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Australian Response

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  • Registered Users Posts: 715 ✭✭✭gral6


    More ''good'' news frim Australia.


    ''Government of South Australia imposed an extra two-week quarantine for athletes returning via Sydney from the Tokyo Games, meaning a 28 days of quarantine in total.

    The additional quarantine requirement for athletes currently isolating in Sydney, the capital of New South Wales, comes on top of the two weeks mandated for all arrivals from overseas.

    "Due to the high risk of the Delta strain of Covid-19 in NSW, anyone travelling from New South Wales must undertake 14 days quarantine upon entry into South Australia," the state said in a statement.''

    Imagine, if we followed their CovidZero BS, this is the same situation we‘d be in now. Australia is finished as a country.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,343 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Unsurprisingly, some residents are starting to get uncomfortable with the policing of these restrictions, which they feel are disproportionately aimed at lower income and immigrant communities




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,111 ✭✭✭✭josip


    As regards the South Australian athletes having to do 14 days quarantining after already quarantining for 14 days in Sydney, the only reason I can think for this is that SA believes the NSW quarantine facilities to be either ineffective, or worse, a potential source of Covid spreading? Perhaps someone here knows the real/better reason?

    https://www.bbc.com/sport/olympics/58172665

    I'd also wonder why the SA govt decided to announce the rule when it was too late for some of the athletes. Why didn't they liaise with the AOC so that the SA athletes came back in direct or via Melbourne? It's not a big deal from a Covid perspective, but it's sh1tty treatment of those representing their country. There were no V-day heroes in 1973.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,636 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus



    First thing to understand; SA doesn't have special rules for Olympic athletes. These are the general rules.

    Second thing; it isn't a rule they just made up. It's been in place for a while. If it comes as a surprise to the Olympic Committee, that's because the Olympic Committee didn't think to check until now. But, in truth, I doubt that it comes as a surprise to them.

    The rule: In general, people are not permitted to enter SA from NSW.

    Exceptions: There are a number of exceptions, one of which is for returning international travellers who have landed in Sydney. This is the one the Olympic athletes who reside in SA will be availing of. Anyone who has landed in Sydney will of course have completed 14 days hotel quarantine before they can return to SA. Up to last month SA would allow them to enter without further restrictions, but then there was a 7-day lockdown in Adelaide triggered by a returning international traveller who had contracted Covid while in quarantine in Sydney, returned to Adelaide, was out in the community while infectious and sparked the Modbury cluster. So now if an international traveller returns to SA, having been in quarantine in another state, they are required to complete 14-days self-isolation (at home, not in a quarantine facility) before going into the community.

    It would be irrational to denounce Australia's lockdowns, and also to denounce measures that Australia takes to avoid the need for lockdowns.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 83,287 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    They have a relatively tiny population of 25 million on an island, they have made a complete and utter balls of it. They should be at the UK level of response, similar independent approach was possible.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 254 ✭✭Iecrawfc


    ahhhm 14 Million Australians are currently under lockdown, the other 10 are a case or two away from lockdown. I think its a Billion a week its costing have Sydney and Melbourne, the 2 biggest economic delivers, under lockdown.

    The Delta Variant and Zero Covid strategy have crashed hard in Australia and the politicians are all at sea, wouldnt suprise me if Sydney went it alone and tried to 'live with the virus' while the other states tried to eliminate.

    They've really done a reverse Bradbury sitting on their hands feeling smug as the rest of the world dealt with the virus and now are paying for that complacency.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,636 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Oh, I agree. But we are where we are.

    "Living with the virus" isn't really a viable option - epidemiologically, politically or economically - when you have a largely unvaccinated population, and the delta variant. It might not surprise you if the NSW government tried it, but it would astonish me. They would be crucified by the voters.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,588 ✭✭✭derfderf


    I think the part people who don't live here are missing is how "tolerant" people are of lockdowns here, and why. In Ireland they were locked down for the best part of 16 months. They didn't really get to see the differences. The lockdowns in NSW have been so successful to date, people are screaming for them as soon as there's a couple of cases. Victoria may be different, but there's no serious lockdown fatigue in NSW (yet).

    At the moment, any moves to live with the virus would be the end of Gladys. It may be a different story if we're still here in November.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,122 ✭✭✭✭Gael23


    All they have done is throw the can down the road for 18 months.

    if Sydney needs to get to zero they will be in lockdown for much of the remainder of this year. What an inhuman nation to quarantine people for a month



  • Registered Users Posts: 254 ✭✭Iecrawfc


    I can only speak for Melbourne but I think is a certain amount of 'lockdown fatique' here after the long lockdown last year, which was also quite hardcore, the constant opening and then closing again is demoralising people too. I too detect alot of anti lockdown/ vaccine hesitancy (interestingly seem to go hand in hand with people). I think there is high expectantcy that vaccines will be the end of it, but can't see how the reaction to 1500-2000 cases a day will be anthing less than unmitigated panic among media and people in general. The population have been conditioned to accept nothing less than 0 for the moment, you can't turn that sentiment around in a few months.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,636 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    That's the thing; we know that early and hard lockdown does (mostly) result in short and effective lockdowns. Relative normality is mostly restored fairly quickly, with few cases and very few deaths. That's a pretty good result. It would be both brave and stupid to depart from a working model to one that would almost certainly have disastrous outcomes.

    The advent of the Delta variant means that this model doesn't work quite as well as it used to , but it also means that (given low rates of vaccination) abandoning this model would have much more dire outcomes than it would have had 6 or 12 months ago. So the stakes are higher but the odds haven't changed, so to speak. The rational course is to keep doing what we've been doing until effective vaccination can change the situation.

    And there is still strong political support for that. There are objectors, of course, but there are far more supporters of the strategy. Government will not want that to change. The population, as you say, expects nothing less than zero cases at the moment and, to be honest, it is not the public interest or in the political interest of the government for that expection to change until high rates of vaccination have been acheived.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,218 ✭✭✭snowcat


    The high rates of vaccination may actually help new variants emerge. While the vaccines will protect against severe outcomes they are not so good at preventing transmission or infection. Thus allowing spread and new variants to emerge that may defeat the vaccines completely. Herd immunity is unlikely with Covid as a result of transmission occuring in vaccinated people. Also the fact that animals get Covid means we would have to vax all of them as well. Vaccines together with full restrictions for vaxxed and un vaxxed seems to be the solution. With travel and countries having wildly different vaccination rates and lockdown strategies however any country may struggle to get herd immunity.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,111 ✭✭✭✭josip


    It seems that although cats and dogs can equally get Covid, only cats transmit it.

    So a cat eradication program would be sufficient to solve that problem.

    https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/daily-life-coping/animals.html



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,218 ✭✭✭snowcat




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,636 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Herd immunity isn't a simple binary; you can have higher and lower levels of herd immunity. Vaccines don't have to completely prevent transmission or infection in order to contribute to a useful degree of herd immunity; they just have to reduce them to a significant degree.

    The point of mass vaccination is to induce herd immunity and, as a result of mass vaccinations we consider ourselves to have heard immunity from measles, TB, whooping cough, etc. All these diseases still exist and people do contract them, even vaccinated people; all that herd immunity means is that even the unvaccinated are much less likely to contract them, because they are much less likely to encounter an infectious individual.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,519 ✭✭✭HBC08




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭wassie


    Its too easy to look at this from the Irish perspective and our geographic location. Australia is a multicultural country with a large number of citizens and permanent residents (including large numbers of international students) originally from other countries close by in region that are currently suffering very badly at the moment.

    In the last few days the numbers of new daily cases being reported in these countries is staggering. eg India 40k, Indonesia 35k, Malaysia 20k. Is it any wonder Aus & NZ have their borders locked down to help keep this tidal wave at bay that is literally on their doorstep. Sadly there is little reporting in our media about these countries, but rather on a few hundred cases in part of Australia.

    Post edited by wassie on


  • Registered Users Posts: 715 ✭✭✭gral6


    India 40k...Do you know what India's population?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭wassie


    I do. Your point?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,111 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Are you saying that because the AOC didn't properly check the protocols, the SA athletes have an additional 14 days quarantine?

    That's not what the SMH says:

    "...The cricketer’s predicament came as it emerged the South Australian government also blindsided a group of returning Olympians by alerting the Australian Olympic Committee they would have to quarantine twice if they landed in Sydney, but only after the athletes had already left Japan."

    https://www.smh.com.au/sport/devastating-sa-double-quarantine-sprung-on-olympians-while-flying-home-from-tokyo-20210812-p58i85.html



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Australia gets as much coverage as other Asian countries. Most of our media stories are homegrown but you'd have to say their approach is unfathomable to people on these shores when we've had 20,000 cases in the last two weeks. It also seems exclusively brutal at times in its approach but not so say those who live there. It is their approach and they have to stick with it but it's not one we would ever follow.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12 Seamus Ó Dubhghaill


    Crikey - Australia's capital Canberra goes into a 7-day lockdown after just one case of Covid is discovered. One !



  • Registered Users Posts: 274 ✭✭Not in Kansas


    I've been dipping in and out of Australian politics and their Covid response as I've so many family members and friends living there. It's sad to see the virus taking hold there, particularly in New South Wales where the premier is smug beyond belief and the health minister is a misogynistic moron.

    Each country will have their if-only moment to look back on. Obviously it's December 2020 and the tragic aftermath for Ireland.

    If only Australia's vaccine procurement and subsequent messaging had gone differently, they would be best placed in the world right now for a return to some type of normality.

    Really hoping the worst doesn't come to pass down under.

    Post edited by Not in Kansas on


  • Registered Users Posts: 715 ✭✭✭gral6


    If they have put every foreign arrival into MHQ for 4 weeks, not just their Olympic heroes, they would have been in much better position now!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,636 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    I'm gonna hazard a guess that that story was briefed by a rather defensive AOC. If they were blindsided by this news, it can only be because they hadn't bothered to check the SA Dept of Health web page detailing SA travel restrictions, where the information was available for anyone to read.

    And it's quite possible they hadn't bothered to check it - they may have seen it as their job to get the team back to Australia, with individual athletes returning to their own homes around the country being very much a secondary matter. It's common for national institutions based in the metropolitan cities of Sydney and Melbourne, especially those with an international focus, to give little thought to purely local concerns outside the Eastern states.

    You may think the SA policy is unreasonably tough, but the AOC definitely stuffed up by not bothering to check what it was. Other sporting organisations have managed to negotiate these obstacles.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 83,287 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    Next election in Australia is May 2022, when the current approach will be decided.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,023 ✭✭✭tabby aspreme


    Cat eradication in a country that has a mouse and rabbit plague, mightn't be a good idea



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,636 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus



    Not so simple - this is a joint state/federal policy. While immigration (and therefore international travel restrictions and quarantine for international arrivals) is a federal matter, health generally (and therefore lockdowns, social distancing and other restrictions, domestic travel restrictions, Covid testing and treatment) is a state matter. But much of what the states and territories do on those matters is financed by the federal government, which gives the feds some influence. Financial support for those affected by lockdown has been mainly provided by the federal government but the states are now doing a bit more in that regard. Vaccination administration is technically a state matter but the federal government has assumed responsibility for procurement and for much of the administration. They have made enough of a hames of it that the state governments have reasserted themselves and are now involved in administration (but still not in procurement).

    In short, various aspects of pandemic policy are so intertwined that in practice they all have to be negotiated, and a joint federal/state approach agreed.

    This process is being managed through the "national cabinet" which is a joint meeting of the federal prime minister and the premiers/first ministers of the states and territories. (It works on a nonpartisan basis, which is fortunate for the current (Liberal) government, since 5 of the 9 members of the national cabinet are Labour premiers/chief ministers.) The national cabinet process is generally seen to have worked pretty well.

    Even if there's a change of government in the federal election in May 2022, that only changes one seat on the national cabinet. The other eight members form their own view about what implications that has for them.

    Since the pandemic started five of the nine members of the national cabinet have faced elections (Queensland, Tasmania, Western Australia, the Northern Territory, the Australian Capital Territory). In each case the sitting government has been returned, which they are likely to take as an affirmation of the pandemic management policies they have been pursuing. So even if there's a change of government at the next federal election, that won't necessarily be a game-changer as regards pandemic policy. State and territory heads of government will ask themselves if the federal election outcome reflects public dissatisfaction with pandemic management policies (as opposed to other election issues) and, if it does, whether the national mood about that is mirrored in their own state or territory.

    Much will of course depend on whether the opposition wins the election of a platform promising a different approach to pandemic management, or basically the same approach, just more competently executed, or something in between. So far they have certainly not been calling for a different approach, but who knows what their position will be next May?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭wassie


    Cats, specifically feral cats, are a big problem in Australia threatening much of the native fauna. They are a declared pest and are already subject to eradication programs in certain parts of the country. That being said any domestic cat program wont be on the cards.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,343 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Just 21 days to stop the spread now. Good luck with that. Given the language being used by the authorities in this article, you'll need it 😱 what could possibly go wrong?


    I wonder what the next step will be when these don't work? This is already pretty extreme.

    "To curb movement, more restrictions will come into effect from midnight on Monday and NSW Police will launch 'Operation Stay Home' — a 21-day crackdown with increased penalties.

    To assist with the operation, the NSW Police have requested an additional 500 members of the Australian Defence Force, who will join the already 300 ADF personnel on the ground.

    NSW Police Commissioner Mick Fuller said too many people were using excuses relating to exercise, the singles bubble and regional travel and they needed to close these gaps.

    "I honestly think we can get NSW of lockdown quicker [with these powers]," he said.

    "These are some of the strongest powers we’ve ever had in the history of the NSW Police Force, as part of the government’s strategy to get in front of the virus in the coming weeks – it's all about getting ahead of Delta, not chasing it."





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