Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

You said "any venue running full capacity indoor gigs have a vaccinated-only entrance policy". I simply asked what countries are doing that? Bit strange to turn that around and try to ignore it and ask a different question - I never made an statement about other countries with no restrictions. So can you show what countries are doing that (vaccine only access to gigs)?

You're asking the wrong people, these are figures that public health officials should be able to think up and our leaders should be on the telly telling us. Personally if everybody in an enclosed space is vaccinated the risk is minimal regardless of social distancing or ventilation

The UK are doing it, they're the most relevant to us. I couldn't care less who else is doing it.

The point is if we have everyone vaccinated in September why can't we have indoor events with full capacity? Or at the very least outdoor ones. It makes zero sense. What's the end game here exactly?

What gigs were those? Lollapollooza in Chicgo allowed entry to vaccinated as well as those unvaccinated with a negative PCR in the last 72 hours

Bring your vaccine card or proof of negative COVID-19 test within the last 72 hours

We will never have 100% vaccination. There are people who can't get vaccinated due to medical reasons. DO you think they are nut jobs?

If the aim is 100% vaccination before we can get back to our lives, then we might as well give up now as that is an impossible goal to set and utterly pointless. We're already at c.80% and heading for 90% and the returns are diminishing. Vaccinating a load of 18 and 19 years olds has little or no impact on the overall case numbers and especially has very little impact on hospitalisations or deaths. Attitudes like yours that we need 100% vaccination is as useless as the anti-vax nutjobs you are talking about. Extreme views either way are of zero benefit in the overall conversation.

@taxiperson wrote:

I agree in principle that there's a lot of burying of heads in the sand, and a refusal to engage on a lot of specific issues from our government. At the very least, we should by now have some general indications for September rather than a commitment to provide a plan for September at the end of August (WTF).

The point mainly is that organisers can't do anything about it. They can't commit a pile of time and money to an event that may not get licences. What is happening in other jurisdictions is irrelevant from a legal point of view. The fact that Belfast is going ahead doesn't prove that Belfast is "safe" and Dublin is not. It could equally prove that Belfast doesn't care about infections and Dublin does.

As a rule, any appeal that "The UK is doing it" to me tells us that not doing it is probably the right call. The UK has made a complete balls of every decision since David Cameron was re-elected in 2015, providing a blueprint for the rest of us on what NOT to do.

Just on the UK making a balls of every decision since Cameron

Cameron called for the Brexit vote, the vaccine rollout in the UK is far superior and was much faster than most of the world, not just Ireland... Also, and this is surprising, case numbers are significantly down in recent weeks

Yes - there is a plan for September onwards being made, presumably now, to be announced by the end of the month

What exactly have the UK done wrong other than existing (and therefore drawing your ire)?

They vaccinated those at risk, and reopened - and keep relaxing restrictions based on an acceptable level of virus spread. What is bad about that?

And better yet, what would be the alternative? Indefinite restrictions?

I guess there's a debate to had over the UK vaccination programme. Whether it was a case of managing to not make things worse, or actively making them better. On a national level perhaps there's a good benefit, but at what cost. The EU could have doubled the speed of its rollout by copying the UK and engaging in vaccine hoarding; to the detriment of the UK. The UK could have opted for a shared vaccination approach with the EU and tighter restrictions at home. Which to me, is a better all-round solution; economic and social cohesion and minimised deaths. That's a different thread though.

@timmyntc wrote:

As one example? The UK is an island nation that managed to have one of the worst cases/deaths per capita in the world from Covid. They have always had the option to exercise completely control over their borders but chose not to. They could have been New Zealand with a fast vaccine rollout.

Not this tripe again - New Zealand and Australia are totally different to the UK and Ireland.

Not all islands are the same - our proximity to Europe (and UKs) means that supply lines for things like food and other essential goods are all heavily dependent on transiting through EU (or sourcing from EU directly).

It would be chaos with food and medicine shortages were the UK (or Ireland) to try and shut the borders like that. Not to mention the diplomatic ramifications. No doubt if the UK had followed such an approach people such as yourself would be lambasting them for an insular selfish approach.

Not sure why you are baiting me.

An ultra-restrictive digital ID affects everyone negatively - it's not just a bugbear of one or two irritated randomers.

The US, France and Italy also allow negative test results.

How does it affect everybody negatively? Say I want to go to the pub tonight and I'm fully vaxed. I can do that without being negatively affected no?

I'm guessing, but the criticism is not directed at the organisers or their insurers.

I suspect that the target is probably the utterly incompetent authorities - government, scientists, administrators, "health experts" and such like.

Clueless idiots, can't grasp the concept of checking how much virus is circulating, how sick it makes people, or how to organise test events. We are going from no attendance events to 40000 attendances in the blink of an eye, with no major action to explain why they think they are able to sanction this.

Has anybody in authority thought that maybe looking for volunteers to attend a match and submit for testing before and a couple of days after.

How about just testing to see what numbers are circulating - no name/address records required. Just identify the sample by Gender and age.