Space X

Capt'n Midnight · 10-06-2021 5:37pm

Poulgorm wrote: »

I am still not clear on the answer - the Starship (in the guise that reached 10 km and returned to earth a few weeks ago), will that be capable of putting a payload into orbit and then return to a soft landing on earth?

No because at this stage it's still an empty shell with just enough fuel and engines to get above the bulk of the atmosphere. Later versions will have more engines and gizmos and seats and stuff.

Even if it was Single Stage To Orbit it would be with Zero payload and no margin, and even then I'd doubt it.

One configuration with extra engines might be able to do 10,000km hops for the military.

5pTXsxV4YMqxRyLcKU26EL-970-80.jpg.webp

There's a picture around of a starship like craft with several trucks with the Red Cross symbol on them , because what other military use is there ? - ICRC will be very annoyed.

https://www.icrc.org/en/document/emblems

The use and misuse of the red cross, red crescent and red crystal emblems is clearly defined in law. The Geneva Conventions and their Additional Protocols contain several articles on the emblems.

Westernyelp · 10-06-2021 5:59pm

Poulgorm wrote:

I am still not clear on the answer - the Starship (in the guise that reached 10 km and returned to earth a few weeks ago), will that be capable of putting a payload into orbit and then return to a soft landing on earth?

Not without the booster

Poulgorm · 11-06-2021 9:49am

Another query: Why are NASA developing the SLS rocket? I assume it is costing billions to develop and will have (more or less) the same capabilities (in terms of payload) as the SpaceX Starship. But the NASA SLS rocket will not be re-usable, so it's hard to see how it will be commercially viable.

So, what is the thinking behind the SLS? Why do it?

josip · 11-06-2021 10:35am

Poulgorm wrote: »

Another query: Why are NASA developing the SLS rocket? I assume it is costing billions to develop and will have (more or less) the same capabilities (in terms of payload) as the SpaceX Starship. But the NASA SLS rocket will not be re-usable, so it's hard to see how it will be commercially viable.

So, what is the thinking behind the SLS? Why do it?

Pork barrelling.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pork_barrel

jogdish · 11-06-2021 11:03am

Poulgorm wrote: »

Another query: Why are NASA developing the SLS rocket? I assume it is costing billions to develop and will have (more or less) the same capabilities (in terms of payload) as the SpaceX Starship. But the NASA SLS rocket will not be re-usable, so it's hard to see how it will be commercially viable.

So, what is the thinking behind the SLS? Why do it?

As mentioned political reasons, but also:
Starship doesn't exist yet and has never made it past 10k, it will eventually but progress will be slow, and more slow once you start advertising it as for cargo and way slower once you want people on it.
SLS uses known tech that works and works really well, the engines are solid and preform well as do the recycled shuttle ones. They are putting people on it on mission 2, it might be mission 200 before starship has a person.
SLS was in development hell for forever, and political winds change, long before spaceX was even thinking about starship.

Could SLS have been better for sure, but it's essentially ready, people are working on it and it works let's use it. Also better to have companies and contractors working rather than letting knowledge slip away because the machine guy took a different job. None of this ideal.

Capt'n Midnight · 11-06-2021 11:23am

Poulgorm wrote: »

Another query: Why are NASA developing the SLS rocket? I assume it is costing billions to develop and will have (more or less) the same capabilities (in terms of payload) as the SpaceX Starship. But the NASA SLS rocket will not be re-usable, so it's hard to see how it will be commercially viable.

So, what is the thinking behind the SLS? Why do it?

Pork barrels and corporate welfare.

It's money for old rope.

The SLS is built from flight proven Space Shuttle left overs. Literally.

Using RD-25 engines that have already gone to orbit.
And SRB segments that have flown before om a total of 40 missions

The current iteration of SLS can put about the same payload into LEO as you can for $150m (retail) with a Falcon Heavy vs $146 million for each new RS-25 engine and SLS uses four of them.

SLS has a cyrogenic upper stage but it can trace it's history back to the early 1960's.

The service module is imported from Europe. It's derived from the ATV cargo craft used to support the ISS.

Even the R&D was already done because of the billions spent on previous projects like Shuttle-C Aries Constellation CaLV etc. etc.

SLS is cobbled together from off the shelf flight-proven hardware and is insanely over budgeted so there is no excuse for failure other than corporate greed.

It's money for old rope.

/RANT

Capt'n Midnight · 11-06-2021 11:50am

jogdish wrote: »

They are putting people on it on mission 2, it might be mission 200 before starship has a person.
SLS was in development hell for forever, and political winds change, long before spaceX was even thinking about starship.

SLS block 1 and Falcon Heavy can put similar loads into LEO.

You have to compare Starship to future versions of SLS. Even then since Starship can be refuelled it could take twice the payload that SLS block 2 can onwards.

Dragon can navigate and dock with the ISS. So you could assemble larger payloads in LEO. Crew don't need to fly up on Heavy or Starship.

Could SLS have been better for sure, but it's essentially ready, people are working on it and it works let's use it. Also better to have companies and contractors working rather than letting knowledge slip away because the machine guy took a different job. None of this ideal.

The knowledge had for the most part already slipped away and had to be reinvented. SLS is so delayed it's already lost some of the missions that justified it's existence.

Until it flies we don't know if it's ready. SLS is not Apollo, there isn't the same national pride , cold war "not on my watch" work ethic involved. And Boeing have had inexcusable issues with software and hardware on aircraft and spacecraft recently.

Thanks to modern technology like 3D printing and better robot welding and not needing reusability each engine now costs more than an entire rocket that can do a similar job

Shlippery · 14-06-2021 2:24pm

Not sure how I missed this- but excellent eye candy at the potential orbital test flight.

It's going to be some spectacle whenever it gets the greenlight.

firemansam4 · 15-06-2021 6:33pm

The launch tower for Starship is progressing well, up to half its finished height now...

https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-starship-launch-tower-half-height/

jogdish · 01-07-2021 7:56pm

Super heavy booster rolling out, amazing and this is only the start. Will be insane to see sn20 atop and boosting off! This one is only for static pad tests, unclear if it will even do static fires, no engines installed as of yet.

Shlippery · 15-07-2021 10:18am

~~Static fire for Booster potentially lined up for NET July 15! (today!)~~

Aaand road closure cancelled, so won't be today.

Shlippery · 20-07-2021 12:31am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Cl5wrUffk0

Will we get a booster static fire in the next few hours!? :D

Quantum Erasure · 20-07-2021 12:47am

current estimate, static fire in 20 mins

Quantum Erasure · 20-07-2021 1:11am

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1417274819461095432

full duration (of about a second) static fire completed

7:05 local CDT time on the video above

Shlippery · 02-08-2021 6:36pm

Booster 4 fully stacked with 29 raptors attached.

Could be some fun static fires coming soon. Crazy progress made in past week or so

Westernyelp · 02-08-2021 8:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117696140#Comment_117696140

FAA could be the hold up at this stage. Remarkable moving from SpaceX

Shlippery · 03-08-2021 4:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117696689#Comment_117696689

True, read a few articles on it.

https://twitter.com/SpaceX/status/1422368427369402370 - it's damn impressive! The 3 raptors from the Starship test campaign so far were always beastly, cannot wait to hear 29 roaring at once. Wow.

Fred Cryton · 03-08-2021 5:12pm

There will surely be serious noise issues with 30+ raptors. Have we seen any noise dampening technical innovations or is it a case of keep it well away from everyone?

Shlippery · 03-08-2021 6:06pm

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1422603106035118085

Also a response to a render of the catch mechanism. Wild

edit: Booster on the move to the pad. the size of it.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1422607954101084161 :O

Westernyelp · 03-08-2021 9:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117700632#Comment_117700632

That's why they are returning the two oil rigs. Sea launches well away from the population once the real ships are flying.

Shlippery · 04-08-2021 2:32pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t705r8ICkRw%20

I skimmed through it because I can't claim to understand a whole lot of it, but the behind the scenes look is amazing!

edit: Booster 4 being lifted onto the launch pad

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyHVskV5SAI

jogdish · 05-08-2021 1:17pm

ugh, changeover and I get no notifications for this thread.

It's amazing the push the have made, I think its a full stack for a photo op, de stack to finish the plumbing and the 'for show' raptors, test fire S20 and B4 seperatly, re stack, some tests and then hopefully a sub orbital flight.

Shlippery · 05-08-2021 2:59pm

sexy s20 on the move.

tpms tiles look great

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzvMbxaj15Y

.42. · 05-08-2021 3:03pm

Will they be stacking SN20 on the booster directly or do some static fires on the ship first?

Shlippery · 05-08-2021 7:50pm

Looks like they're going to stack it today! No idea how the static fires will work, but yeah, probably just to get some photos and see how it'll look.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1423353739394514949

Quantum Erasure · 06-08-2021 8:39am

https://twitter.com/austinbarnard45/status/1423472597681979396

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1423516703829417986https%3A//twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1423516703829417986

sex number

Shlippery · 06-08-2021 4:11pm

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1423659261452709893

Stacked this morning, looks like mainly to test the waters, see everything snaps together nicely and grab few photos - it's been separated again - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhJRzQsLZGg

Guess they're gonna figure out the static fires and tidy things up a bit while the FAA decides what it's gonna do.

Can't wait to see what they do with the tower 'Mechazilla'.

irishgeo · 06-08-2021 6:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117716188#Comment_117716188

Read the following.

Stack as a test then unstack.

Test the booster and starship seperately then restack for test flight.

Capt'n Midnight · 06-08-2021 10:42pm

Liberty Hall is 195 feet tall. This stack just over twice that at 395 feet. (120m)

Makes it taller than SLS, Saturn V, N1, Ares-X. Tallest rocket so far.

Pic - look at the guys in the cherry picker where the Starship sits on the booster.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E8HaippVIAEsnIG?format=jpg&name=large

Quantum Erasure · 07-08-2021 1:24am

same height as the spire in O'Connell Street (which is also stainless steel), but three times as wide as the base of it, and on top of a maybe 70 foot stand...

Quantum Erasure · 07-08-2021 4:05am

https://twitter.com/thegarrettscott/status/1423831242991181824

click for full pics

3d4life · 07-08-2021 8:44pm

First two parts of tour of Boca Chica with E.M.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t705r8ICkRw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SA8ZBJWo73E

I need to know about the mutt that does the tour with the group ( at 46:59 part 2 = and many other times https://youtu.be/SA8ZBJWo73E?t=2819 )...Is he the Boca Chica security dog, or perhaps Elon's pet :)

jogdish · 07-08-2021 8:53pm

Tim is on NSF live now, I think the dog is called Marvin the Martin and he is Elons

On a side note, the gushing over Elon from Tim is a bit much at times.

3d4life · 07-08-2021 9:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117721400#Comment_117721400

Thanks for the mutt info :)

I'd cut Tim a lot of slack on this...in the past and even now in any other company this would be 'classified' with not a chance of a youtuber getting inside the facility.

Shlippery · 07-08-2021 9:41pm

I think the factory tour is fascinating, it's one thing seeing the cams from NSF, but seeing the full walkthrough with Elon was damn cool. He's an odd character but memes aside, he's passionate about his work. It's much more fun watch Tim and Elon shoot the **** in a relaxed way than if it were just a boring corporate video. Would love a trip to Boca Chica some day!

I've the Lego Saturn V rocket and knowing the Starship/Booster combo is bigger than it is mindblowing!

jogdish · 07-08-2021 10:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117721467#Comment_117721467

Sory, didn't mean to come across as mean to Tim, he makes top notch researched content. I get a bit sick of the Elon stuff at times, Tim is happy and doing a great job, fair play to him.

The One Doctor · 07-08-2021 10:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117721663#Comment_117721663

Tim is a Space X fanboy who'd masturbate to Elon's pic on camera if he could get away with it. Sickening stuff, the man has a big problem. Or maybe he's gay and is panting for Musk.

3d4life · 07-08-2021 10:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117721578#Comment_117721578

Yea !

What chance that the head honcho from one of the old NASA contractors would walk one of their facilities with a youtuber ?

Elon style does seem to polarize people...its something that needs to be looked thru.

There is some pretty sound product development advice near the start of the first part ( from 10min to 30min ? ) ... its all stuff that Elon learned the hard way in Tesla :)

Westernyelp · 08-08-2021 12:07am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117721679#Comment_117721679

Comments like this add nothing to this thread IMO

Capt'n Midnight · 08-08-2021 11:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117721578#Comment_117721578

https://i.imgur.com/Czdt7Ys.jpg

Did someone say Lego colours ? The cherry pickers give it a Thunderbird 3 vibe. Tower is 246m. Three Liberty Hall's would be 237.6m tall. You can see that they only have 99% of the tiles on Starship so far. More exited about this flight than SLS.

LARGE version well worth a gander https://i.imgur.com/Czdt7Ys.jpg

3d4life · 09-08-2021 10:27pm

There are people over on the construction forum that need to know about the cherry pickers and crane :)

Beeker · 10-08-2021 6:41pm

Really enjoyed that interview, some amount of information passed and fascinating to watch Elon's thought process in real time.

Beeker · 10-08-2021 6:52pm

Its going to be a beast

Capt'n Midnight · 10-08-2021 8:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117734379#Comment_117734379

It's a beast.

Consider that a the planned Starships to Mars would have life support and radiators. A pair of fully loaded Starships back to back would mass about the same as the ISS. They'd have a surface area facing the sun a bit less that the ISS solar panels but newer panels are more efficient as per recent ISS upgrades.

Putting about 100 tonnes to LEO is one thing. Being able to top it up with about 900 tonnes of propellent from other Starships while in LEO puts it in a class of it's own for stuff further out in space.

3d4life · 11-08-2021 6:10pm

Part 3 of Boca Chica tour

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Zlnbs-NBUI

jogdish · 11-08-2021 6:17pm

Just watched part 3, the steel the size is amazing to get such access! Not sure how much I believe Elon randomly turned up (perhaps its not indedted to come across as such, in part one some lad had a steady cam )