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General Rugby Discussion 3

2456792

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,066 ✭✭✭Richie_Rich89


    If not being ignorant is the bar then a lot of analysts would be out of a job. Stringer didn't seem to know the rules around offside had changed when they were debating that Cooney try against Leinster last season.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,767 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    I think I may have seen the most Internet take on racism yet here. If he didn't know there was a racial difference he was still being racist. How can someone be racist without being aware of their being a race thing to be racist about?


    Franno said a(nother) dumb thing. He's said so many at this stage that they were always bound to catch up with him eventually. This is what happens when you spout crap as a rule. Eventually you'll say the wrong thing about the wrong person.


    I dont think he intended to mock anyone's actual skin colour, but thats what he ended up doing and paid the price.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,229 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    If that’s his defence; then the simple rebuttal is:

    His job is rugby, to be unaware of a players background but to throw out a comment like that anyway shows up a seriously unprofessional level of ignorance.


    if that’s his defence - then it begs the question of how he was in the job to begin with



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,767 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Many have been asking that question for years. He's always tried to be witty in a derogatory way. Being the big man by demeaning and name calling. I actually don't believe he meant to be racist. But as I said above, you can only play that schtick for so long before you say the wrong thing about the wrong person or at the wrong time. If he's happy to play at that game though he needs to accept the consequences of it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,483 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    "even his apology is stupid, he should have said clearly that he didn’t realise he was half Filipino and thought it was fake and left it at that."


    Absolutely, had to go all in on the 'fool rather than knave' defence'




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Quade Cooper... remember him?!

    He's back in the Aussie squad for the Bledisloe Cup 4 years after his last international appearance



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,273 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    Good podcast by RTE on the 1981 Ireland tour to South Africa.


    It's called Crossing The Line


    https://podcasts.apple.com/ie/podcast/documentary-on-one-podcast/id107923803



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,387 ✭✭✭OldRio


    I see Jamie Cudmore has been found out.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I think we always knew he was a POS....he's just let the whole world know now...



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,303 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Is the situation he's commenting on related to the coach of the women's 7s team? From what I had read it's all a bit off a mess. Players accused him of abusive behavior, an investigation cleared him. Then you have other players saying it was actually players who were abusive.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,625 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Yup. Situation is a total mess, but he's still an idiot for sending those comments and deservedly gone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,903 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    What channel is the Rugby Championship on this year? Is it available in Ireland and UK?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Complete misreading of the post,

    Rugby championship is on Sky as normal,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,011 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    I think RSVP.ie might need a new sub editor.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    "The men's Australian rugby sevens team has been reprimanded and several players compelled to undertake alcohol counselling as a result of the investigation into drunken behaviour on their return flight home from the Olympic games"

    Already reports that funding could be withdrawn, or curtailed for Sevens Rugby



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23 22meehoovereinenschaft22


    I heard that the Aussies and Kiwis have pulled out of the 2021 World Cup, and forced its rescheduling to next year.


    They only really care about the NRL.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,741 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23 22meehoovereinenschaft22


    That, along with the Men's and Physical Disability tournaments.

    Organisers have said it will be the ''most inclusive'' World Cup ever staged.

    The Aussie clubs throwing everyone else under the bus with their club-focused mindset...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,066 ✭✭✭Richie_Rich89


    They're holding the women's World Cup at the same time as the men's, are they? Rugby league has always been a more inclusive sport than union.

    Didn't Billy Boston go to play for Wigan initially because of the lack of an offer from Cardiff - potentially because of the colour of his skin?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23 22meehoovereinenschaft22


    And the wheelchair/physical disability WC as well.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,066 ✭✭✭Richie_Rich89


    Mmmm, yeah. Spain probably won't be invited to take part.

    Any players to watch out for in the women's competition?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23 22meehoovereinenschaft22


    Tamika Upton is a No. 1 who has a lot of pace and long-range try-scoring ability.

    The one I'd highlight though is Ali Brigginshaw. Best women's player in the world for a few seasons now, and she'd slot seamlessly into many men's sides.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,066 ✭✭✭Richie_Rich89


    Oh, yeah. I've heard of Brigginshaw. Isn't she a member of the LGBTQIA+ community?

    Not sure about her slotting in seamlessly to men's sides. What level are you thinking of? Super League level? That is pretty low quality compared to the NRL, I suppose.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23 22meehoovereinenschaft22


    Yeah, Brigginshaw is a lesbian. Pretty great player, whether controlling in the halves or operating as a ball-playing middle option at loose forward - à la Sean O'Loughlin.

    She'd go well in the Super League and would handle the Celtic League and Rainbow Cup as well, I feel.

    Hope the World Cup goes ahead next year, and she gets to play on the world stage...



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,625 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    She wouldn't. She would be annihilated in any professional male league.


    Anyway, the Aus/NZ team unwillingness to travel is a reflection on their view of the sport and their own domestic situation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23 22meehoovereinenschaft22


    I'd like to see her in the Super League, tbh. I think she'd offer as much - if not more - than a flaky show-pony like Luke Gale.

    True enough, but it is a ''view of the sport'' from NRL-focused administrators such as Vlandis, Richardson and Beattie. The players overwhelmingly (85%) want to play on the international stage, and there are rumours that Joey Manu is weighing up a move to NZ rugby union and that Viliame Kikau might be headed to French rugby union. And, of course, RTS is aiming to take part in the upcoming NZ rugby union tour. There may be an element of running scared from the Kangaroos as well. They have only won two out of their four internationals since the 2017 World Cup final. Losing to Tonga again is not something they would want!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,767 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Some big things in here.....brought in at grassroots in England so far.


    Hi all please find attached a summary of the law changes for 2021-2022:


    Summary of Law changes 2021-2022

    50:22

    If the team in possession kicks the ball from inside their own half indirectly into touch inside their opponents’ 22, they will throw into the resultant lineout. The ball cannot be passed or carried back into the defensive half for the 50:22 to be played. The phase must originate inside the defensive half.

    The basic idea here is to ensure defending teams drop more players into the backfield to guard against potentially conceding line-outs inside their own 22. That would naturally mean fewer defenders in the frontline and more space for the attack. The trial law came about with safety in mind – if there are fewer defenders in the frontline, the defence’s line speed may be reduced and collisions might be less frequent and less impactful.


    GOAL LINE DROP-OUT

    If the ball is held up in in-goal, if there is a knock-on from an attacking player in in-goal or an attacking kick is grounded by the defenders in their own in-goal, then play restarts with a goal line drop-out anywhere along the goal line.


    FLYING WEDGE

    The three or more player, pre-bound pod, or flying wedge, is now outlawed. The sanction will be a penalty kick.


    1 MAN LATCH

    The one-player latch will still be permitted, but this player will now have the same responsibilities as a first arriving player (i.e. must stay on feet, enter through the gate and not fall to the floor). The sanction will be a penalty kick.


    CLEANOUT AND SAFETY OF THE JACKLER

    Any player who attempts a clean out which targets or drops weight onto the lower limbs of another player will now be penalised.


    Scrums

    A scrum will only be awarded for a knock-on. For a knock on over the goal line, a goal line drop out will be awarded.

    No pre-engagement / axial loading. Hookers must have a “brake” foot on bind to help stability. Sanction – Free Kick.

    For an offence where a scrum is normally awarded (e.g forward pass) a TAP and PASS is the mandatory action to restart.

    Teams must be given time to retire 10 metres. A scrum cannot be chosen at any penalty or free kick.


    LINE-OUT

    A lineout will consist of a thrower, a maximum of 7 players in the line and a receiver.

    Lineout / Maul – No players can join the maul who are not already in the line-out.

    Players must stay back 10 metres until the line-out finishes but cannot join the maul. Sanction – Penalty.

    For ‘Not Straight’ at a line-out there will be no scrum option.


    RUCK

    When referee calls “Ruck” no other player can join the ruck​.

    When the ball is playable referees will immediately shout “use it” and the attacking team will have 5 seconds to move the ball away from the contact area​.


    MAULS

    Only one movement in any direction.

    Referees will shout “use it” when the maul stops.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,934 ✭✭✭Captain_Crash


    Wow some big changes there! And some very sensible ones too! Is this only at grassroots in England or is it brought into the professions game?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,767 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    There are 5 of the changes coming into the pro game, the rest are amateur only for now. Not sure if it's just England yet as only heard about the above this morning.


    The 5 changes coming into the pro game are:

    50:22

    Flying Wedge

    1 man latch

    Goal line drop outs

    Protecting the jackler


    The 1 man latch is possibly a big one. Up to now multiple players could latch and flop to the ground when the ball carrier did. This was effectively a legal way for multiple players to seal off. Thats now gone. Only 1 can latch and he must stay on his feet when the ball carrier goes to ground. This can open more of a contest at the ruck which should encourage teams to play the ball more rather than getting caught out at the ruck.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,367 ✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    Its a global law trial. In place at all levels of the game here and globally. Professional and amateur levels from under 13 up to pro level



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,934 ✭✭✭Captain_Crash


    I knew of the 50:22 and goal line drop out ones but the scrum and maul changes are good (in my former FB view😝) . No option to select scrum from a pen is sensible in my view



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,625 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Seems to me like a lot of changes that will result in even more 13 man defensive lines, with potentially even more athletic props in them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,517 ✭✭✭swiwi_


    The 1 man latch was penalised in the NZ vs Australia game last weekend.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,367 ✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    50:22 should see the opposite and removing some of the scrums and more ball in play time should help the game no?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,205 ✭✭✭✭Sangre


    I like the sound of a lot of those rules but really can't see how the new rules for being held up over the line encourages attacking rugby.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,934 ✭✭✭Captain_Crash


    I’d agree, I’ve personally always been a fan of the tension that situation can cause! Now with a drop out being awarded the sting is immediately taken out of the situation



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,492 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Scrums

    A scrum will only be awarded for a knock-on. For a knock on over the goal line, a goal line drop out will be awarded.

    No pre-engagement / axial loading. Hookers must have a “brake” foot on bind to help stability. Sanction – Free Kick.

    For an offence where a scrum is normally awarded (e.g forward pass) a TAP and PASS is the mandatory action to restart.

    Teams must be given time to retire 10 metres. A scrum cannot be chosen at any penalty or free kick.

    This is a bit unclear - Scrums only for knock-ons?

    Does that include unplayable ball in a ruck or a stopped maul.

    For a crooked throw does that mean you now only have the option for a tap and go?

    I get the desire to speed the game up , but that's just utter nonsense and a fundamental change to a core component of the game - If that persisted we'll just end up with those League style abominations instead of actual scrums , no more push-over tries or anything.

    Just crazy.

    I'm also not a fan of the 50:22 thing or the Goal Line drop out.

    The other changes make some sense though , but as with all these changes we'll have to see what the unintended consequences are.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,787 ✭✭✭Nermal


    The contest at the ruck is what is causing teams to refuse to pass the ball.

    If you don't have a very high likelihood of retaining possession, why risk a pass, tackle & ruck? Just kick it away, and make your opponent take the risk.

    The more contestable the ruck becomes, the less passing and running you'll see.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,492 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    As I think about it more , it also removes the ability for a team to use the scrum to build pressure.

    Prop gets penalised for collapsing , scrum again , another penalty , then maybe a card for a 3rd offence etc.

    Just completely and utterly removes the scrum as any kind of tactical component from the game - Horrendous idea.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,625 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Should do yes, though it will become irrelevant in the oppo half.


    Obivously the Boks took the piss, but fewer scrums and more ball in play time is going to see lighter props. No-one joining a ruck after its called will just see all the defenders stretching across the field and now there will be less obvious heavy forward mismatches.

    I am, perhaps, being overly negative but they are big changes



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,835 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    I think it should force teams to go for a touchdown of they're sure of making it rather than having 20 pick and goes. More incentive to pull the defence apart with passes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    Are these ELV’s or full law changes? Some might help but the scrum ones are fairly drastic and fundamentally change the nature of the game.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,367 ✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    Theyre law trials for season but most should be confirmed as full changes after the season unless something major comes up that didnt in the initial trials they held with them in play





  • I'd speculate that the scrum changes are a reaction to that France v Wales game a few years ago.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,492 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    The ruck change about no one joining after a ruck is called will mean that it's far more likely for a ruck to end in unplayable ball as the ability to join and shift/clear out a player obstructing the ball is gone.

    And along with the scrum change that just means more tap and go free kicks - So more and more like Rugby league.

    Just no no no.

    I like the change in the clear-out, but equally if they just applied the laws that exist today they could solve that without need for additional changes.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,303 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    No Scrubs from penalties is daft, what about the option of setting up an attacking scrum inside the 22 to try and score off of? A terrible idea in my opinion



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,492 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    There are far better and easier ways to deal with those scenarios that don't involve almost completely eradicating the scrum from the game.

    Simple one - Set a maximum number of consecutive scrums resulting from scrum offences, maybe 4?

    After that you have to take the penalty/free kick , the option of scrum is taken away.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,625 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    MLR only allows one scrum reset before a free kick/penalty is given.

    Thinking back to games such as when England scrummed Australia into the dirt in the RWC SF in 07. Removing that possibility is terrible to me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,944 ✭✭✭✭mfceiling


    Ah the old "5 seconds" to use it rule again .

    Ball at the back of a ruck.

    Scrum half hunched over for about 10 seconds.

    Ref "use it now 9"

    Another 10 seconds pass.

    Scrum half looks up.

    Another 5 seconds pass.

    Finally scrum half box kicks it.


    I'd love to see this rule being properly reffed.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,625 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I've taken to counting in my head every time the ref calls use it. They do actually tend to use it at around the 5 second mark..but 5 seconds is just quite along time.

    This will be the death of the stupid human centipede rucks but there must be a better way of doing that.



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