Lets be real here: The Children's Hospital is a scam

And here you have it.

This is the very reason why James was picked after the Mater got kicked to touch.

A lot of it is all about the consultants and professors.

Perish the thought the over paid fookers would have to wander out to the sticks past the M50.

And yes in comparison to lots of other Western states they damn well are overpaid.

It's Ireland... for all the talk of social and liberal progressivism, it's still the same corrupt, nepotistic and immature backwater it's always been I'm afraid.

We just have better PR than some of those nations in Africa and elsewhere.

Am I wrong in my understanding that a large part of the initial cost creep was down to the state ushering BAM into beginning the build before final designs were finished? I think this revealed at an oireachtas session or in a statement from BAM at some point early in the works, no?

I don't doubt for a second that BAM are a crowd of money-sucking sh*tes and they will make hay in such a situation but if the above is accurate, our civil service and their cronies have to accept a large portion of the blame here?

It's not rocket science.

Going into a city center site (as opposed to a green field site) there was a good chance they would hit unknown problems underground and they did.

The site is constricted due to its location (it's too small) and there's already a hospital on site that was also going to increase the cost.

The design is an oval. Once you get into weird shapes it's gets more expensive.

They changed the design and spec (just like grand designs) after they started. That's before you get into problems with the contract.

Co-location wasn't intended to override every thing especially cost, number of beds etc. But IMO it became that to justify the Mater site. There was a lot of professional medical advice against the mater site.

By the time James came around the whole "Get it done" mindset took over and any criticism was framed as just delaying the hospital and won't you think of the children.

All that's old history. Those that wanted the city site and/or "get it done" have got exactly what they ordered.

It's too big to fail and will be made work regardless of any problems or cost.

Well you asked the question.

It's obvious why it's so expensive. It's a classic white elephant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_elephant

Real reason for the costs is shoehorning it into the wrong location.

Reason for location is to suit the existing consultants who had a deal (from 2008) to get private practice doors/offices if it was built there.

Would have been better pay them off.

https://www.thejournal.ie/private-clinic-national-childrens-hospital-4647215-May2019/

At this point it's like trying to pour petrol on a fire to put it out.

It's nearly there though. Is there actually a opening date yet?

Was thinking of creating a invoice myself for something , lights or windows or anything for 60K if i can get the HSE accounts department , chances are i could get 60K for nothing paid into my account as part of the eventual 5 Billion outlay.

Does anyone in the public sector care about taxpayers money?

The HSE have lots of account departments, one for each of the old Health Boards. Reminds me of a story of when they had a project to archive old paper invoices on to the new fangled medium of CD. When they tested the end result, the first random PO number entered brought up the same invoice twice and they thought there was something wrong with the database. On investigation it was discovered the supplier had sent a copy invoice, but they had paid both invoices.

Thanks @Lefty2Guns for clarifying. A quantities tender sounds bizarre and I wouldn't be familiar with this approach in EU tendering.. most projects I'm involved in the main contractor is responsible for sourcing materials, purchasing them and putting them together using whatever means necessary to complete the job within spec and within the budget!

What do you mean by a tender based on quantities.. priced on quantities of materials required, priced per sqm of finished building??

If it had been built in dublin west it would have been much cheaper to build on a large site, it s more expensive to build in central dublin they also have to build car parks not every one lives in dublin there's plenty of empty green spaces near Dublin west . Builders have to submit tenders I doubt they will have knowledge of the other bids , this is all done on computers

Of course it would have been a lot cheaper to build it 3 years ago

It will be built to a very high standard . Yes the traffic there is busy ftom 7am to 7pm not a great location

Hospitals and public transport are not aspects that seem to be planned together.

Here in Kilpedder, Wicklow, we used to have an A&E and general hospital facilities available to us in Loughlinstown. The 133 bus ran the length of the N11 from Wicklow town and stopped right outside the hospital. Then Loughlinstown was downgraded and St Vincents became the bottleneck of choice for the planners in the HSE.

The nearest 133 stop to Vincent's, leaves you with a good hike walk to the hospital, as would the nearest DART stop. Using any public transport option to Vincent's from this area would have you starting out the night before with a flask of soup and sambo's and an overnight bag, in case you can't get back home.

Yet, there is an impressive graphic display at the entrance lobby in Vincent's outlining how connectable it is by public transport. The sign would suggest that there is a coordinated transport hub in the basement where local and regional buses and DART trains are all available and waiting. The reality is that none of these services actually pass through the hospital and most require a level of fitness to walk to the hospital.

'Center of excellence' facilities seem great on paper, providing you can get to them and they can handle the demand when you do get there. To the people of Navan now campaigning to hold on to your hospital, keep the fight going. Ask the questions that we did when Loughlinstown was downgraded ... why has the HSE allowed it to become a safety risk?.... just so they can close it?. Why not upgrade it and take the demand and delay out of Dublin? Wicklow has suffered from Loughlinstown's status change... the main difference patients now experience is longer distances to travel, with less public transport options and more lengthy delays when you get there.

I don't have much hope that the children's hospital will be as smart and efficient as the money being sunk into it, would expect.

our multinational pharma companies have far bigger budgets for cleaning as shown during covid, (litterally had teams of people walking behind you cleaning hand rails etc) and their clean rooms are obviously cleaner than any hospital, they use modular building and the are built in a year. Nothing fancy and higher grade than a hospital!

I didn't say that they did, but they DO have everything to do with restricting traffic flow, removing lanes and parking spaces, and other measures to try and force people out of their cars.

That's fine and all - until you remember that PT in Dublin is still pretty poor outside of some high profile routes, that there's no DART or LUAS serving most of the northside of the city, and that from many towns outside the extended city boundaries (Maynooth, Naas etc) it's often wholly inadequate or non-existent.

The new Perth Children's hospital is hardly a plain box, with plenty of curves and asymetry, and yet it cost a significant amount less per bed, so shape clearly isn't a real issue here.