can't activate the pedestrian lights to do the box turn.

Weepsie · 10-08-2021 2:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117732722#Comment_117732722

So there is a residents group and WhatsApp group etc. We were told otherwise

Fighting Tao · 10-08-2021 2:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117733323#Comment_117733323

We were told that there were no entrances onto the cycle track too…

Shotser · 10-08-2021 4:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117733323#Comment_117733323

Not a Carysfort Avenue resident, in an estate off the road. It is the estates' residents association I am referring to.

10-08-2021 5:05pm

It isnt just the break/access zaney, its like banging your head off a brick wall here and now Fighting Tao wants the conversation shut down, its a rant according to him, his own contributions are sensible and well thought out though, sighs.

You would need continous breaks but then you have a very busy road which is also on a bus route. How can you get across this road on your bike with oncoming traffic, its going to be dark at 4PM in a few weeks and who wants their child either being driven at by motorists or else getting off their bike in a two way cycle lane to run across Carysfort Avenue.

This cycle lane has made cycling on this avenue more dangerous and again the existing cycling lanes in the area are in atrocious condition and have been for years.

The council has been contacted about all these issues,not that they should have to be, it should have been clear to whoever designed this lane that the width of it left no room for cylists on the opposite side of the road.

Locals are now choosing other routes home, ie if you are coming from the city its best to come up through Frascati Park and onto Convent Road, at least this way you only have to cross Carysfort Avenue once and not play chicken licken trying to cross at the Platter deli. This still means getting off the bike and crossing the by pass at the pedestrian lights at the shopping centre, this is what my daughter does.It was so much easier before to cycle through the village and up Carysfort Avenue.

There are definitely going to be serious accidents here once traffic is back to normal,its only a matter of time.

10-08-2021 5:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117731800#Comment_117731800

Oh my God

There is no room for cyclists as the cars are right up against the kerb and then you have the footpath, how can you not get this.

A car driver with a line of traffic behind him, and its usually a him blaring the horn could be stuck behind a cyclist going uphill from the Deli to Proby Square. As I said its going to be pitch dark in the afternoon soon and traffic will be much heavier, its not hard to see whats going to happen.

10-08-2021 5:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117731806#Comment_117731806

Is this the normal standard of debate on this forum.

Liam O · 10-08-2021 5:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117733996#Comment_117733996

If only there was some mechanism that you could stick on a bike that would turn the pitch darkness into something bright, alerting other road users that you're there. I think I've seen them on these cars you mention, otherwise they would be constantly banging into each other, right?

10-08-2021 5:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117731917#Comment_117731917

Yes, same thing there too if you dare to move into the traffic to continue onto Blackrock by pass.Its not busy like Carysfort Avenue though and you only have to cross one line of traffic.

You can avoid most of Carysfort Avenue by cycling through Barclay Court and coming through Brookfield. You will have the horns blared at you though if you take a left turn here and cycle on the road but at least you wont have it from the the beginning of the cycle lane.

TheHouseIRL · 10-08-2021 5:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117733996#Comment_117733996

I'd be getting onto your local councillors about the total lack of street lighting that Carysfort Avenue apparently suffers from. No wonder drivers are crashing into pillars.

Fighting Tao · 10-08-2021 5:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117733967#Comment_117733967

If you have problems with my posts then please report them. I do see yours as rants. You have moved the conversation to a set of views that you maintain of Carysfort Avenue cycle track and have been proved that your views are incorrect by a number of posters. So I stand by my thoughts that you are ranting about motorists and not contributing to any discussion on infrastructure.

10-08-2021 5:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117732722#Comment_117732722

Im sorry but when you refer to using public space to store private property I know you are a member of a cycling lobby group, its just nonsense.

You mention that residents in housing estates were worried about their housing estates being used for parking and then you say others with no parking at all should offer their on street parking up for the public good. The houses you refer to could be listed as are their railings and it isnt as simple as applying for permission for driveways. You sound so selfish, how would you like your property devalued if the on street parking was removed. I hate cycling on Carysfort Avenue now but thats my problem, taking away someone elses car park space might solve an issue for me but I do take others peoples interests and point of view into consideration.

And seconds when you are on your bike having a horn being blared at you feels like a very long time, its way more than seconds anyway, it could be quite a long time if traffic on the opposite side of the road is heavy.

That cycle lane was covered in wet leaves and conkers last year,saw it myself, there are huge trees overhanging it including a lovely conker tree, where do you think leaves go.

Traffic is mental on Carysfort Avenue and normal levels havent even returned,sight lines have not improved, if you were exiting Carysfort Park previously you turned left where the cycle lane is now. Now you have to come out so far across the road when exiting and cars turning in are going too wide.

The issue is reversing into driveways with cars speeding at you from both directions,it can take several manoevres in and out and this could be five times a day.

And what do the kids do when they get to Convent Road, off the bikes and back up onto the footpath I presume, do you think the residents on Convent Road should donate their off street parking to you too. Where do you live, can you donate the off street parking outside your house to someone working in Blackrock hospital, someone who isnt a consultant and who doesnt have a parking place.

Why do the children,( I havent seen any on the lane for weeks, never mind old people and entire families) need a road to cycle on when they have a park to cycle through to get to school.

Doubt if the majority of residents living on the actual avenue would agree and you would be of a very different opinion if you were impacted like they are.

10-08-2021 5:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117734050#Comment_117734050

If you are a bit elderly and you are reversing your car with oncoming cars speeding at you from both directions you might misjudge space too and damage your car.

i think you know this incident had nothing to do with lighting, I felt very sorry for this person, its not nice to live someone where for sixty years and then have changes made which impact on you and your ability to be independent.

10-08-2021 6:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117734139#Comment_117734139

Excuse me, no where have any of my points of view "proved" to be incorrect.

If you think weepsie calling me a fantastist means none of my real life experiences are true then I have news for you.

If you have problems with my "rants" then report them, if you already have in an attempt to shut down the conversation and you succeed then there isnt much I can do about that.

I will continue to post my opinion, if thats okay with you.!!!!!!!!!!

TheHouseIRL · 10-08-2021 6:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117734179#Comment_117734179

So you are satisfied with the level of lighting on Carysfort Avenue? I think some additional traffic calming, perhaps speed bumps, would be in order to reduce the speeding problem you describe on the avenue.

Mav11 · 10-08-2021 8:05pm

Parallel universe maybe? Or perhaps we're all talking about different Carysfort Aves? There is only one isn't there?

I am just back from my one and decided to take a phew photos. I didn't find any maniacal drivers either middle aged male or female. There was no frantic blaring of horns. I was a bit disappointed as I expected great sport from what I heard here.

Anyway Photos 1 and 2 show the Ave just after 6 this evening, rush hour on a Tuesday, not a quiet Sunday. All very calm, tranquil and peaceful. Plenty of access to houses on either side of the ave, all in all, not a bit like portrayed by some posts.

Interestingly, with all the old guff about not being able to reverse in or out of the east side of the Ave I noticed that most can turn in their gardens, if it was ever required, probably not. But on the way back about 7pm I caught photo 3 which shows the traffic still very calm and look, a truck backing into one of the houses on the east side.

Fancy that, if a truck can do it without problem!!!!!!!!!!!! Should have had a word with the competent driver.

AndrewJRenko · 10-08-2021 8:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117734179#Comment_117734179

If a driver is unable to reverse safely, they shouldn't be on the road. It is a basic skill.

In my experience, when a driver goes to reverse into a driveway, other traffic tends to stop and wait for a few seconds. But obviously normal rules don't apply in the Mad Max Thunderdome on Carysfort Avenue

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117734246#Comment_117734246

You're welcome to post opinions. You're not so welcome (in my humble opinion) to make false, nonsensical claims about cyclists being beeped off the road, and making sure you keep them nicely vague about when this is happening so that you can't be proven wrong.

What I suspect happened here is that one driver beeped at you once, and you've catastrophised this into the 'drivers beeping all the time' scenario that I don't believe and I suspect most others. I suspect that the main reason for your resistance is because you've found that traffic calming measures like this have calmed traffic and slowed you down a little, and you just don't like that.

Seth Brundle · 10-08-2021 10:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117733996#Comment_117733996

After reading each and every post you make, I'm even more convinced that Carysfort Ave needs to be closed to through traffic. Not once are you indicating an issue with the behaviour of road users apart from drivers. Not once have I read about a realistic issue with the cycling infrastructure in your posts.

Each and every post of yours goes further to convince us that the drivers around Blackrock are so incompetent that they should not be driving. There is nothing else there for us to judge. If you think the infrastructure has problems then list them (which you've not yet done) but so far all you have described us how poor some people's driving is. There is a very easy remedy to that!

10-08-2021 10:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117734614#Comment_117734614

Not a single cyclist in the double cycle lane.

If the road is as quiet as you claim how come a two way cycle lane is needed, I thought it was because its too dangerous to cycle on, scratches head.

The issue is reversing into the driveways with a line of traffic coming from both directions at you, I can see how someone would misjudge the width when reversing in, its nothing to be sneering about.I dont know how the size of anyones garden is relevant to this.

Did you try cycling on the opposite side of the road, you really cant comment until you have done this yourself.

And again even though I am beyond bored now, there is a continuous kerb on that cycle lane so you cannot make a right or left turn into your house if you live opposite the lane but not at a junction, this is so painful, Im not sure I have enough patience for any more of it.

PS, having horns blared at you and cars forcing you off a road is not great sport, Im glad someone finds it amusing, I just heave a sigh when I get back home in one piece.

Also please note in you second photo how close the line of cars are to the kerb, there isnt an inch of space for anyone to cycle there and cycle lane is empty.

TheHouseIRL · 10-08-2021 10:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117735317#Comment_117735317

Would you care to address the scourge of speeding drivers on Carysfort Avenue and how they might be addressed? Surely the cycle lane was needed to give cyclists refuge from the incredibly aggressive swerving, beeping, speeding motorists that clog up the avenue at all hours of the day and night.

10-08-2021 10:58pm

I have no idea, maybe address your concerns to the local Gardai and ask them to set up speed traps.

You cant put speed bumps on the road as its a bus route.

Its a very busy road in spite of whatever photos randomers cycle through post and it will be even busier come office workers returning, schools and colleges re opening, etc, etc and some people pay no regard to speed limits at all.

Its not just motorists speeding though, the lyrca clad Tour De France wannabees are a menace too, flying down the hill at full speed all sixteen, seventeen stone of them, that behaviour needs to be taken ownership of by the cycling lobby and dealt with.

10-08-2021 11:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117735180#Comment_117735180

I have listed at great length the problems with this infrastructure and I am not prepared to listen to anymore insulting belittling of my experiences.

Its like being rounded on by a pack of school bullies, a lesser person would leave you to your antics.

Cycle infrastructure planned for south Dublin

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