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New Alternative News Channel "GB News" chaired by Andrew Neil launching - read OP before posting

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Comments

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,612 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    He's also conflating Communism and Socialism. Think I've another bingo.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    There is nothing "shite" about the claim that both communism and Nazism advocated a bigger state; nationalization etc.; both concentrated power at the centre; and both led to purges of the opposition, including socialists and counter-revolutionaries. Nothing "shite" about the claim that they opposed capitalism. And nothing "shite" about the claim they both had a vision for the population of some perfect utopia that must be reached no matter what. Nothing "shite" about the claim that both advocated the use of force to attain that vision.

    Whilst there are many differences between the two, the two do have many links.

    Forget about using labels Left and Right; it's a distraction. Neither am I claiming Hitler was a democratic socialist by modern standards. That would be "shite".

    When you compare the two in terms of how they operated in practice, you'll find many similarities indeed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,656 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr



    "Forget about using labels Left and Right; it's a distraction."


    Again


    Tells people not to use labels, constantly harps in about "the left"


    🙄



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,949 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    It's the weirdest example of Godwin's law I have ever seen....



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,612 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The same people will then go on to tell you that we can't judge those in the past by today's standards with a straight face.

    Post edited by ancapailldorcha on

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    In discussing Hitler / Stalin, it's best to avoid Left and Right, and to focus on how the ideologies were implemented in practice.

    There, you will find many similarities - and it's not a coincidence those similarities exist, either.



  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 77,656 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Back on topic everyone



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Co-founder of Extinction Rebellion appearing to debate Nigel Farage on Talking Pints tonight, in about 20 minutes.

    Should be quite a debate!

    (PS. I'm in favour of wearing green political clothes, and I'm not a climate denier, just for the record!)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,573 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Hitler wasn't a left winger by any standards, never mind modern and if there's any comparable line to be drawn between him an Stalin is that both were totalitarian dictators who weren't shy about knocking off undesirables en masse. But that's about where it ends. Both men were very different and they regimes the headed were quite different too.

    You appear to be desperately trying to trying to link Fascism to Marxism, which is ludicrous to anyone that's actually spent a bit of time studying it. Fascism/Nazisim arose as an answer to rising left wing European Socialism. It wasn't "seeded" from it as a natural offshoot of the same thing, which is how you are trying to frame it. It was borne from a desire to oppose it. Both ideologies were created to combat Marxism, Socialism and Communism. But they weren't something that was in step with it in any way and its wellspring was from conservatism, especially in the case of Hitler and the NSDAP who were wholly desirous of conserving Germanic traditions, albeit under a Nationalistic revolution.

    As to whether both men were "collectivists" means nothing. Most countries were/are collectivist to a degree. None are completely based on individualism. That type of a society just doesn't exist. Britain during the war was probably just as "collectivist" as Germany was, both that doesn't mean that both nations were the exact same.

    But I would argue that Hitler was more of a "Nationalist" rather than a "Collectivist" and in actual fact was pretty in favour of privatisation where he thought fit which further puts a dent in that idea. In the 1930's he went about reversing a number of industries that had been nationalised under the Weimar Republic as a response to the 1929 crash. Even during the war, they never took full control over the nation's industry. The likes of Heinkel and Messerschmitt remained in private hands, for instance, when they could have been fully nationalised. They had to compete with other firms for contracts and retained their individual power to run its business as it saw fit.

    You really do have a hard time with comparisons, don't you.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,296 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Telegraph Business article (paywalled) but insinuating Andrew Neil might not return to GB News due to their pushing more to be like Fox News.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Anyway, waiting for Eskimo to spin it.... This article exists unlike the Rashford one.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I thought that the Fox News-style approach was the intended plan to begin with!?

    That said, if Neil is to go, that would be disappointing given the weight of journalistic experience he brings to the table. It would also be an admission that you turned out to be right, and I turned out to be wrong.

    If GB News is to metamorphose into a Fox News equivalent, I'm not displeased by that. We'll have to see what form it takes. At least it suggests that GB News is here to stay - at least for now.

    (...to answer Tony EH briefly, you must know that history is an ongoing argument of interpretation based on the best available evidence. I can understand your interpretation and can certainly acknowledge some of the valid points made, but it's surprising that you fail to see any merit whatsoever in my interpretation of the question. But, as that line of discussion has since been proscribed, that's all I can say for now).



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,612 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Yeah, that was always going to happen once the complete lack of any significant viewing base became apparent.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,573 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    (...to answer Tony AH briefly, you must know that history is an ongoing argument of interpretation based on the best available evidence. I can understand your interpretation and can certainly acknowledge some of the valid points made, but it's surprising that you fail to see any merit whatsoever in my interpretation of the question. But, as that line of discussion has since been proscribed, that's all I can say for now).

    Your "interpretation" of history is skewed by your desire to have a go at "the left", which is why it fails.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    We must park our disagreement there, as per the ukase passed by Beasty. But suffice to say that some of my interpretation was not accurately depicted, perhaps not deliberately. Best to see the two ideologies as a Venn diagram, with an overlap central that should not be ignored nor explained away. Certainly not dismissed ab initio. But that's an argument for another day.

    Andrew Neil gone. Disappointing, y'all proved me wrong!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,573 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Fine. I didn't see the mod's note.

    As for Andrew Neil, I can't say that I'd be surprised at all if and when he does go. But it's probably wiser for him to get out now than hang around any longer. However, if he'd been wise in the first place he wouldn't have got on board at all. It was a remarkable failure of insight on his behalf.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The fact a tv station is already trying to rebrand itself(within two weeks of launching) while it struggles to get viewers... That doesn't indicate they're here to stay, it's because they're struggling and they're failing. They really messed up in terms of research in terms of determining if there really was an audience for the channel...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,429 ✭✭✭Morgans




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Mistakes were made, that's for sure.

    If it were me, I'd have radicalized the shows to make them sufficiently distinguishable from one another. One of the problems currently, in my view, is that almost all shows blend together too much; a kind of media pasteurization. Each show / set of shows should offer a distinct product - with a distinct look, sound, impression etc. What you discuss in a morning show shouldn't match the theme of what is discussed at night. The audience is different, and will have different expectations.

    Second, I would have chosen a more impressive selection of staff. Sure, some of the presenters are smart and well-spoken and present pretty well. But more hard hitters should have been hired. Think of how Farage, whether you hate him or not, gets results. That doesn't mean we should select anyone for the sake of viewers, but it does mean that investing in those that deliver results matters. I wouldn't hire anyone like Hopkins or Yiannopoulos. You need credibility, not cretins.

    Third, if I were any of the presenters of GB News, I'd limit any language that closes off the population. To give one example: overusing the word "woke" does not persuade anyone of a different opinion. It comes across as arrogant and dismissive. Better to engage with opposing views and limit, as much as possible, labels such as "woke", to persuade others of a different opinion. Especially for a broadcast station set on growth.

    Fourth, there should be no technical errors after 3-months on air. Standards matter, and people always buy standards. Not enough QC / QA was done to ensure that things progressed faster than they should have. There's no excuse for that, it's inefficiency that has gotten away with it. GB News would do well to invest in a proven and established team in this area. You cannot take risks like this when first impressions matter!

    Anyway, I could go on, but these are just some of the suggestions that I wish GB News took on board.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,221 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    To your points about suggestions for improvements.

    Not quite sure that you mean "radicalise" in it's most typical usage when you use that word , I take you to mean differentiate and create clear "branding" for each show or group of shows - Morning , Afternoon , Night etc.

    The challenge with that approach is the extreme lack of "anchors" for that , they don't have the heavyweights available to lead each segment which leads to your second point.

    They got the best staff available to them , no one with any real journalistic chops would touch them with a barge pole and I'm certain that the few with any News name recognition are deeply regretting their decision to join them.

    Thus far , the silly terminology like "Anti-Woke" etc. IS their identity ,it was all over their pre-launch output etc..

    This likely explains the current flailing around in an effort to re-brand.

    Your point about Technical and procedural competence is well made and blindingly obvious. As I understand it a lot of the problems were down to the fact that they decided to use a new and largely untested software application to automate most of the studio activity to allow them to run with less staff. This strategy has failed badly.

    They also have the same issue with the off-camera staff at the on-camera ones - Those with experience and industry recognition won't go near them so they just don't have the sort of experienced producers, directors etc. that they need.

    The reported shift to a "Fox News" style just can't work in the UK. The Ofcom rules around balance etc. mean that they simply cannot replicate the Fox Opinion model.

    There just isn't a clear path for them here.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    The one thing I always thought was a bit odd was Neil announcing his "break" near the end of June and then, within a couple of weeks, Farage arriving on board. And always the question in the back of my mind, why wasn't Farage there to begin with? Whether he does return or not, it's always seemed obvious to me that Farage has been a big sticking point between Neil and other senior figures at the station. Basically, Neil wanted nothing to do with him, but was overruled after initially getting his way and is now in a big sulk and not likely to ever come back. Just my $0.02 anyway.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭Ahwell


    Britain’s broadcasting laws would never allow "the Fox News-style approach". Fox news only exists in the US because Reagan got rid of the FCC fairness doctrine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,974 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    I wouldn't be so sure about that.

    There's a reason why Johnson wanted to give Paul Dacre (Former Daily Mail Editor) the head job at OffCom and why even though an interview board rejected him, he's still in the hunt apparently.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭Ahwell


    Someone an interview panel deemed unanimously to be "unappointable" is still in the running? We really are living in interesting times. Would this be more of this "common sense conservatism"?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭Tyrone212




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,296 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    It's why it's so telling that Piers Morgan hasn't joined. He'd fit right in and would definitely boost their ratings, but even he likely sees that it's a channel that will drag him down more than he can build them up.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,612 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The other issue I see on that front would be his salary. He knows they need him more than he needs them so he'd be demanding commensurate compensation as a result.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,296 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Yeah. He'd bring in decent ratings but would be looking for a decent-sized pay packet.

    Farage brings in decent numbers too, but they probably just pay him what he would have gotten for doing his Cameo videos.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,307 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    You see theres your problem you seem to think fox news is journalism while by their own admission they are an entertainment channel. Why would Neil who as you say has a weight of journalistic experience stick around if it was to become an entertainment channel?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Farage will be the only one to walk away from this whole enterprise in the black here; he's a jobbing polemic at this stage, happy to take those appearance fees, drop a few of the Greatest Hits then walk on to the next gig. He has no political mandate anymore, with a debatable critical-mass of popular support.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 326 ✭✭hirondelle


    You want a Fox News type channel, but you don't want the type of people that Fox News would employ. You need to check your political compass as well as (dare I say it to a "common sense" conservative) your logic.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Neil is involved in the entertainment industry, too. His interviews and style is entertaining for many, including his humour when hosting that late-night BBC news show. The line is blurred between entertainment and news on many of these shows. They're not incompatible factors.



  • Site Banned Posts: 20,685 ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    So gave it a few mins this morn. Compared and breaks to sky.


    Sky, various supermarkets, their own sports channel, rival telecom/media company,


    GBnews, kitchen counter top place, one of the commemorative coin scams and postcode lottery.


    They're not making anything on ads if that's what they're pulling in.



    Anyway, the hosts. Like a watered down newsround with worse production. Presenters didn't seem to know where the camera was and seemed to be looking at something else the whole time and has a bit of partridge about him



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    How is it possible to take your review seriously when it's based on "...a few mins this morning".

    Clearly, you went in searching for problems only to use that as an excuse to post here.

    Biased nonsense masquerading as objectivity.

    Whilst there have been technical issues (which I spoke about in an earlier post), it doesn't make the channel unwatchable at this stage.

    I'd recommend tuning into Farage tonight at 7pm.

    Speaking of which, he retweeted his performance statistics yesterday from the Daily Express.




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Don't be a hypocrite. Don't accuse others of bias, when your own desire for GB News to be a success is pretty transparent by the effusive praise, while ignoring the clear statistics speaking towards failure, or quoting a notedly biased Newspaper to back up your desire for a positive narrative. Sauce for the goose.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 636 ✭✭✭noelfirl



    Jesus Christ. Can we at least try and correct the click-bait nonsense headline to something vaguely approaching reality:

    "GB News viewing figures: The 'staggering' impact Nigel Farage has had on one slot on the news channel, some days, but not all".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,656 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Why doesn't he retweet when the figures are shìt, which is most days?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Perhaps even if for humorous reasons, Farage should don his British cultural coat whilst presenting at least one show on GB News.

    It'd be interesting to see how triggered his opponents would get! Twitter would light up.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,656 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Why would people give a shìt about him wearing a manky green/brown coat?


    You're seriously just posting any old shìte now.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Because that coat was formerly a staple of the gentleman's wardrobe; and Farage tries to convey to the public that sense of Conservatism.

    As I said, I wasn't being wholly serious; it's not going to happen.

    Simply a tongue-in-cheek remark that for many who despise Farage, and who view his politics as something that belongs in the past, they would be very irked if he wore that symbolic coat on his show.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    People only get outraged about coats when there's a left wing politician the papers have to smear. Farage wearing a big heavy coat while presenting a show in a studio would just be....weird.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,656 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    No, they really wouldn't , I live in England and have never seen anyone wearing something like that (maybe it's a London thing) but if I did see someone wearingnit I wouldn't look twice.


    You really don't have a clue about the British do you? Is this an Obama/Tan suit moment you're trying to go for?



  • Posts: 5,869 [Deleted User]


    WTF is a cultural coat when it's at home?

    And why would only Conservatives wear one?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Of course nobody (or very few) wears that style of coat anymore.

    That's the point I'm making; it's a throwback to a fashion of old. Perhaps over a century ago it was far more commonplace.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,656 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    And this has what to do with GB "news" and it's shìt ratings?


    You're like a parody of the station right now, nothing substantial to talk about so just waffling on to fill the long minutes.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,296 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    But why do you think anyone would care if he did, never mind "triggering" people or "lighting up Twitter"? I mean, Jacob Rees-Mogg dresses and acts like a 16th Century undertaker and bar making jokes about it, no one really cares.

    If Farage wore that coat, my only question would be: Why is he wearing such a big coat inside?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Cultural coats? What?

    I mean sure, Farage could wear muttonchops and a tricorn hat if we're pulling out fashions of yore; for all the relevance it has to this thread's topic. Yes, he has a style that's very Old School English Gent but ... so what? Like much of Farage, it's just a facade to impress types that might flock to that nostalgic shallowness. If there's some insinuation his coat "triggers" the great Unwashed Leftists hordes, this thread truly is circling the drain for GB News things to talk about.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,949 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    So the point you're making is?

    That Farage should wear a coat that is @100yrs out of date, to "trigger" the lefties? While illustrating his idealogical purity and adherence to ideas that went out of political reality a 100yrs ago?

    The coat is shorthand for archaic ideas and that plebs should resume their place and doff their caps?

    The coat means nothing to me, I'm trying to get my head round what you think it means?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Some people would be triggered because some on the left will associate that style of dress (you could include JR Mogg style, too) with nostalgic politics.

    Cultural coats get under the skin of some on the Left. Just think about how JR Mogg is routinely derided!

    It's also why many news outlets before the referendum campaign started talking about Farage's coat and what it meant.

    Anyway, as you say, it's not going to happen - but my tongue-in-cheek remark was that I wished it would happen, if only to get under the skin of the same kind of people that mock Mogg.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,612 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    So, we've still not abandoned the silly idea that the Farage show's barely existant viewer based can be used to tout GB News as a roaring success then. According to that Express link, he's not even got 110,000 viewers. He beat his competition on the BBC and Sky News channels but that's meaningless. If he's the best GB News have got in a country where over a hundred times as many people voted Brexit and 43% voted for Boris Johnson's English Nationalist Tory party then they're done.

    Talk of triggering is just the latest in a series of deflections from this simple truth.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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